Save Gox - page 5. | Bitcointalksearch.org

dogechode

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

Quote from: clownius on April 18, 2014, 06:25:09 AM

Corporations dont work that way. You can single out one person is responsible for all losses and leave it at that. For starters every company in trouble would just find a scapegoat with no means to pay the debts and walk away from them on a regular basis and keep operating.

Theft may see him in jail but failures cant and wont. IF we went that way if you made a mistake at work would you go "rot in jail" for it?

I agree with most of what you said but you are wrong about one thing - if you are in a very high position in a company like director or higher, you actually can be held responsible for failures due to incompetence/negligence. There is real precedent for this (at least in the US.) So yes, you could go to jail. I think there is a strong argument that Mark could be found both negligent and incompetent.

OhShei8e

legendary

Activity: 1792

Merit: 1059

Quote from: Nagle on April 18, 2014, 12:51:17 AM

The criminal investigation is more promising. That money went somewhere, and the bankruptcy trustee's job is to find out where and get it back. Now that the Tokyo police and the Tokyo district court both suspect an inside job, and Karpeles has been fired, I suspect there will be progress.

Current status:

Community: 200,000 BTC and the malleability lie detected.

Court and lawyers: None.

clownius

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 254

Quote from: Light on April 18, 2014, 02:26:01 AM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on April 18, 2014, 01:14:38 AM

What is wrong in that? Why should they compensate the Gox customers? No one will spend BTC450k to acquire Gox. Gox customers should be compensated by Mark Kerpeles, not the new owner. Even if Mark K is kicked out of Gox, his responsibility does not end there. But the new owners should distribute the 200k stash which Mt Gox is possessing to the customers.

They'd be better off spending that simply creating a new exchange and jumping through all of the legal hoops. IMO, there should be no imperative for any new owners to have to compensate for the failure/theft by Karpeles, he should take complete and utter responsibility and pay his dues either by returning the BTC or rotting in jail. Honestly though, even if there is an audit and new owners I'm doubtful it'll ever be restored to a point where it once was - there has been way to much negative media and stigma associated with Gox now.

Corporations dont work that way. You can single out one person is responsible for all losses and leave it at that. For starters every company in trouble would just find a scapegoat with no means to pay the debts and walk away from them on a regular basis and keep operating.

Theft may see him in jail but failures cant and wont. IF we went that way if you made a mistake at work would you go "rot in jail" for it?

freedombit

sr. member

Activity: 274

Merit: 250

Quote

Hi everyone, my name is John Betts, ...

I would like to begin a dialogue with you...

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to reach out.

Best regards,
JB

Hi John, can you be more clear on this statement?

Quote

Our group would like to begin this due diligence immediately. Only then will we know the extent of the risks and the capital required to rebuild the business.

Once the valuation is completed, our goals are to:

Remove the information vacuum by disclosing in a timely fashion what happened to the missing Bitcoins, the true status of MtGox assets and by providing creditors with audited statements of their balances.

In particular, I am interested in the "Once the valuation is completed" statement. It appears that you wish to have your group investigate the data, then "value" the entity, and after that you will "remove the information vacuum".

A HERO individual or company would approach it like this:

First, remove the information vacuum.
Then begin the due diligence.
Let the market value the company.

In fact, if there are any takers for this approach, PM me.

Light

hero member

Activity: 742

Merit: 502

Circa 2010

Quote from: bryant.coleman on April 18, 2014, 01:14:38 AM

What is wrong in that? Why should they compensate the Gox customers? No one will spend BTC450k to acquire Gox. Gox customers should be compensated by Mark Kerpeles, not the new owner. Even if Mark K is kicked out of Gox, his responsibility does not end there. But the new owners should distribute the 200k stash which Mt Gox is possessing to the customers.

They'd be better off spending that simply creating a new exchange and jumping through all of the legal hoops. IMO, there should be no imperative for any new owners to have to compensate for the failure/theft by Karpeles, he should take complete and utter responsibility and pay his dues either by returning the BTC or rotting in jail. Honestly though, even if there is an audit and new owners I'm doubtful it'll ever be restored to a point where it once was - there has been way to much negative media and stigma associated with Gox now.

freedombit

sr. member

Activity: 274

Merit: 250

Quote from: OhShei8e on April 17, 2014, 03:16:14 PM

Without a comment half a million coins are missing. That's completely crazy.

Or LAZY.

freedombit

sr. member

Activity: 274

Merit: 250

Quote from: Velkro on April 17, 2014, 12:11:28 PM

too much money was lost

Site your source. All I know is MtGox claims to have lost the money. They have claimed a lot of things though, and with every statement they make they seem to loose more credibility.

So again, do we know that the "money was lost?"

freedombit

sr. member

Activity: 274

Merit: 250

Quote from: odolvlobo on April 17, 2014, 01:10:08 PM

Returning as much fiat and bitcoins as possible to account holders is one thing, but saving Mt. Gox itself is completely unnecessary and counterproductive. Do people feel that Mt. Gox is too big to fail?

Opinion:

MtGox can fail, and Bitcoin can go on. However, there are supposedly 750k Bitcoin missing. If the "missing" coin cannot be followed to their final resting place and the Bitcoin community doesn't know who has them, then the entire Bitcoin ecosystem appears as tainted as any FIAT. There is more than MATH dictating the distribution. It is politics.

If the "missing" coins are clearly identified and the Bitcoin community in general agrees, then we might get somewhere positive. If the coin is returned, then the community does quite well.

It is about trust in each other - regardless of how much "trustless" is built into Bitcoin. Eventually, somewhere along the line, people must trust. Most of you trust that the power won't go out.

This is how I feel as a relatively early promoter of crypto-currency and Bitcoin specifically.

bryant.coleman

legendary

Activity: 3752

Merit: 1217

Quote from: Nagle on April 18, 2014, 12:51:17 AM

This is a terrible acquisition offer. They're not proposing to take over the company and put enough money in to pay everyone off. No, they want to pay back customers from a share of "future profits".

What is wrong in that? Why should they compensate the Gox customers? No one will spend BTC450k to acquire Gox. Gox customers should be compensated by Mark Kerpeles, not the new owner. Even if Mark K is kicked out of Gox, his responsibility does not end there. But the new owners should distribute the 200k stash which Mt Gox is possessing to the customers.

Nagle

legendary

Activity: 1204

Merit: 1002

This is a terrible acquisition offer. They're not proposing to take over the company and put enough money in to pay everyone off. No, they want to pay back customers from a share of "future profits".

The criminal investigation is more promising. That money went somewhere, and the bankruptcy trustee's job is to find out where and get it back. Now that the Tokyo police and the Tokyo district court both suspect an inside job, and Karpeles has been fired, I suspect there will be progress.

Kyraishi

hero member

Activity: 952

Merit: 513

savegox.com ?
and who's gonna savegoxusers.com ? ..

clownius

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 254

I have very little to loose at this point and only upside if it works.........

OhShei8e

legendary

Activity: 1792

Merit: 1059

Quote from: His Most Eminent Highness Grand Caesar Imperator Goat link=topic=574759.msg6268078#msg6268078

They have a site set up at savegox.com

I'm not sure this will work but I like the idea of it. Getting rid of Mark and having a professional audit by people who care about BTC seems like a better path than what is on offer. Anyway open to your ideas and feedback.

I joined. Take any straw even at the risk to be cheated again. Without a comment half a million coins are missing. That's completely crazy. Imagine the Louvre would be robbed down to the last picture. They would then declare oneself bankrupt, but no one would ask where the pictures are. Unimaginable.

Okay, Bitcoins are not art paintings, but much easier to track.

dogechode

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

Didn't Japan just announced that they were blocking the attempt to liquidate/rehabilitate Mt. Gox? Can this still be done despite that announcement? If Mark is out of the picture I think it's a good idea, if he is involved in any way, shape, or form, I think it's a terrible idea.

RocketSingh

legendary

Activity: 1662

Merit: 1050

So Mark is trying to liquidate the asset to save his ass. Does it going to account for the lost coin & fiat at Mt. Gox ?

ebliever

legendary

Activity: 1708

Merit: 1036

Quote from: odolvlobo on April 17, 2014, 01:10:08 PM

Returning as much fiat and bitcoins as possible to account holders is one thing, but saving Mt. Gox itself is completely unnecessary and counterproductive. Do people feel that Mt. Gox is too big to fail?

It already did fail, and bitcoin has survived pretty much just fine. So much for TBTF.

casinocoin

legendary

Activity: 849

Merit: 1050

CasinoCoin

Im going to have to agree that this could be good..
Only if they do it the right way and remove any viruses from the company(mark, and the incompetent security team)

You are right, bankruptcy will only protect mark.
Gox was once the biggest exchange, and I could see it coming back with the right leadership and transparent business practices.
(Yes it is too big to fail IMO another exchange should have shot up, but that never happened)

odolvlobo

legendary

Activity: 4438

Merit: 3387

Returning as much fiat and bitcoins as possible to account holders is one thing, but saving Mt. Gox itself is completely unnecessary and counterproductive. Do people feel that Mt. Gox is too big to fail?

QuestionAuthority

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1393

You lead and I'll watch you walk away.

One thing worries me a little in his statement, "new exchange through a combination of equity interest and revenue share." Does he expect more Bitcoin users to come forward and pour more money down that gopher hole or is he offering equity interest in the new company to the current losers as recompense for their losses? In other words, if Gox owed you 1000 Bitcoins then you have a 1% share, if Gox owed you 500 Bitcoins then you have .5 % share, etc.

El Cabron

vip

Activity: 840

Merit: 1000

Quote from: esse83 on April 17, 2014, 12:33:16 PM

Quote from: El Cabron on April 17, 2014, 12:24:14 PM

Quote from: esse83 on April 17, 2014, 12:20:46 PM

"Any appreciation in the value of bitcoins would be lost because of conversion of MtGox's 200,000 recovered bitcoins to fiat currency as part of the distribution of assets."

He speaks as though this is a fact and must happen. Why would it not simply be returned to the customers. Would be a lot easier than selling it all and returning it as fiat cash to the customers.

Pretty sure when the Govt of Japan sells all the assets of Gox they will see BTC as an asset. They will sell that for fiat.

Well I would agree if the found bitcoins is actually considered MtGox assets. But this could easily be viewed as customer assets that do not belong to MtGox. If that is the case then it is not for MtGox to dispose of. In their ToS they state that they hold bitcoin on behalf of the customers. When I deposit coins to MtGox I am not thereby giving them ownership.

It's no different from a stockbroker buying on behalf of his client. MtGox is literally a middleman or a strawman between buyers and sellers. It's just a platform that have no ownership interest invested in the assets deposited by their clients.

Pretty sure Japan is going to sell all the BTC and get fiat.

Topic: Save Gox - page 5. (Read 11357 times)