Should this forum ban the use of chatbots and AI entirely? - page 2.

AVE5

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Quote from: coin-investor on June 30, 2024, 06:27:34 AM

It's been two days and three pages on his thread, and he still hasn't shown it; I got it. Maybe he is trying to get the best answers to his AI and chatbot figuring out the best defense for his question.
Should this forum entirely ban the use of chatbots and AI?

When you rely on AI and chatbots, you're not trusting your logic and opinion. If you used to rely on AI and chatbots for your answers even without copy-pasting only for output, you are giving yourself an edge over the members of this forum, which is not right.

It really feels irritating how a forum user could be boasting about being a critical thinker to solve problems or how you'd be unique to the quest where there're many others when they relies their abilities on AI or bots.
If the use of AI or chatbosts were enabled in the forum, the literally this forum wouldn't be relevant because we can also clear our doubts and findings through the AIs while in our respective being without the forum.
Hence, this forum is trying to profer advanced ideals from users by their logical contributes that's why chatbots or the AI isn't permitted here.

xLays

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I think this topic has been discussed many times. Same responses, different dates and usernames. It's like, just let it be. Let them post and if you think the poster is AI generated, then report it. Let the forum moderator decide if the post should be deleted.

Always remember this from the report note:

Quote

Do not worry about your accuracy too much; one accurate report is worth many inaccurate reports.

GxSTxV

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Quote from: ditec_wrogn on June 28, 2024, 03:18:35 PM

What do you all think about the use of chatbots and AI in this forum?

I believe it's not fair when someone without any efforts can post and perform better than someone who puts immense effort into creating high quality posts, topics and sharing his large knowledge in this field. Imagine someone joined years ago and being a long time participant in the Bitcoin and crypto community, making much effort and contributing to discussions and building a reputation on Bitcointalk. Then, within a few months someone using ChatGPT and AI tools just surpassing you that easy, gaining more recognition and opportunities for jobs and trades, without much efforts.

Isn't it unfair for someone to earn credibility in a field they have no genuine understanding of? Recently, I started a topic in our local section about some members who don't even speak our language or belong to that local region, yet they posted topics and received many merits ( even from me), they were using translation services and probably AI tools also to create posts. Meanwhile, some serious members are doing their best to keep the board with quality posts, meaningful topics and educational content.

I am definitely against the use of AI for creating posts, and not admitting or mentioning its use.

knowngunman

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Quote from: Nwada001 on June 28, 2024, 03:23:11 PM

Do you mean you have been using your chatbot to detect those who are involved in scamming? If so, how is that being done?

AI usage is just equal to plagiarism, and if you make use of a chatbot to get any information and you want to share it with the public (I mean with forum members in this forum), you can equally do that as long as you can give credit that you got your data from the chatbot.

I guess that will be okay. At least you let the people know that this is where you get your information from other than placing it as your findings and trying to outsmart others.

That part caught my attention as well because he also said that he uses it to provide arguments against scammers and wonder whether people debate with scammers now when they are supposed to cut off the conversation as soon as they notice suspicious behavior.

On several occasions, the issues concerning the usage of AI has been discussed and addressed before and there is a thread(s) where such posts are being reported. Everyone is familiar with internet and can have access to these technological tools if interested. I would advise to suggest the use of chat bots to a user who’s in need of help than to do that on their behalf and give reference link. One might be carried away sometimes and would probably forget to get a reference link.

BitcoinGirl.Club

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Quote from: Lucius on June 30, 2024, 04:46:33 AM

A permanent ban is never issued hastily, even when it comes to cases where plagiarism is more than evident.

I can not remember it for a permanent ban but as far as I can remember there were some cases where members were temp ban for small mistakes like joining a giveaway thread which was not a giveaway thread but it looked like a giveaway thread and things like that.

Quote from: Lucius on June 30, 2024, 04:46:33 AM

What, in my opinion, is the biggest problem is actually the lack of rules regarding the use of AI on the forum, and if you don't have rules, then some members obviously think that they can write their posts with the help of AI.

First of all we need a clear clause to add in the unofficial rules, then we can think about the rest.

coin-investor

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It's been two days and three pages on his thread, and he still hasn't shown it; I got it. Maybe he is trying to get the best answers to his AI and chatbot figuring out the best defense for his question.
Should this forum entirely ban the use of chatbots and AI?

When you rely on AI and chatbots, you're not trusting your logic and opinion. If you used to rely on AI and chatbots for your answers even without copy-pasting only for output, you are giving yourself an edge over the members of this forum, which is not right.

Lucius

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Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on June 29, 2024, 09:31:21 AM

Quote from: Lucius on June 29, 2024, 09:16:05 AM

If using AI inappropriately is the same as plagiarism, I guess the punishment should be the same.

I see a problem though. Plagiarism can be proved with concrete evidences but it is not going to be easy to bring concrete prove against AI written texts. The tools we saw that developed are not 100% reliable too. You are likely to response to a false positive and a user may receive a punishment that he does not deserve.

A permanent ban is never issued hastily, even when it comes to cases where plagiarism is more than evident. The same method would also be applied when assessing whether someone used AI or not, and regardless of the fact that AI detecting tools are not 100% accurate, the use of AI can be determined with great certainty through the detection of several posts of specific user with multiple tools. There can always be mistakes, but if you look at the AI Spam Report Reference Thread, you will hardly find a case where this was the case.

What, in my opinion, is the biggest problem is actually the lack of rules regarding the use of AI on the forum, and if you don't have rules, then some members obviously think that they can write their posts with the help of AI.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: hilariousandco on June 28, 2024, 04:06:11 PM

In certain circumstances it could be ok as long as it's quoted and noted that it's AI generated content in a similar way that another's work you are relaying should be quoted and sourced. If it's not then it's the same as plagiarism to me.

I'm having trouble imagining under what kind of circumstances the use of AI would be alright in the context of making posts here. You might have some ideas, but we both know that any tool that would allow retarded shitposters to make coherent posts that they'd otherwise not be able to form with their own brains would be abused to no end. And if exceptions are made, then members who get banned are going to appeal in Meta and it's going to be an enormous shit show.

I say make a rule forbidding any use of AI programs that aid in generation of posts--unless there are very clear exceptions that make sense. Unless there's a rule like that, this forum is in serious trouble. How long do y'all think it'll be until it's just AI bots appearing to make posts related to whatever topic a thread is about? It won't be long, so 1) we need firm rules, and 2) those rules need to be enforced mercilessly.

It wasn't so long ago that the quality of "discussion" being had on bitcointalk dropped so low that Theymos came up with the merit system. AI tools in the hands of greedy scumbags who can't write will make that problem seem like a temporarily glitched pixel.

lovesmayfamilis

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Quote from: Coyster on June 29, 2024, 03:56:29 PM

Quote from: Lucius on June 29, 2024, 09:16:05 AM

In that case, the administration should take a position that would be clear, and if everyone (or the majority) shares your opinion, then it should not happen that some members, even after several dozen reported posts do not receive even a temporary ban due to the use of AI. If using AI inappropriately is the same as plagiarism, I guess the punishment should be the same.

I've seen quite a lot of tools wrongly detect a post as AI generated, when it actually isn't. I know you can say it has to pass through several tools before a conclusion can be reached, but if one tool is saying it isn't AI generated and another is saying it is, the accused user has an argument and banning them outrightly might not be possible. Using AI chatbot to post can only attract the same punishment as plagiarism, if it can be completely proven that the post is AI generated without any false positives.

If you were observant, as _BlackStar rightly pointed out, you would see that we use several tools to identify posts written by AI, and only based on their overall output can a person be accused of using a chatbot. Moreover, by checking a huge number of posts, those who use these tools can even determine at a glance whether a person wrote the text himself or not.
Today, there are already tools that give accurate results, and after testing, all other tools also show AI texts. In addition, you can always check the posts of several people for comparison and make sure that all other posts will be identified as written by a person. But messages from a person accused of using AI will still be identified as being written by a bot.

If the forum is indifferent to those who use AI to write posts, then the forum will turn into a place where robots communicate with each other, losing the meaning of communication and humanity.

As children, we often played with dolls and talked to them. Is anyone ready to look like a child talking to a robot while naively thinking that it is a person?

_BlackStar

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Quote from: Coyster on June 29, 2024, 03:56:29 PM

Quote from: Lucius on June 29, 2024, 09:16:05 AM

-snip-

I've seen quite a lot of tools wrongly detect a post as AI generated, when it actually isn't. I know you can say it has to pass through several tools before a conclusion can be reached, but if one tool is saying it isn't AI generated and another is saying it is, the accused user has an argument and banning them outrightly might not be possible. Using AI chatbot to post can only attract the same punishment as plagiarism, if it can be completely proven that the post is AI generated without any false positives.

Sometimes what you say is true - however, if an AI detection tool says it's an AI-generated post, then it's most likely true. You can use some detection tools as used by some users in this thread - so this will prevent you from making the wrong decision that someone is posting with AI.

I think @nutildah and @lovesmayfamilis and some other user are pretty good at this. Check out their work in the thread I referenced below:

1. AI Spam Report Reference Thread

Stable090

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Quote from: ditec_wrogn on June 28, 2024, 03:18:35 PM

Hey everyone,

So I've been using a chatbot to help me detect scammy behavior and provide arguments against scammers, and I've gotten mixed reactions to it. Some people appreciate the flags and scam accusations I've made with the help of my chatbot, while others think it's insincere or even cheating.

Why can’t you just make all those scammy behavior arguments yourself? Why do you have to make use of AI? You are supposed to post your opinion on the forum here without making use of AI. I see people posting with AI as a lazy set of people, and they have nothing to offer the forum. Everyone can decide to post with AI, but it doesn’t make sense. If you are posting, then make sure you are the one writing the post yourself.

Quote from: ditec_wrogn on June 28, 2024, 03:18:35 PM

I've noticed that some people don't like the use of chatbots in this forum, and I'm cool with that. But I haven't seen any official petitions or discussions about it, so I thought I'd bring it up here.

Since lots of people are against the use of AI, then it’s just better you stop making use of it. Posting with AI isn’t really benefiting the forum in any way. We want to see people posting their opinions and not just spamming with AI posts.

SatoPrincess

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Quote from: ditec_wrogn on June 28, 2024, 03:18:35 PM

What do you all think about the use of chatbots and AI in this forum? Should they be allowed, or should this forum totally ban their usage? I'm curious to hear what you all think! I'll be sure to reply to what everyone has to say next week, but for now, I hope you all have a great weekend!

I can’t find the thread right now but I’m pretty sure the use of AI in the forum has been discussed before. I believe nutildah was the creator of that topic and it was popular opinion then that the use of AI would do more harm than good to the forum. If you want to be a scambuster, you can do so without the use of AI. There are websites like scamadviser.com that one can use to detect scam sites. I checked the scam reports your post history and none of them look like they need the help of AI to find.

acroman08

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Quote from: ditec_wrogn on June 28, 2024, 03:18:35 PM

What do you all think about the use of chatbots and AI in this forum? Should they be allowed, or should this forum totally ban their usage? I'm curious to hear what you all think! I'll be sure to reply to what everyone has to say next week, but for now, I hope you all have a great weekend!

I don't mind if people use it on their own if they have questions that they want to be answered, but if they start using it on this forum to reply to forum posts and make it look like it is their own content, then that is a problem, that is basically plagiarism and plagiarism it is a bannable offense.

Coyster

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Quote from: Lucius on June 29, 2024, 09:16:05 AM

In that case, the administration should take a position that would be clear, and if everyone (or the majority) shares your opinion, then it should not happen that some members, even after several dozen reported posts do not receive even a temporary ban due to the use of AI. If using AI inappropriately is the same as plagiarism, I guess the punishment should be the same.

I've seen quite a lot of tools wrongly detect a post as AI generated, when it actually isn't. I know you can say it has to pass through several tools before a conclusion can be reached, but if one tool is saying it isn't AI generated and another is saying it is, the accused user has an argument and banning them outrightly might not be possible. Using AI chatbot to post can only attract the same punishment as plagiarism, if it can be completely proven that the post is AI generated without any false positives.

Kavelj22

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Quote from: Helena Yu on June 29, 2024, 05:39:30 AM

Quote from: Kavelj22 on June 28, 2024, 05:39:50 PM

and therefore they will not stop using AI (I noticed many accounts posting In the gambling section in a completely suspicious way, but it is not easy to prove manipulation)

Those users want to show if they have an interest to gambling, since we all know most campaigns right now are promoting gambling, when they already earn sufficient activity and merit, they will apply the campaign and raise the chance to get accepted. They don't want the managers or other users to judge if they shift or change their posting habit just to fill campaign requirements.

What I noticed is that many of these members' posts seem completely inconsistent, as how is it possible for someone to provide accurate analyzes of cricket, boxing, and even hockey and rugby at the same time? I cannot believe that anyone in the world has analytical ability in all of these games at the same time, and when you see the content of the posts, you notice accuracy in the analysis and opinions that appear sound and logical to the extent that raises doubt. It's too good to be true.

Campaign managers are not required to criticize the posting behavior of campaign participants because they will not find any incriminating evidence. If the writing language is sound and the ideas are clear, he will not have anything to raise suspicions. Fortunately, some honest members are interested in scrutinizing the posting behavior of some accounts, especially those who participate in campaigns that pay in Bitcoin.

KingsDen

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Quote from: ditec_wrogn on June 28, 2024, 03:18:35 PM

What do you all think about the use of chatbots and AI in this forum? Should they be allowed, or should this forum totally ban their usage? I'm curious to hear what you all think! I'll be sure to reply to what everyone has to say next week, but for now, I hope you all have a great weekend!

I keep telling newbies that there are no hard rules in this forum. Here is the most lovely and accommodating place only if you are sincere to yourself and to the community members. When we talk about plagerism, not all who plagiarise are penalized. It is treated in a case by case base. Most times, what is considered is the intention of the plagiarist. Whereby the plagiarist intention wasn't to claim ownership of an idea or to monetize their posts, such a plagiarist might be forgiven.

Likewise in AI usage;

If you have a proven way to use your chatbot to detect scammers without littering the forum with generic texts, please prove it and you might be allowed to use same.
If you use your chat bot occasionally and you are able to reference it by quoting. I think you won't be penalized only if it's not a continuous deliberate act.
In all, try to communicate here as a human. Share feelings with one another. If here eventually becomes an AI forum, even you will not like it. Just imagine that I am using a bot to reply to this your thread, how will you understand or enjoy the flow.

BitcoinGirl.Club

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Quote from: Lucius on June 29, 2024, 09:16:05 AM

If using AI inappropriately is the same as plagiarism, I guess the punishment should be the same.

I see a problem though. Plagiarism can be proved with concrete evidences but it is not going to be easy to bring concrete prove against AI written texts. The tools we saw that developed are not 100% reliable too. You are likely to response to a false positive and a user may receive a punishment that he does not deserve.

Lucius

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Quote from: hilariousandco on June 28, 2024, 04:06:11 PM

Currently there are no rules but AI posting shouldn't be allowed for people to just copy and paste responses with no effort. In certain circumstances it could be ok as long as it's quoted and noted that it's AI generated content in a similar way that another's work you are relaying should be quoted and sourced. If it's not then it's the same as plagiarism to me.

In that case, the administration should take a position that would be clear, and if everyone (or the majority) shares your opinion, then it should not happen that some members, even after several dozen reported posts do not receive even a temporary ban due to the use of AI. If using AI inappropriately is the same as plagiarism, I guess the punishment should be the same.

BitcoinGirl.Club

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Quote from: Sandra_hakeem on June 28, 2024, 05:32:43 PM

Quote from: Vod on June 28, 2024, 03:28:02 PM

I'd like to know your definition of AI, as most online services can be considered same.

What's considered AI today isn't even authentic... Just some human fabricated text; Imagine asking for a description/detailing on an inventory and/ house plan for a certain pattern of an architecture and you got 'em filling you up with copied and already licensed plan... Sometimes, they change or convert the designs but in real sense, it's the same thing. Does it generate a thing on it's own? I don't think so.

With chatGPT someone can create a small mobile application. It means based on your instructions the AI is writing codes for you. This is useful though. AI is good when it is helping you to solve an equation, a complex mathematics. But AI is not good to manager resources from the internet, arrange them in a database then give you the copy/pasted article to create a journal for you.

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Quote from: ditec_wrogn on June 28, 2024, 03:18:35 PM

Hey everyone,

So I've been using a chatbot to help me detect scammy behavior and provide arguments against scammers, and I've gotten mixed reactions to it. Some people appreciate the flags and scam accusations I've made with the help of my chatbot, while others think it's insincere or even cheating.

I've noticed that some people don't like the use of chatbots in this forum, and I'm cool with that. But I haven't seen any official petitions or discussions about it, so I thought I'd bring it up here.

What do you all think about the use of chatbots and AI in this forum? Should they be allowed, or should this forum totally ban their usage? I'm curious to hear what you all think! I'll be sure to reply to what everyone has to say next week, but for now, I hope you all have a great weekend!

To an extent what you are trying to gain is commendable. Mu question is does it solve the problemm? It does not as their are multiple ways to deceive your search to find AI generated content. Staying with the topic, what makes you think that BTT will be existing when a lot of new discussion boards are gaining popularity.

As to my understanding a discussion forum like reddit is already in the process of making it more monetize globally. This is will be the end of an era where discussion was decentralized. For now we are still dependent on the admin.

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