Topic: SCAM - Coinabul owe me 81btc - page 20. (Read 61619 times)

There's really two ways you can solve this now - getting a lawyer or hoping the Coinabul gets a scammer tag from theymos. It doesn't look like Coinabul is willing to fold otherwise.

I don't think he was trying to make a legal point or explain how much Coinabul could be forced to pay. I think he was making an equitable point. (The law roughly follows the equitable argument anyway, as it fixes dollar amounts but allows interest rates pegged to inflation, which accomplishes roughly the result of producing a currency-neutral measure.)

I agree. As cool as it would be, I wouldn't expect them to reimburse me the BTC value. BTC has increased five-fold vs USD since my order. I would only expect replacement or dollar value.

Shiftybugger, thank you for starting this thread.  I was considering using Coinabul, but the complete lack of accountability shown in Coinabul's response made me think twice.  They are not going to refund your order because you bugged them after months of not receiving anything?  Completely inappropriate response.  I'd like to get Casascius to weigh in on this, he also a lot of experience sending insured orders paid for by bitcoin and I'm sure he would refund the order in a case like this. 

No you couldnt. Legally coinabul can only be forced to settle in dollars (as they are US based), thats why its fiat money.

IANAL but Coinabul probably has the choice to either deliver the quantity of silver ordered at the time, or reimburse the original order value in dollars. But I dont see how they could be held liable for fluctuations in either silver or BTC prices.

It's just an arbitrary choice as a reasonably-stable measure of value. You could use any stable currency.

shiftybugger, it doesnt seem like coinabul is going to fold without legal action. Im also convinced the law is on your side. There was a US based lawyer offering his services on this forum not so long ago, I suggest you get in touch with him. It may not have to come to court, just a letter from a lawyer might be enough for coinabul to talk to their legal counsel and realize they will have to reimburse you one way or the other.

They do have a support email, but I wasn't getting replies from it. They say that their emails oft get eaten by spam filters, and that may be the case here - although they weren't going to my spam folder either. Either way, email was not proving effective.

Let's 'reality' this down a bit.


I'll grant you 'countless' only because I can't be sure if this is the first or second time I have received this number. You may have given it to me over IRC, I can't be sure as I didn't keep all of the logs. It isn't in any of the logs that I have. If so, this is the second time. When were the other times?


Stringing me along - 'quite possibly'. You can see that I was pushing for a decision, an ending, some finality, 'Yes' or 'No'. It wasn't forthcoming, and didn't come until I started the other thread in late February, three months after this excerpt. And the answer was, 'No'.

Nice try at making my contact seem unreasonable. Look at the timestamps. Six failed attempts (the equivalent of a missed call) over five days is hardly excessive when you are being screwed around.


Bully you? Please, I beg you, post a chat log that shows anything approaching bullying. I was never anything but polite. I'm pretty sure that the above excerpt was the most pushy that I ever got with you, and that is hardly pushy.

It seems that I'm not the only one here who thinks that it is an obligation.


I have super powers that let me know when you are at your desk?

I really think you are at least partially confusing me with someone else.
- I have contacted Coinabul TWICE via the contact page on the Coinabul website.
- I have emailed Coinabul EIGHT times total, between Jan 8 and Feb 17 as contact via IRC was difficult to establish.
- I have NEVER spoken to you on the phone or called you. I have no idea what your number is. I don't know what to say about this claim...


Dude, I live on the other side of the planet. I have a 9-5 job and kids. I have a fairly settled routine. You, however, appeared to be on IRC at odd times. So, when I had a spare few minutes I'd drop a ping to see if you were on. If not, I'd go have dinner, or go to bed, or go to work, and try again later. I wasn't harassing you, it was just the limitations of the only communication channel that I was able to establish with you.


You call it harassment, I call it trying to get some information. I don't recall ever receiving info from you unsolicited, I had to chase it.


Yeah, now that you have restructured your insurance arrangements. Apparently in my case,
So how much of a buffer did MY shipment have? I can easily demonstrate that spot price didn't inflate by 60% over the timeframe in question.


A thinly veiled suggestion that I am claiming fraudulently? Stay classy.



Dude, scripting? As stated before, I simply tried to get hold of you when I could. I have never written a script for IRC in my life. Every entry that you have from me in your chat log came from my fingers on the keyboard.

Excuse me for saving my appreciation for when your offer to replace it became reality. It didn't happen. From your vague 'quite possibly' and 'probably' etc, I never expected it to.


Apparently you're the only one who thinks so.


The size of your margins are none of my concern. And again with the suggestion that I'm committing fraud. If the law isn't on your side, bang on the facts. If the facts aren't on your side, bang on the table.


Fabrications like me calling you on the phone? Riiiight.

You say 'besmirch', I say warning people. Hell, I don't even need to add much to what Coinabul reps have admitted themselves. I paid, I didn't receive. Coinabul underinsured, I'm out of pocket.

whats the dollar value got to do with anything ?

If they don't square this up I will send them a email, informing them I won't purchase anything more from them until they do. I don't they are willing to lose much business on a small order. Although, they don't owe you 81 btc. Only what the dollar value was on the order.

Who did shiftybugger pay insurance money to?  If he paid it to Coinabul, they are responsible for insuring loss.  They should re-send the original quantity of silver, and use better insurance this time.  If there's some kind of insurance regulators responsible for mail insurers, Coinabul should contact them to pursue reimbursement for their loss.

I agree, time zones suck but I think a "message me when you're available" or "hey, I want to talk about the package, I'm in AEST and is available X to Y" would be better. Coinabul has a support email, no?

Either way, it doesn't change that it's a lot more of Coinabul's fault than the buyer's fault, and covering the loss would be expected.

Look at the timestamps. They are all hours or days apart.

I live on the other side of the planet to them. I would simply log into IRC and ping him to see if he was on. I wasn't trying to harass the guy - communication was just terribly difficult to accomplish on IRC. I would have much preferred email.

What was going on in shiftybugger's mind when he said ping a few dozen times?

All silver and gold must henceforth only be shipped as pgp digests.

I have shipped over 3000 packages and have had 4 lost packages. When a package is lost. I refund the customer first and then try and make a claim. I have never not gotten a refund and the cost of the item back for a lost package.

Did you have the carrier trace the package? Does the carrier claim they delivered the package to the destination?

I'm sorry, but I also think it is your obligation. I agree with those who say that the insurance contract was between you and the insurer, not between your client and the insurer. Unless of course you made it quite explicit to be the other way around in your  ToS. But I don't think doing so is a wise customer policy, and as somebody said above, it's likely to be considered illegal by the US gov.


How come? Isn't the receiver obliged to sign a proof of receipt to retrieve his package?


That's just one more reason to eat this particular loss. You can dilute it on your other earnings.


How?


Summary of my opinion: Coinabul should reimburse its customer, and perhaps change its insurer if the current one really refuses to do his part. Eventually even sue the insurer, if the amount makes it worthy to.

Please let me know if this issue gets resolved. If not please post to the master scammer list to add coinabul as a scammer. Thanks