[SDC] ShadowCash | Welcome to the UMBRA - page 416.

LiteBit

legendary

Activity: 1133

Merit: 1050

Quote from: SebSebastian on January 02, 2015, 07:02:22 PM

Quote from: Peter Todd on January 02, 2015, 05:38:39 PM

Quote from: SebSebastian on January 01, 2015, 03:37:02 PM

Peter Todd invented stealth addresses.

I wouldn't say I "invented" stealth addresses; I'd say I designed stealth addresses......

Thanks for the clarification Peter. I don't understand the math behind ECC sigs at all, but the Coursera/Stanford Cryptography course starts again in a few days so I'm hoping that'll shed some light on the number-voodoo that makes all this possible. For anyone else who'd like to learn a bit more about crypto take a look - it's free and starts on the 5th.

https://www.coursera.org/course/crypto

Thanks for the link Seb! Definitely interested in a free crypto course offered by Stanford!

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Our research group implemented the math in python part time in a week or two.

https://github.com/monero-project/mininero

00Smurf

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Well he stated that the "MATH" look to be a clone/copy of monero, meaning the math formulas. Converting maths into workeable code is where it gets hard. As its been stated numerous times in plenty of threads cryptonote is a completely seperate codebase then bitcoin, which means any parts of CN Maths that were implemented into shadow had to be coded from the ground up and is a unique implementation.

IIRC the CN devs said it would take years to implement any cryptonote tech into the bitcoin codebase. Ryno and technovert did it in 4 months.

Also as smooth pointed out having some based; on CN pieces under the hood isn't a bad thing.

Wheatclove

hero member

Activity: 606

Merit: 500

Quote from: smooth on January 02, 2015, 09:06:08 PM

Quote from: child_harold on January 02, 2015, 07:47:09 PM

Quote from: Peter Todd on January 02, 2015, 07:36:20 PM

Quote from: Pline on January 02, 2015, 06:02:08 PM

Hey Peter Todd, wondering what you think about ShadowCash? It seems pretty cool to me, but I am not nearly technical enough to completely understand the inner workings. I only barely grasp the concepts they are using, but it sounds pretty revolutionary.

They just released their shadow send feature and white paper a couple weeks ago. White paper here: http://shadow.cash/downloads/shadowcash-anon.pdf

Like stealth, I don't have the background to really understand the ring-signatures ShadowCash uses; I was contacted by ShadowCash to do an audit and deferred it to a cryptographer I know. They said the math looked to be a clone of Monero, done on top of Bitcoin. They were however potentially interested in doing an audit of the ring signatures idea to get a better idea of what kind of privacy it really gives people in practice - we'll see if they have the time to work on that further in the near future.

Best not to say more publicly than that given I just haven't done the research to really know.

The phrase "clone of Monero" would incense Ryno

Im sure SDC is not that (cryptonote)… waiting on your friend…

You guys are so stubborn.

Everyone who looks at it who understands this stuff at all (and I do somewhat, but I wouldn't put myself in the same category as a cryptographer referred by Peter Todd) says that is a clone of the cryptonote stealth address plus ring signature scheme, and then the same echo chamber here says "No, its not cryptonote!" As if that would even be a bad thing Huh

It's quite interesting to see.

Most people hardly understand what factors make a coin unique (admittedly, I am only self educated in the cryptocurrencies with not many hours spent teaching myself). A majority of the "echo chamber," as you put it, only know that Shadowcash is Shadowcash and therefore, by their logic, cannot also be Monero.

yourstruly

sr. member

Activity: 308

Merit: 250

thrasher.

Quote from: Wheatclove on January 02, 2015, 07:58:29 PM

Quote from: yourstruly on January 02, 2015, 07:45:14 PM

There have been no trades on https://exco.in/exchange/BTC/SDC for more than three days.

We may try to pairing to BLK or NBT to see if that generates more interest.

for the past 3 days ive been unable to access the sdc/btc exchange on excoin

We never received a support ticket regarding issues with the SDC exchange. Can you send us a ticket with the details of your issue? We will resolve it soon as possible.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: child_harold on January 02, 2015, 07:47:09 PM

Quote from: Peter Todd on January 02, 2015, 07:36:20 PM

Quote from: Pline on January 02, 2015, 06:02:08 PM

Hey Peter Todd, wondering what you think about ShadowCash? It seems pretty cool to me, but I am not nearly technical enough to completely understand the inner workings. I only barely grasp the concepts they are using, but it sounds pretty revolutionary.

They just released their shadow send feature and white paper a couple weeks ago. White paper here: http://shadow.cash/downloads/shadowcash-anon.pdf

Like stealth, I don't have the background to really understand the ring-signatures ShadowCash uses; I was contacted by ShadowCash to do an audit and deferred it to a cryptographer I know. They said the math looked to be a clone of Monero, done on top of Bitcoin. They were however potentially interested in doing an audit of the ring signatures idea to get a better idea of what kind of privacy it really gives people in practice - we'll see if they have the time to work on that further in the near future.

Best not to say more publicly than that given I just haven't done the research to really know.

The phrase "clone of Monero" would incense Ryno

Im sure SDC is not that (cryptonote)… waiting on your friend…

You guys are so stubborn.

Everyone who looks at it who understands this stuff at all (and I do somewhat, but I wouldn't put myself in the same category as a cryptographer referred by Peter Todd) says that is a clone of the cryptonote stealth address plus ring signature scheme, and then the same echo chamber here says "No, its not cryptonote!" As if that would even be a bad thing Huh

It's quite interesting to see.

child_harold

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 1000

Quote from: child_harold on January 02, 2015, 07:47:09 PM

Quote from: Peter Todd on January 02, 2015, 07:36:20 PM

Quote from: Pline on January 02, 2015, 06:02:08 PM

Hey Peter Todd, wondering what you think about ShadowCash? It seems pretty cool to me, but I am not nearly technical enough to completely understand the inner workings. I only barely grasp the concepts they are using, but it sounds pretty revolutionary.

They just released their shadow send feature and white paper a couple weeks ago. White paper here: http://shadow.cash/downloads/shadowcash-anon.pdf

Like stealth, I don't have the background to really understand the ring-signatures ShadowCash uses; I was contacted by ShadowCash to do an audit and deferred it to a cryptographer I know. They said the math looked to be a clone of Monero, done on top of Bitcoin. They were however potentially interested in doing an audit of the ring signatures idea to get a better idea of what kind of privacy it really gives people in practice - we'll see if they have the time to work on that further in the near future.

Best not to say more publicly than that given I just haven't done the research to really know.

The phrase "clone of Monero" would incense Ryno

Im sure SDC is not that (cryptonote)… waiting on your friend…

Awesome to have you here!

edit: the phrase "there's more than one way to skin a cat" also comes to mind Wink

p.s. I very much hope the audit being performed by the cryptographer you deferred to in this matter will help disambiguate, once and for all, the difference between Shadow and Monero. With Respect & Thanks.

Wheatclove

hero member

Activity: 606

Merit: 500

Quote from: yourstruly on January 02, 2015, 07:45:14 PM

There have been no trades on https://exco.in/exchange/BTC/SDC for more than three days.

We may try to pairing to BLK or NBT to see if that generates more interest.

for the past 3 days ive been unable to access the sdc/btc exchange on excoin

Pline

full member

Activity: 448

Merit: 100

Quote from: yourstruly on January 02, 2015, 07:45:14 PM

There have been no trades on https://exco.in/exchange/BTC/SDC for more than three days.

We may try to pairing to BLK or NBT to see if that generates more interest.

Yeah and Cryptsy ShadowCash wallet is ALWAYS in maintenance. I would add volume there, but their wallet is never working. But when their paycoin wallet broke, they fixed it pronto. They said SDC was not a priority.

child_harold

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Peter Todd on January 02, 2015, 07:36:20 PM

Quote from: Pline on January 02, 2015, 06:02:08 PM

Hey Peter Todd, wondering what you think about ShadowCash? It seems pretty cool to me, but I am not nearly technical enough to completely understand the inner workings. I only barely grasp the concepts they are using, but it sounds pretty revolutionary.

They just released their shadow send feature and white paper a couple weeks ago. White paper here: http://shadow.cash/downloads/shadowcash-anon.pdf

Like stealth, I don't have the background to really understand the ring-signatures ShadowCash uses; I was contacted by ShadowCash to do an audit and deferred it to a cryptographer I know. They said the math looked to be a clone of Monero, done on top of Bitcoin. They were however potentially interested in doing an audit of the ring signatures idea to get a better idea of what kind of privacy it really gives people in practice - we'll see if they have the time to work on that further in the near future.

Best not to say more publicly than that given I just haven't done the research to really know.

The phrase "clone of Monero" would incense Ryno

Im sure SDC is not that (cryptonote)… waiting on your friend…

Awesome to have you here!

edit: the phrase "there's more than one way to skin a cat" also comes to mind Wink

Pline

full member

Activity: 448

Merit: 100

Quote from: Peter Todd on January 02, 2015, 07:36:20 PM

Quote from: Pline on January 02, 2015, 06:02:08 PM

Hey Peter Todd, wondering what you think about ShadowCash? It seems pretty cool to me, but I am not nearly technical enough to completely understand the inner workings. I only barely grasp the concepts they are using, but it sounds pretty revolutionary.

They just released their shadow send feature and white paper a couple weeks ago. White paper here: http://shadow.cash/downloads/shadowcash-anon.pdf

Like stealth, I don't have the background to really understand the ring-signatures ShadowCash uses; I was contacted by ShadowCash to do an audit and deferred it to a cryptographer I know. They said the math looked to be a clone of Monero, done on top of Bitcoin. They were however potentially interested in doing an audit of the ring signatures idea to get a better idea of what kind of privacy it really gives people in practice - we'll see if they have the time to work on that further in the near future.

Best not to say more publicly than that given I just haven't done the research to really know.

Thanks, really appreciate the reply. Hopefully Shadow will be vetted by more people in the near future.

yourstruly

sr. member

Activity: 308

Merit: 250

thrasher.

There have been no trades on https://exco.in/exchange/BTC/SDC for more than three days.

We may try to pairing to BLK or NBT to see if that generates more interest.

Peter Todd

legendary

Activity: 1120

Merit: 1152

Quote from: Pline on January 02, 2015, 06:02:08 PM

Hey Peter Todd, wondering what you think about ShadowCash? It seems pretty cool to me, but I am not nearly technical enough to completely understand the inner workings. I only barely grasp the concepts they are using, but it sounds pretty revolutionary.

They just released their shadow send feature and white paper a couple weeks ago. White paper here: http://shadow.cash/downloads/shadowcash-anon.pdf

Like stealth, I don't have the background to really understand the ring-signatures ShadowCash uses; I was contacted by ShadowCash to do an audit and deferred it to a cryptographer I know. They said the math looked to be a clone of Monero, done on top of Bitcoin. They were however potentially interested in doing an audit of the ring signatures idea to get a better idea of what kind of privacy it really gives people in practice - we'll see if they have the time to work on that further in the near future.

Best not to say more publicly than that given I just haven't done the research to really know.

SebSebastian

sr. member

Activity: 286

Merit: 250

Quote from: Peter Todd on January 02, 2015, 05:38:39 PM

Quote from: SebSebastian on January 01, 2015, 03:37:02 PM

Peter Todd invented stealth addresses.

I wouldn't say I "invented" stealth addresses; I'd say I designed stealth addresses. The part that you could call an "invention" was created by ByteCoin (the bitcointalk user) years ago - what I did was take that math and figured out a good way to use it given real world constraints. (some of them 100% political!)

To be perfectly honest, I don't really understand the math behind ECC signatures, and hence stealth addresses. My original stealth addresses writeup actually got some of the details there wrong, basically because I was copying-and-pasting from the BIP32 writeup. But IMO that's actually a nice example of how you can treat the math as a "black-box" with known properties and do your innovation elsewhere - no different than how most of you probably don't know much about how compilers work under the hood, yet successfully use them every day to make software.

Thanks for the clarification Peter. I don't understand the math behind ECC sigs at all, but the Coursera/Stanford Cryptography course starts again in a few days so I'm hoping that'll shed some light on the number-voodoo that makes all this possible. For anyone else who'd like to learn a bit more about crypto take a look - it's free and starts on the 5th.

https://www.coursera.org/course/crypto

Wheatclove

hero member

Activity: 606

Merit: 500

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Wheatclove on January 02, 2015, 05:59:33 PM

Quote from: Automatic Monkey on January 02, 2015, 04:21:40 PM

Quote from: Pline on January 02, 2015, 03:18:26 PM

Quote

I just said it Wink

I have now 6 shadows because I was able to convert successfuly 2 shadows. Then I tried again with 2 and it didn't work, then with the whole 6, neither.

Try making ring size 3 which is the smallest possible. I had similar issue recently. I am wondering the reason as well, and if things will improve as the network grows. I believe the larger the ring size, the better the anonymity.

Hopefully we'll get a wallet that will take care of this automatically, give the largest ring size that will provide the coins necessary to make the transaction. But we're still young.

I like what I'm seeing on the bourses, looks like that's a solid concrete floor. Always good news.

there's an option to automatically select a ring size in the settings

You obviously haven't read all my posts related to this issue Wink

The auto-selector gives me an error.

This is what suggest ring size tells me:

Not enough system and or owned outputs for the requested amount.

Only 0 anonymous outputs exist for coin value: 8.00000000

i was responding to automatic monkey

Pline

full member

Activity: 448

Merit: 100

Quote from: Peter Todd on January 02, 2015, 05:38:39 PM

Quote from: SebSebastian on January 01, 2015, 03:37:02 PM

Peter Todd invented stealth addresses.

I wouldn't say I "invented" stealth addresses; I'd say I designed stealth addresses. The part that you could call an "invention" was created by ByteCoin (the bitcointalk user) years ago - what I did was take that math and figured out a good way to use it given real world constraints. (some of them 100% political!)

To be perfectly honest, I don't really understand the math behind ECC signatures, and hence stealth addresses. My original stealth addresses writeup actually got some of the details there wrong, basically because I was copying-and-pasting from the BIP32 writeup. But IMO that's actually a nice example of how you can treat the math as a "black-box" with known properties and do your innovation elsewhere - no different than how most of you probably don't know much about how compilers work under the hood, yet successfully use them every day to make software.

Hey Peter Todd, wondering what you think about ShadowCash? It seems pretty cool to me, but I am not nearly technical enough to completely understand the inner workings. I only barely grasp the concepts they are using, but it sounds pretty revolutionary.

They just released their shadow send feature and white paper a couple weeks ago. White paper here: http://shadow.cash/downloads/shadowcash-anon.pdf

Also someone made this good presentation to show how the system works: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1yX2jN618Rnzs4g2ri_utdKdHbny6-xnRcPhOuhLNGB0/edit?pli=1#slide=id.g577a31a2a_086

They also have Shadow Chat encrypted messenger within the official wallet and have a plan for ShadyBay, a decentralized marketplace within the wallet soon as well.

So do you think this project is legit? Do you have any recommendations to the developers on how they could improve their system?

child_harold

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Peter Todd on January 02, 2015, 05:38:39 PM

Quote from: SebSebastian on January 01, 2015, 03:37:02 PM

Peter Todd invented stealth addresses.

I wouldn't say I "invented" stealth addresses; I'd say I designed stealth addresses. The part that you could call an "invention" was created by ByteCoin (the bitcointalk user) years ago - what I did was take that math and figured out a good way to use it given real world constraints. (some of them 100% political!)

To be perfectly honest, I don't really understand the math behind ECC signatures, and hence stealth addresses. My original stealth addresses writeup actually got some of the details there wrong, basically because I was copying-and-pasting from the BIP32 writeup. But IMO that's actually a nice example of how you can treat the math as a "black-box" with known properties and do your innovation elsewhere - no different than how most of you probably don't know much about how compilers work under the hood, yet successfully use them every day to make software.

Have you had a chance to look at the shadowsend v2 whitepaper? http://shadow.cash/downloads/shadowcash-anon.pdf
I'd be delighted to send you some SDC, that you might play with the tech for yourself…

Wheatclove

hero member

Activity: 606

Merit: 500

Quote from: Automatic Monkey on January 02, 2015, 04:21:40 PM

Quote from: Pline on January 02, 2015, 03:18:26 PM

Quote

I just said it Wink

I have now 6 shadows because I was able to convert successfuly 2 shadows. Then I tried again with 2 and it didn't work, then with the whole 6, neither.

Try making ring size 3 which is the smallest possible. I had similar issue recently. I am wondering the reason as well, and if things will improve as the network grows. I believe the larger the ring size, the better the anonymity.

Hopefully we'll get a wallet that will take care of this automatically, give the largest ring size that will provide the coins necessary to make the transaction. But we're still young.

I like what I'm seeing on the bourses, looks like that's a solid concrete floor. Always good news.

there's an option to automatically select a ring size in the settings

Peter Todd

legendary

Activity: 1120

Merit: 1152

Quote from: SebSebastian on January 01, 2015, 03:37:02 PM

Peter Todd invented stealth addresses.

I wouldn't say I "invented" stealth addresses; I'd say I designed stealth addresses. The part that you could call an "invention" was created by ByteCoin (the bitcointalk user) years ago - what I did was take that math and figured out a good way to use it given real world constraints. (some of them 100% political!)

To be perfectly honest, I don't really understand the math behind ECC signatures, and hence stealth addresses. My original stealth addresses writeup actually got some of the details there wrong, basically because I was copying-and-pasting from the BIP32 writeup. But IMO that's actually a nice example of how you can treat the math as a "black-box" with known properties and do your innovation elsewhere - no different than how most of you probably don't know much about how compilers work under the hood, yet successfully use them every day to make software.

Automatic Monkey

hero member

Activity: 503

Merit: 500

Quote from: Pline on January 02, 2015, 03:18:26 PM

Quote

I just said it Wink

I have now 6 shadows because I was able to convert successfuly 2 shadows. Then I tried again with 2 and it didn't work, then with the whole 6, neither.

Try making ring size 3 which is the smallest possible. I had similar issue recently. I am wondering the reason as well, and if things will improve as the network grows. I believe the larger the ring size, the better the anonymity.

Hopefully we'll get a wallet that will take care of this automatically, give the largest ring size that will provide the coins necessary to make the transaction. But we're still young.

I like what I'm seeing on the bourses, looks like that's a solid concrete floor. Always good news.

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