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Topic: Should bitcointalk account trading be banned? - page 3. (Read 3008 times)

global moderator
Activity: 3794
Merit: 2612
In a world of peaches, don't ask for apple sauce
Although selling accounts isn't plausible, but nor the mods, nor the admin can stop it. You ban the IP, they use a VPN, you ban the account, they'll get a new one. It's better when it's done openly, when people know the risk they might be dealing with a sold account, rather than secretly, when the user imagines the account belongs to the original member.

That makes sense.

If you had some hypothetical method which made it possible for you to perfectly ban people who traded accounts , with no gaps , do you think it would be used ?

Not focusing on the means and problems arising , if we could stop this account trading , should we or should we allow it ?

Probably yes. There are some forum rules (account trading, multiple accounts) that allow something because it isn't possible to control it or police it enough to actually severely decrease the activity in such.
legendary
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1038
Although selling accounts isn't plausible, but nor the mods, nor the admin can stop it. You ban the IP, they use a VPN, you ban the account, they'll get a new one. It's better when it's done openly, when people know the risk they might be dealing with a sold account, rather than secretly, when the user imagines the account belongs to the original member.

That makes sense.

If you had some hypothetical method which made it possible for you to perfectly ban people who traded accounts , with no gaps , do you think it would be used ?

Not focusing on the means and problems arising , if we could stop this account trading , should we or should we allow it ?
sr. member
Activity: 938
Merit: 255
SmartFi - EARN, LEND & TRADE
How do you effectively stop it though? Short answer, you pretty much can't  Undecided
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
Btw, I haven't seen a single thread for the sales of a forum account. Maybe I'm not in the right areas. Link to a few examples?

They pop up almost daily in the Digital Goods section. There's quite an in demand market for them since the signature restrictions came into place. There's actually a couple of users who even act as account brokers buying and selling 'em on.

Subud seems to be the most popular and longest running buyer/seller: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/affordable-bitcointalk-forum-accounts-for-sale-not-hacked-trusted-seller-292662

i believe Subud! was recently banned (not for trading accounts AFAIK). i heard it had something to do with bumping his marketplace thread, then deleting the bump posts once someone commented on the thread.

Holy crap, there are already 4 threads selling bitcointalk accounts in just the first page.
It seems quite a number of accounts are being traded. Sad

it isn't clear from looking what kind of volume there actually is here, though. it may not add up to much.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
The digital goods forum has some threads where accounts are being bought and sold: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=93.0

Holy crap, there are already 4 threads selling bitcointalk accounts in just the first page.
It seems quite a number of accounts are being traded. Sad
global moderator
Activity: 3990
Merit: 2713
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Btw, I haven't seen a single thread for the sales of a forum account. Maybe I'm not in the right areas. Link to a few examples?

They pop up almost daily in the Digital Goods section. There's quite an in demand market for them since the signature restrictions came into place. There's actually a couple of users who even act as account brokers buying and selling 'em on.

Subud seems to be the most popular and longest running buyer/seller: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/affordable-bitcointalk-forum-accounts-for-sale-not-hacked-trusted-seller-292662
sr. member
Activity: 430
Merit: 250
Agent of Chaos
If you guys haven't already noticed, a lot of sour things happen on this forum that shouldn't be allowed. I've been here long enough to see how this forum as evolved since the earlier days. For example, before there was the whole trust system, there was the scammer tags. The worst that happened to a known scammer, was just a tag. They are not banned, and mods do absolutely nothing about it.

So with that being said, if scammers are allowed to roam freely here, what makes you think mods will spend the time to chase accounts that were possibly traded? And if the accounts were traded to use as a scam, it's not like the scammer would be banned anyways. If a scammer isn't banned after he committed the scam, why would he be banned before a possible scam from the account trade? I'm not saying I support account trading (actually heavily against it), but just don't see this ever being enforced.

Btw, I haven't seen a single thread for the sales of a forum account. Maybe I'm not in the right areas. Link to a few examples?

I agree. No way this would ever be enforced on bitcointalk. Caveat emptor is the name of the game here. (And if you don't know, now ya know Tongue)

The digital goods forum has some threads where accounts are being bought and sold: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=93.0
legendary
Activity: 812
Merit: 1002
If you guys haven't already noticed, a lot of sour things happen on this forum that shouldn't be allowed. I've been here long enough to see how this forum as evolved since the earlier days. For example, before there was the whole trust system, there was the scammer tags. The worst that happened to a known scammer, was just a tag. They are not banned, and mods do absolutely nothing about it.

So with that being said, if scammers are allowed to roam freely here, what makes you think mods will spend the time to chase accounts that were possibly traded? And if the accounts were traded to use as a scam, it's not like the scammer would be banned anyways. If a scammer isn't banned after he committed the scam, why would he be banned before a possible scam from the account trade? I'm not saying I support account trading (actually heavily against it), but just don't see this ever being enforced.

Btw, I haven't seen a single thread for the sales of a forum account. Maybe I'm not in the right areas. Link to a few examples?
global moderator
Activity: 3990
Merit: 2713
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If a scammer wanna scam he will do it with bought accounts or without them, also i dont think that a hero member with green trust will sell his account and thats the only way to scam a bigger amount

You don't have to be a hero member with green trust to be trusted. I've seen people allegedly selling a Senior with green trust. They could surely use that account to play out a few decent, simultaneous cons.

And that's why the feedback system shouldn't be considered definitive and used just as a guide. It's not that difficult to effectively "buy" or acquire positive trust around here. It's unlikely that the person selling the account is going to be an active and valued member of the community regardless of the feedback so if you're  not familar with that user you should be cautious, and as I stated above, if you use escrow for every trade then you should be fine.

I was thinking more if the bought account with trust were to act as escrow and then con.

That is actually one of the more obvious reasons as to why the sale of accounts should not be allowed. Other reasons include giving the new account holder solid opportunities to con an acquaintance of the original account owner who was not informed of the sale, con lenders by flaunting the account's positive rating and past trading history, use the social influence garnered by the account over time in order to promote a scam, and so on and so forth. I have seen no other discussion board, website or service where the sale of accounts was even considered anything but wrong.

I understand that it would be difficult to detect the transfer of an account from one person to another. However, if a member starts an auction thread for his/her account, I believe that swift and decisive action has to be taken against the act since the evidence is readily available and redundantly archived.

Banning the sale of accounts won't stop this. And accounts are almost always sold from brand new newbie accounts to save them from being tarnished and negbombed. Most accounts are left negative feedback if they're found out to be sold or are trying to sell an account.

Although selling accounts isn't plausible, but nor the mods, nor the admin can stop it. You ban the IP, they use a VPN, you ban the account, they'll get a new one. It's better when it's done openly, when people know the risk they might be dealing with a sold account, rather than secretly, when the user imagines the account belongs to the original member.

Perhaps a mechanism for acknowledging sold accounts would be useful? Ideally not through leaving trust.

What sort of mechanism and how would that work exactly? Most deals go on behind closed doors so it's impossible to know.
sr. member
Activity: 345
Merit: 250
Trusted Member
I doubt banning it would make much difference. Maybe regulate sold accounts so users can be noticed that the account is owned by someone else. Its hard but if we could prevent such things from happening then more security and protection for users.
legendary
Activity: 1789
Merit: 1008
Keep it dense, yeah?
Although selling accounts isn't plausible, but nor the mods, nor the admin can stop it. You ban the IP, they use a VPN, you ban the account, they'll get a new one. It's better when it's done openly, when people know the risk they might be dealing with a sold account, rather than secretly, when the user imagines the account belongs to the original member.

Perhaps a mechanism for acknowledging sold accounts would be useful? Ideally not through leaving trust.
sr. member
Activity: 399
Merit: 257
If a scammer wanna scam he will do it with bought accounts or without them, also i dont think that a hero member with green trust will sell his account and thats the only way to scam a bigger amount

You don't have to be a hero member with green trust to be trusted. I've seen people allegedly selling a Senior with green trust. They could surely use that account to play out a few decent, simultaneous cons.

And that's why the feedback system shouldn't be considered definitive and used just as a guide. It's not that difficult to effectively "buy" or acquire positive trust around here. It's unlikely that the person selling the account is going to be an active and valued member of the community regardless of the feedback so if you're  not familar with that user you should be cautious, and as I stated above, if you use escrow for every trade then you should be fine.

I was thinking more if the bought account with trust were to act as escrow and then con.

That is actually one of the more obvious reasons as to why the sale of accounts should not be allowed. Other reasons include giving the new account holder solid opportunities to con an acquaintance of the original account owner who was not informed of the sale, con lenders by flaunting the account's positive rating and past trading history, use the social influence garnered by the account over time in order to promote a scam, and so on and so forth. I have seen no other discussion board, website or service where the sale of accounts was even considered anything but wrong.

I understand that it would be difficult to detect the transfer of an account from one person to another. However, if a member starts an auction thread for his/her account, I believe that swift and decisive action has to be taken against the act since the evidence is readily available and redundantly archived.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
I don't know If It's good or bad but If It's legal people should know that any account could be bought and they shouldn't trust by going first to anyone but the solutions would be to use escrow.ms? He Is the most trusted escrow on this forums so dealing with other people through him should be a piece of cake I think. And It wouldn't be hard to catch him because He is active.
global moderator
Activity: 3794
Merit: 2612
In a world of peaches, don't ask for apple sauce
Although selling accounts isn't plausible, but nor the mods, nor the admin can stop it. You ban the IP, they use a VPN, you ban the account, they'll get a new one. It's better when it's done openly, when people know the risk they might be dealing with a sold account, rather than secretly, when the user imagines the account belongs to the original member.
global moderator
Activity: 3990
Merit: 2713
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Unless they're already an escrow (which I doubt they will be) you shouldn't really be trusting new escrows that suddenly pop up without many existing feedbacks for this type of trade and/or who aren't already active members of the community (not to mention there are already plenty of trusted escrows around so why take a punt on a new one until they're established?). Of course, it's not impossible for this scam to happen, but very unlikely, and you're never going to stamp out scams completely from any type of account so it's not that relevant or big of an issue I don't think.
legendary
Activity: 1789
Merit: 1008
Keep it dense, yeah?
If a scammer wanna scam he will do it with bought accounts or without them, also i dont think that a hero member with green trust will sell his account and thats the only way to scam a bigger amount

You don't have to be a hero member with green trust to be trusted. I've seen people allegedly selling a Senior with green trust. They could surely use that account to play out a few decent, simultaneous cons.

And that's why the feedback system shouldn't be considered definitive and used just as a guide. It's not that difficult to effectively "buy" or acquire positive trust around here. It's unlikely that the person selling the account is going to be an active and valued member of the community regardless of the feedback so if you're  not familar with that user you should be cautious, and as I stated above, if you use escrow for every trade then you should be fine.

I was thinking more if the bought account with trust were to act as escrow and then con.
global moderator
Activity: 3990
Merit: 2713
Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!
If a scammer wanna scam he will do it with bought accounts or without them, also i dont think that a hero member with green trust will sell his account and thats the only way to scam a bigger amount

You don't have to be a hero member with green trust to be trusted. I've seen people allegedly selling a Senior with green trust. They could surely use that account to play out a few decent, simultaneous cons.

And that's why the feedback system shouldn't be considered definitive and used just as a guide. It's not that difficult to effectively "buy" or acquire positive trust around here. It's unlikely that the person selling the account is going to be an active and valued member of the community regardless of the feedback so if you're  not familar with that user you should be cautious, and as I stated above, if you use escrow for every trade then you should be fine.

It should have never been allowed in the first place... There are -absolutely- no pros from being able to buy accounts, unless you're a scammer.

Well the admin/mods reasoning/logic is that it's essentially very hard or nearly impossible to enforce or police, so it's allowed. And there are big pros for people buying them to use on signature deals and that is what most are seemingly sold for and not to actually scam.
legendary
Activity: 978
Merit: 1001
It should have never been allowed in the first place... There are -absolutely- no pros from being able to buy accounts, unless you're a scammer.
legendary
Activity: 1789
Merit: 1008
Keep it dense, yeah?
I think a lot of people want to buy Senior and Hero accounts because of the sig campaigns.

Without a doubt, and with some of the prices you see people advertising Senior accounts for (assuming that they aren't going to scam) then you can break even pretty darn quick.

Personally I reckon that scammers will take advantage of that fact.

 If a scammer wanna scam he will do it with bought accounts or without them, also i dont think that a hero member with green trust will sell his account and thats the only way to scam a bigger amount

You don't have to be a hero member with green trust to be trusted. I've seen people allegedly selling a Senior with green trust. They could surely use that account to play out a few decent, simultaneous cons.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
My personal view is that 99% of time the only reason someone would be looking to buy an account is to defraud and steal from other forum members.

I think you're very wrong on this. Probably 99% of people buy higher activity accounts to participate in signature deals. It's up to the community to use their wits and not trust a user with no trade history or feedback just because he's a Snr or Hero Member. If you use escrow as you should then there shouldn't be any problems.

I personally dislike it, because someone could easily buy a new account and scam with it. But, I mean you should be cautious regardless of who you trade with.

Why buy one when you can just create an account? Most scammers are from newb accounts or long-conners but you can't do anything about them. Again, if you use escor you should be fine.

Very true also...unless a scammer gets his hands on some sort of escrow account (doubtful) then why would anyone do a deal in the first place without an escrow.
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