Topic: SCAM - Coinabul owe me 81btc - page 14. (Read 61682 times)

This is bull. No real gold dealer would deny responsibility like this.

I had an order from APMEX go missing, in time the investigation revealed it was likely stolen from a UPS truck. APMEX had a replacement package going out before I even noticed the delivery exception. They did so PRIOR to filing THEIR insurance.

When you sell a buyer insurance it is your job to make sure the package is actually INSURED, failing that he should pay it out of pocket.

I want to buy about $20k worth of gold over the next few months and was considering Coinabul, but forget about that! His prices are so high I could just sell the bitcoins and go to the local store.

I agree based on the usage of the scammer tag that Coinabul deserves it. If they are a scammer or guilty of fraud is a much deeper question. They are definitely "guilty" of horrendous business ethics and poor business acumen. In law school the word scam always carried the the equivalency of fraud. Fraud does in fact require actual intent to deceive at the time the transaction takes place.

Laws against fraud vary from state to state, and can be criminal or civil in nature. Criminal fraud requires criminal intent on the part of the perpetrator, and is punishable by fines or imprisonment. Civil fraud, on the other hand, applies more broadly to circumstances where bad-faith is usually involved, and where the penalties are meant to punish the perpetrator and put the victim back in the same position before the fraud took place.

While the exact wording of fraud charges varies among state and federal laws. the essential elements needed to prove a fraud claim in general include: (1) a misrepresentation of a material fact; (2) by a person or entity who knows or believes it to be false; (3) to a person or entity who justifiably relies on the misrepresentation; and (4) actual injury or loss resulting from his or her reliance.

That said I do agree that Coinabul deserves the tag based on the commonly accepted usage on this board. They may be guilty of fraud itself but the burden of proof would be much higher than would be needed to label them as such with a forum tag

Ugh, another one. There's probably many more who don't want to go public...

Once a scammer, always a scammer.

I agree, I don't see what the controversy is here.

The evidence is clear in the context of basic business and ethics. Coinabul's service did not deliver a purchased product to the Buyer. Coinabul's insurance did not cover their ass from a loss. Both are entirely outside the scope of responsibility of the Buyer.

Scam?

Yes. It's illogical to say that scams require premeditated behavior. Scamming needs behavior that determinedly affects the outcome. Aside from an astounding delay of months, intentionally not giving full and due recourse is scamming.

Good businesses deliver. When problems arise, good businesses are eager to fairly settle problems. That usually means full recourse -- and often more for the inconvenience. What often separates good businesses from unreliable/scammy business is empathy. I digress. Reputation seems irrevocably lost for the foreseeable future. Relying on future delivery from a site that puts up a fight when they're clearly wrong is for future scam victims. If a site can't handle the weight, it needs to explicitly change and disclose new policies going forward. Anything less is inherently a scam.

WTF: Did anyone see this from the Reddit post?


So this is a thing? Am I reading this correctly. Coinabul both couldn't send the package and then didn't refund the entire bitcoin amount of 90.7825 BTC to the person!?

Coinabul, am I understanding this correctly?  You know for sure that the customer did not receive the product (so you know he's not scamming you), and somehow you think it's not your responsibility to fix the situation, especially when the customer paid extra for insurance?

Are you fucking high?  This is 100% on you to fix.

Scammer tag.

Wow. Coinabul is terrible. They also post private conversations. I will never buy from you.
This will get big on Reddit, I hope.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1a5cjg/coinabul_sells_silver_by_insured_mail_package_is/

I could imagine two situations where the seller does not need to reimburse or reship.

1. They made it clear that the extra BTC paid would be used to purchase insurance from another party and if the party did not accept the claim that Coinabul would not be liable to reimburse or reship.

2. The buyer in one way or another caused
 
  a. the shipment to not arrive

  b. the shipment to be delayed indefinitely e.g. not paying customs

  c. the insurance company to deny the claim

In any other situation I would assume (as a buyer) that Coinabul would reimburse the buyer upon starting (or shortly before starting) the claims process with the insurance company.

It seems that a fluctuation in the trading price of silver caused the claim to be denied. I am wondering if Coinabul could reclaim at a different price.  At what price was the insurance claim made? The price when the claim was made or the price upon shipment?

Lack of competition, maybe...

This is tough all around. No one wants to give up money plain and simple.

BUT, with that being said, Coinabul really has to see the bigger picture. This is a fourm of Bitcoin users. Last time I checked we were their target market. Why would you come here and make your company look undesirable in front of hundreds of potential customers?

Most would agree that this could have been handled differently.

I was attracted to Coinabul site a couple of times, even placed items in the cart, in the end I abandoned the carts because of the high premiums.
 
That being said, it's tough doing business in bitcoin world, hoarding is much easier. 

Margin is pretty thin. I'm in talks now with a wholesale source.

What do u think the margin for profit is here? I know the person who just about runs Merritt finicial in the us. I can look to see what it costs to buy gold from them and they hold it all in site and could use them to ship and fill the orders if there is enough room to profit.

Phil

Yes, or pay with a credit card so that you can do a chargeback.


I do agree that Coinabul won't get a scammer tag because "he's one of the boys" but at least the information is out in the open for everybody to see and to make up their own mind. He will certainly lose some customers because of this, even if he doesn't get the scammer tag.

Thats why its better to deal with companies in the same country so you can use consumer protection agencies to make them do the right thing.

Yip they are also part of the 'inner (jerk) circle'

Basically the way it works is... if you are part of the inner circle your in the clear. If you try to sell shares a day before the business goes bust, your in the clear... I could go on but we all get the point =)

I'd hate to see what happens when someone in the inner circle gets scammed... ah wait.. the scammer gets the scammer tag after 8 seconds.

I think Coinabul should send back 100% to the buyer since he shouldn't want to be a dip shit like USPS.

Let's take a hypothetical situation:

I sell something on eBay and decide to deliver it to the buyer by car. The buyer paid me for the product and gas in advance.
During the journey I decide to go get something to eat and park the car on a restaurant parking.
Some dip shit thief decides he likes my car and wants it so much he steals it while I take a shit after those delivious roasted ribs.
FFFFFFFFUUUUUU, I was supposed to deliver the thing to that guy. What should I do?

How do I prove that the theft was not set up?
How can Coinabul prove that he didn't tip the delivering company about the silver so that they can pretend it got lost and share the profits?
There is a potential for abuse in both situations, if the seller assumes responsibility as it should be, he has no incentive whatsoever to try and scam the buyer.
Otherwise I can give the 2nd car key to a friend and ask him to 'steal' it, whereas Coinabul can keep the silver and the money, at the same time maintaining an alibi because he has a tracking number.

If my car's insurance also covered whatever's inside the car I can file a claim but meanwhile I should take the responsibility for leaving the car and choosing my insurance company (in case they would try to avoid paying) and return the rightfully owned money to the buyer due to being unable to provide the delivery of the product that was promised.

I think Coinabul should send back 50% to the buyer to split the losses since the USPS are dip shits.

Edit: Or 100% if it wasn't in Coinabul's Terms of Service that any package covered by insurance that was lost in transit and not paid for by the USPS would put the buyer at fault.

I think at least 50% should be refunded either way. You're the one making profit and providing a SAFE service so you should take the fault whenever the buyer doesn't receive his product, no matter what.

Up until the item reaches the buyers hands it should be your responsibility unless stated otherwise in the Terms of Service.

So as marketing director, what is your opinion on the marketing value of this thread to Coinabul?

And based on this thread, why do you continue to associate yourself with Coinabul?

At this point, it's not (in my opinion).  Coinabul has been around since the beginning.  Anyone else get screwed?  Not me, other than some communication issues.  Havent seen any other claims?  Has there ever been one besides OP? 

While I disagree with most here about the scammer tag, I believe they are liable for the insurance mishap.  Cost of doing business unfortunately.