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Topic: Scientific proof that God exists? - page 335. (Read 845572 times)

newbie
Activity: 6
Merit: 0
March 08, 2015, 06:24:39 PM
Still waiting for the scientific proof. After all the thred is called that. Almost 200 pages with ribbish? Where is the proof?

Agree, this thread is a mess, I wish I had better english to contribute.. what about this post?

I personally dislike term "God" simply because it's connected with religion(s) so I prefer "Creator" or "Designer".. Is it even possible for us to talk about something beyond space and time without any personification? The Signs of God's Existence documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS1x-6al2pE

I watched it all, here are references for their "proof":

Golden ratio discovered in quantum world: Hidden symmetry observed for the first time in solid state matter:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/01/100107143909.htm

Solid-state physics: Golden ratio seen in a magnet:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v464/n7287/full/464362a.html

Is there connection between golden ratio and God? Do we at least know what's consciousness? And what about Noetic sciences?

http://www.noetic.org/about/what-are-noetic-sciences/

Is there even a way to scientifically prove God's existence?
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
Knowledge could but approximate existence.
March 08, 2015, 06:15:26 PM
Still waiting for the scientific proof. After all the thred is called that. Almost 200 pages with ribbish? Where is the proof?

Even if fiction, “God” exists no less than the character Macbeth of Shakespeare’s The Tragedy of Macbeth.
hero member
Activity: 555
Merit: 507
March 08, 2015, 06:01:57 PM
Still waiting for the scientific proof. After all the thred is called that. Almost 200 pages with ribbish? Where is the proof?
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
Knowledge could but approximate existence.
March 08, 2015, 05:37:39 PM
There is no scientific proof that God doesn't exist. Being an atheist and wanting to force everyone to be one is the same as believing in a religion and wanting to force people to believe in it.

Right on!

However, nobody is required to believe that the evidence is ever enough. People simply are built so they can make their own choice about accepting the evidence or not. Great pain and great pleasure make it more difficult to deny the evidence, whatever it may be, about anything. Without great pain or great pleasure one can talk himself/herself into believing almost anything... right in the face of abundant evidence to the opposite.

People who deny the great abundance of evidences for God all around us, have the ability to do so. In some cases, they know down deep that they are lying to themselves. In other cases, they are simply using a section of their mentality in a forceful way. Yet, in times of great pleasure or great pain, the evidence for God becomes more of a reality to them. "There are no atheists in the foxholes."

The truth is, the atheist is a person of great faith. Why? There are abundant evidences for God in nature all around us... including within ourselves... just the fact that something as marvelous as the human machine can exist. In the face of these great evidences, the atheist still believes (at least on the outside) that God doesn't exist. Such faith as that, especially when found in the high I.Q. atheists, is great faith. God would really like such people on His side.

People of great faith, even atheists, often do great things.

Smiley
(Red colorization mine.)

Attempt to discover an existentially nihilist perspective of the colorized text above with that below.



Quote from: Alan Pratt. “Nihilism.” The Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy. sec.: 3. 08 Mar. 235. link=http://www.iep.utm.edu/nihilism
3. Existential Nihilism

While nihilism is often discussed in terms of extreme skepticism and relativism, for most of [180‒219 EA] it has been associated with the belief that life is meaningless. Existential nihilism begins with the notion that the world is without meaning or purpose. Given this circumstance, existence itself--all action, suffering, and feeling--is ultimately senseless and empty.

In The Dark Side: Thoughts on the Futility of Life (1994), Alan Pratt demonstrates that existential nihilism, in one form or another, has been a part of the Western intellectual tradition from the beginning. The Skeptic Empedocles' observation that "the life of mortals is so mean a thing as to be virtually un-life," for instance, embodies the same kind of extreme pessimism associated with existential nihilism. In antiquity, such profound pessimism may have reached its apex with Hegesis. Because miseries vastly outnumber pleasures, happiness is impossible, the philosopher argues, and subsequently advocates suicide. Centuries later during the Renaissance, William Shakespeare eloquently summarized the existential nihilist's perspective when, in this famous passage near the end of Macbeth, he has Macbeth pour out his disgust for life:

Quote from: William Shakespeare
Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more; it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.


In the twentieth century, it's the atheistic existentialist movement, popularized in France in the [160 EA]s and [170 EA]s, that is responsible for the currency of existential nihilism in the popular consciousness. Jean-Paul Sartre's ([125‒200 EA]) defining preposition for the movement, "existence precedes essence," rules out any ground or foundation for establishing an essential self or a human nature. When we abandon illusions, life is revealed as nothing; and for the existentialists, nothingness is the source of not only absolute freedom but also existential horror and emotional anguish. Nothingness reveals each individual as an isolated being "thrown" into an alien and unresponsive universe, barred forever from knowing why yet required to invent meaning. It's a situation that's nothing short of absurd. Writing from the enlightened perspective of the absurd, Albert Camus ([133‒180 EA]) observed that Sisyphus' plight, condemned to eternal, useless struggle, was a superb metaphor for human existence (The Myth of Sisyphus, 1942).

[…]
(Red colorization mine.)
hero member
Activity: 1064
Merit: 505
March 08, 2015, 04:22:19 PM
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?



God, in the offer of freedom, has allowed people to do evil as well as good. - That means god is not good

God doesn't like the evil because it harms the people who do it. - He obviously does like evil(And he tolerates it, if he didn't there would be no evil), because he continues to let evil room. Did he save any of those 6 million+ jews from getting slaughtered like barn animals by Hitler? No. + many more examples.

God is doing away with the evil, and He is doing away with the ability to do evil any longer. - No he is not, hundreds of thousands of people are murdered yearly.

Because of the tremendous greatness with which He set this universe up, the way He is doing away with evil is to destroy this universe. - So he's going to "destroy" this universe to do away with evil, really, that's your answer?

God is offering the people who want to get out of the evil, the chance to join Him in the new universe He is setting up. - Makes no sense, see XinXan's post, and the very chapter of Revealations itself is regarded as Symolic, not to be taken literally, just like Genesis. I advise you to take theology...

God, in the offer of freedom, is allowing people the opportunity to remain in the evil, by not believing in and accepting Him, so they essentially are destroyed right along with the rest of the evil when He completely dissolves this universe. - Again, see XinXan's post, by God allowing evil, that means he himself is not good.

Where do you want to be? destroyed with the evil? or saved with the good? If you want to be saved with the good, you better start believing in God the right way. Otherwise you are being evil, and will be destroyed with the rest of the evil, as you have asked, by remaining in unbelief regarding God. - Again, see XinXan's post.

Smiley

The purpose of XinXan's questions and the answers are there to illustrate that: God either doesn't exist, isn't "god"(Can't do all things), or he's not a good "god".

There's 3 answers and XinXan described it perfectly.

P.S. None of BADecker's statements made sense, at all.


And with that, so long. There's no further point in discussing this.

I couldnt really understand most of his arguments but here comes this: if heaven really exists and heaven is a place that allows no evil then there is no frewill there and since humans have the potential for evil it would mean that we would be robots in heaven since no human will ever be able to do evil things again and if that is possible why god couldnt do that since the begining?
sr. member
Activity: 630
Merit: 250
March 08, 2015, 03:50:37 PM
I dunno why some may feel I'm an athiest, for I have clearly demonstrated what would be classed as 'scientific' facts, that the bible has hidden cabalistic maths, that are used in ritual's by most denominations, and most faiths, albeit in a different guise.. I must admit their is a higher scource in order to even have a comodom of sense to put what is clearly all over the web and not of my doing.. everything these different books say is the same story, no one faith or religion can claim it as it's own.

If you ask me, the only time people are are remembered, are when they are dead, only then do people talk about them.. and I guess they've been talking about god for centuries..

BY talking about that which you deem god, you create his existance..

hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 500
March 08, 2015, 03:21:38 PM
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?



God, in the offer of freedom, has allowed people to do evil as well as good. - That means god is not good

God doesn't like the evil because it harms the people who do it. - He obviously does like evil(And he tolerates it, if he didn't there would be no evil), because he continues to let evil room. Did he save any of those 6 million+ jews from getting slaughtered like barn animals by Hitler? No. + many more examples.

God is doing away with the evil, and He is doing away with the ability to do evil any longer. - No he is not, hundreds of thousands of people are murdered yearly.

Because of the tremendous greatness with which He set this universe up, the way He is doing away with evil is to destroy this universe. - So he's going to "destroy" this universe to do away with evil, really, that's your answer?

God is offering the people who want to get out of the evil, the chance to join Him in the new universe He is setting up. - Makes no sense, see XinXan's post, and the very chapter of Revealations itself is regarded as Symolic, not to be taken literally, just like Genesis. I advise you to take theology...

God, in the offer of freedom, is allowing people the opportunity to remain in the evil, by not believing in and accepting Him, so they essentially are destroyed right along with the rest of the evil when He completely dissolves this universe. - Again, see XinXan's post, by God allowing evil, that means he himself is not good.

Where do you want to be? destroyed with the evil? or saved with the good? If you want to be saved with the good, you better start believing in God the right way. Otherwise you are being evil, and will be destroyed with the rest of the evil, as you have asked, by remaining in unbelief regarding God. - Again, see XinXan's post.

Smiley

The purpose of XinXan's questions and the answers are there to illustrate that: God either doesn't exist, isn't "god"(Can't do all things), or he's not a good "god".

There's 3 answers and XinXan described it perfectly.

P.S. None of BADecker's statements made sense, at all.


And with that, so long. There's no further point in discussing this.
hero member
Activity: 555
Merit: 507
March 08, 2015, 03:05:06 PM


God doesn't like the evil because it harms the people who do it.


Smiley

If he dosnt like evil, why did he create it?
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1016
March 08, 2015, 02:29:40 PM
If you want to be saved with the good, you better start believing in God the right way. Otherwise you are being evil, and will be destroyed with the rest of the evil, as you have asked, by remaining in unbelief regarding God.

So let's get this straight, you saying people must believe in god or they are automatically labeled as evil?

So someone that believes in god yet still kills people is better than a non-believer that lives a peaceful loving life?

Mmmmmmmmm.....
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
March 08, 2015, 02:01:16 PM
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?



God, in the offer of freedom, has allowed people to do evil as well as good.

God doesn't like the evil because it harms the people who do it.

God is doing away with the evil, and He is doing away with the ability to do evil any longer.

Because of the tremendous greatness with which He set this universe up, the way He is doing away with evil is to destroy this universe.

God is offering the people who want to get out of the evil, the chance to join Him in the new universe He is setting up.

God, in the offer of freedom, is allowing people the opportunity to remain in the evil, by not believing in and accepting Him, so they essentially are destroyed right along with the rest of the evil when He completely dissolves this universe.

Where do you want to be? destroyed with the evil? or saved with the good? If you want to be saved with the good, you better start believing in God the right way. Otherwise you are being evil, and will be destroyed with the rest of the evil, as you have asked, by remaining in unbelief regarding God.

Smiley
hero member
Activity: 1064
Merit: 505
March 08, 2015, 06:10:37 AM
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

hero member
Activity: 886
Merit: 1013
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1016
March 08, 2015, 03:05:05 AM
"There are no atheists in the foxholes."

I love it when this old one gets wheeled out. Here, have a read up and remove those atheist myths from your closed mind. Roll Eyes
http://www.alternet.org/story/152395/10_myths_many_religious_people_hold_about_atheists,_debunked
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
March 07, 2015, 10:14:52 PM
There is no scientific proof that God doesn't exist. Being an atheist and wanting to force everyone to be one is the same as believing in a religion and wanting to force people to believe in it.

Right on!

However, nobody is required to believe that the evidence is ever enough. People simply are built so they can make their own choice about accepting the evidence or not. Great pain and great pleasure make it more difficult to deny the evidence, whatever it may be, about anything. Without great pain or great pleasure one can talk himself/herself into believing almost anything... right in the face of abundant evidence to the opposite.

People who deny the great abundance of evidences for God all around us, have the ability to do so. In some cases, they know down deep that they are lying to themselves. In other cases, they are simply using a section of their mentality in a forceful way. Yet, in times of great pleasure or great pain, the evidence for God becomes more of a reality to them. "There are no atheists in the foxholes."

The truth is, the atheist is a person of great faith. Why? There are abundant evidences for God in nature all around us... including within ourselves... just the fact that something as marvelous as the human machine can exist. In the face of these great evidences, the atheist still believes (at least on the outside) that God doesn't exist. Such faith as that, especially when found in the high I.Q. atheists, is great faith. God would really like such people on His side.

People of great faith, even atheists, often do great things.

Smiley
hero member
Activity: 1022
Merit: 500
March 07, 2015, 04:23:09 PM
There is no scientific proof that God doesn't exist. Being an atheist and wanting to force everyone to be one is the same as believing in a religion and wanting to force people to believe in it.
sr. member
Activity: 630
Merit: 250
March 07, 2015, 03:39:11 PM
At this point I recommend the movie SnowPeircer Smiley
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
March 07, 2015, 01:16:33 PM
God is above science.
sr. member
Activity: 630
Merit: 250
March 07, 2015, 12:45:04 PM

Literally every sentence you write makes me feel like you dropped out of school in 3rd grade BADecker. At least research before you come up with bullshit that not even fellow christians would accept.

Blah, blah, blah, blah.

Any time you decide to take a look at the way things are written the Bible, you will see that the Bible distinguishes between literal and figurative, right in the language it uses. So, when jokers like you yakety yak like this, it can absolutely be expected. You don't have a clue about what you are yacking.

Smiley

First off, the bible does not clearly distinguish(Excluding many of Jesus's parables) between what may be metaphorical, symbolic, or literal. Second off, as I said before, The 24 hour/day 365 year Calendar, was not made until the 1500s. This means that the Genesis Portion of the bible where it says god created everything in 6 days is incorrect(edited?) or symbolic. Either one, because they did not have 24 hour "days" back then as we do now.

If you're gonna argue, at least try and dont look like a fool.

Twice, now, you have attempted to limit me. Usually a person attempts to limit another when there isn't any other way to combat the other.

I'm different. I offer you the freedom to continue looking like a fool as much as your little pitter patter desires.

Smiley

You CANNOT offer freedom, if you did, you would'nt continue looking like a fool as much as your little pitter patter desires.

You have clearly shown the world that unless it's your interpretation, it's fuck all.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
March 06, 2015, 03:40:32 AM

Literally every sentence you write makes me feel like you dropped out of school in 3rd grade BADecker. At least research before you come up with bullshit that not even fellow christians would accept.

Blah, blah, blah, blah.

Any time you decide to take a look at the way things are written the Bible, you will see that the Bible distinguishes between literal and figurative, right in the language it uses. So, when jokers like you yakety yak like this, it can absolutely be expected. You don't have a clue about what you are yacking.

Smiley

First off, the bible does not clearly distinguish(Excluding many of Jesus's parables) between what may be metaphorical, symbolic, or literal. Second off, as I said before, The 24 hour/day 365 year Calendar, was not made until the 1500s. This means that the Genesis Portion of the bible where it says god created everything in 6 days is incorrect(edited?) or symbolic. Either one, because they did not have 24 hour "days" back then as we do now.

If you're gonna argue, at least try and dont look like a fool.

Twice, now, you have attempted to limit me. Usually a person attempts to limit another when there isn't any other way to combat the other.

I'm different. I offer you the freedom to continue looking like a fool as much as your little pitter patter desires.

Smiley
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 500
March 05, 2015, 11:51:33 PM
BADecker: I challenge you to a duel, my knowledge of the emerald tablet's against your bible in a friendly fitbaw match, our turn, being the ball?

Hopfully the admins will send us a percentage of the bets as a donation lol, just for the increased trafic Wink

Edit: You start the thread, so as not to hijack, let's see what we know?

Not interested.

It's enough to know:

"In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth."

There was a great universal war between the "angels" of God, and "fallen angels" of Satan. This war brought the whole universe to disorder. The dregs of "material" coalesced in what the Genesis calls "the Earth."

From that point, God Himself rebuilt the universe in a period of 6 days. He also made mankind in the form of our first two original ancestors.

Moses figured out the basic truths about our beginning. He wrote it down in the first 5 books of the Bible. Obviously, the info in these books doesn't cover even a fraction of the knowledge that is out there. But it covers the things that people need to know to live a reasonable life on earth, and to be saved from death to eternal life.

Whatever God is, He developed in less than one day the complicated life that we know as mankind. He actually "breathed" a portion of Himself into the first man, so that mankind actually has a touch of God in himself.

Fill up on the themes of the Bible. Anything other than that will not produce beneficial results. Nobody can create mankind except God, Himself. Nobody can breathe the Spirit of God into man's nostrils so that man becomes a living soul.

Neither you, nor I, nor anyone else needs anything more than the themes of the Bible for eternal life.

Smiley

In Genesis, it never says that God created the universe after the "universal war" between the angels and satan/followers. Also, it's clear you've never taken theology(Which all priests are required to do). To be honest, you should just stop talking BADecker. Even the priest at my local church would frown/laugh at what you've written. The Genesis portion of the bible is considered by most biblical historians to be Symbolic, and not literal, especially since back when these chapters were supposedly written, there Were No 24 hour Day Calendars aka The gregorian calendar did not exist yet, which is why "God creating the universe is 6 days" is regarded as Symbolic. You and whoever else believes that God created the world in 6 days is an idiot, and truly needs to go back to school. From that you can also see just how much the bible has been edited over the centuries(Genesis was edited), and why most of the things in there are symbolic or simply false.

Literally every sentence you write makes me feel like you dropped out of school in 3rd grade BADecker. At least research before you come up with bullshit that not even fellow christians would accept.

Blah, blah, blah, blah.

Any time you decide to take a look at the way things are written the Bible, you will see that the Bible distinguishes between literal and figurative, right in the language it uses. So, when jokers like you yakety yak like this, it can absolutely be expected. You don't have a clue about what you are yacking.

Smiley

First off, the bible does not clearly distinguish(Excluding many of Jesus's parables) between what may be metaphorical, symbolic, or literal. Second off, as I said before, The 24 hour/day 365 year Calendar, was not made until the 1500s. This means that the Genesis Portion of the bible where it says god created everything in 6 days is incorrect(edited?) or symbolic. Either one, because they did not have 24 hour "days" back then as we do now.

If you're gonna argue, at least try and dont look like a fool.
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