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Topic: Silk Road Founder Ross Ulbricht Sentenced to Life in Prison - page 4. (Read 50169 times)

donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1014
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
He was running a website with the explicit purpose of selling illegal goods and services
Did he explicitly require that activity for participation? Just because it was thought by some to be an optimal medium for that activity, doesn't mean it was there for that explicit purpose. It was a website using TOR. TOR was created by the military. Neither the inventor of websites, nor the inventor of TOR created them for the purpose of illegal activity. If he was a fan of that activity, that also doesn't make it any more illegal than the publications available under the protection of the First Ammendment. If he participated in the activity of selling illicit goods and/or services, that would be another matter. Besides, these goods and services are not illicit everywhere his website served. His biggest mistake was being a US citizen.

He doesn't have to require it.

It was clear however that he specifically encouraged it - hence why his operation was a criminal operation.

-=-

And his crime wasn't being a US citizen, his crime was breaking US law.

Being outside this country does not mean you can run a narcotics website that accepts business inside the United States.

Why do you think so many gambling web sites blacklist U.S. IP addresses?

Because if they didn't, they would be violating U.S. law and could be arrested if they ever came here - whether or not they are US citizens. Hell they don't even have to come here to be arrested if the country they are in has an extradition treaty with the U.S.

Know the laws of the country you are doing business in. Don't do business in countries where your business is illegal.
Wise advice. Good thing they stopped drug trafficking in their country.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1393
You lead and I'll watch you walk away.
Why is anyone still even thinking about freeing him. He's gone, it's over. Even if he was released he's a wasted shell of his former self by now. It's hard to live a normal life with PTSD. American prisons are not luxury retreats. His mind is fucked at this point.
legendary
Activity: 3990
Merit: 1385
I have been hearing rumors that his life sentence would be lessened to 50 years.
I do not know if this is true.
Anyways I am also wondering what are the donation money being used for since no change has been done to the verdict after several attempts of appealing.

I'm not opposed to that, life I think was harsh.
For the crime he committed *and convicted of*, 10 years is probably just.

But it appeared to me that he was guilty of crimes that should get him life. However he needs to be tried for those crimes.

And, again. Ross never required that some harmed or damaged person come forward show the harm or damage that he did to them. In addition, there wasn't even evidence of harm or damage presented by government.

Since the above are required by law if the defendant requires them, it was Ross getting screwed by his attorneys who never suggested that he demand these things.

See http://voidjudgments.com/.

Any time that Ross wants to get out, he can declare the judgment against him a void judgment, and it needs to be done over, with the requirements being fulfilled. So, he is screwing himself, except if he likes his nice, cozy, warm place in prison.

Cool
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 107
I have been hearing rumors that his life sentence would be lessened to 50 years.
I do not know if this is true.
Anyways I am also wondering what are the donation money being used for since no change has been done to the verdict after several attempts of appealing.

I'm not opposed to that, life I think was harsh.
For the crime he committed *and convicted of*, 10 years is probably just.

But it appeared to me that he was guilty of crimes that should get him life. However he needs to be tried for those crimes.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 502
I have been hearing rumors that his life sentence would be lessened to 50 years.
I do not know if this is true.
Anyways I am also wondering what are the donation money being used for since no change has been done to the verdict after several attempts of appealing.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 107
He was running a website with the explicit purpose of selling illegal goods and services
Did he explicitly require that activity for participation? Just because it was thought by some to be an optimal medium for that activity, doesn't mean it was there for that explicit purpose. It was a website using TOR. TOR was created by the military. Neither the inventor of websites, nor the inventor of TOR created them for the purpose of illegal activity. If he was a fan of that activity, that also doesn't make it any more illegal than the publications available under the protection of the First Ammendment. If he participated in the activity of selling illicit goods and/or services, that would be another matter. Besides, these goods and services are not illicit everywhere his website served. His biggest mistake was being a US citizen.

He doesn't have to require it.

It was clear however that he specifically encouraged it - hence why his operation was a criminal operation.

-=-

And his crime wasn't being a US citizen, his crime was breaking US law.

Being outside this country does not mean you can run a narcotics website that accepts business inside the United States.

Why do you think so many gambling web sites blacklist U.S. IP addresses?

Because if they didn't, they would be violating U.S. law and could be arrested if they ever came here - whether or not they are US citizens. Hell they don't even have to come here to be arrested if the country they are in has an extradition treaty with the U.S.

Know the laws of the country you are doing business in. Don't do business in countries where your business is illegal.
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1014
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
He was running a website with the explicit purpose of selling illegal goods and services
Did he explicitly require that activity for participation? Just because it was thought by some to be an optimal medium for that activity, doesn't mean it was there for that explicit purpose. It was a website using TOR. TOR was created by the military. Neither the inventor of websites, nor the inventor of TOR created them for the purpose of illegal activity. If he was a fan of that activity, that also doesn't make it any more illegal than the publications available under the protection of the First Ammendment. If he participated in the activity of selling illicit goods and/or services, that would be another matter. Besides, these goods and services are not illicit everywhere his website served. His biggest mistake was being a US citizen.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 107
Has he been tried for hiring a hitman yet, I think his sentence is for running a website not anything to do with a murder attempt or threat.   That doesnt usually result in life without parole in any case, he was sentenced by politically motivated opponents wont be the last time

He wasn't just running a website.

He was running a website with the explicit purpose of selling illegal goods and services, and once you do that, it becomes conspiracy.

If I sell dope on Tumblr. Tumblr is protected because that is not the purpose for which Tumblr exists.

Selling dope and other illegal goods and services however was the purpose for which silk road existed.
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1017

I think that we're on the same team here.  We need to start fixing our system from the top down instead of the
bottom up.  Instead of disarming citizens by attacking the Bill of Rights, disarm big money by limiting their control over the populace.  What many US citizens forget here is that the power of the US Constitution lies in the fact that the people have the power to enforce it if need be.  Bitcoin and its ability to decentralize the control of the flow of "money" is the means by which we might achieve those goals.  Instead of attacking people like Ulbricht, we should be concentrating on the solutions to fixing our corrupted economical power base.  I believe that an attack on Ulbricht is an attack on the Bitcoin community in general!
Capitalism goes hand in hand with democracy and the diversified money flow helps to stem many failed ideas from growing too large.  Where as a large centralised monetised form of government is a snake with two heads and hard to stop no matter how wrong it becomes, not that I oppose government but unrestrained in its funding they can make gigantic mistakes that wider society still has to pay for since money can never be free but is nationally diverted labour and production.   At the moment they borrow and that cost is bought from abroad but eventually it will not pay for itself but cost others lost purchasing power on their dollar etc

Quote
Punishing Ulbricht can't really be compared to a worldwide recession. In a recession many factors come together to create an economic decline. There is no one industry or business to blame and there certainly isn't one individual to blame. I suppose you could blame most of the problem on the mortgage industry that allowed 3-1 and 5-1 arm mortgages with unbearable balloon payments to crush the banks with foreclosures but how do you punish them? That's different from punishing an individual that committed a crime against society.
How the banks are punished is that when their loans do not repay, that business fails and no longer exists.  Working parts are passed onto more steady hands to manage and pay off debt.   That is the cost of capital that you lose ownership if your efforts are not profitable to justify the ideas and setup used.   The main reason this didnt happen is the banks were acting on a government scheme and it was government who had been wrong in encouraging what was a failed idea, so they diverted what should have been a collapse of that idea.   Comparatively if bitcoin had a fatal flaw or if mt.gox was propped up by Ulbricht it would be a nonsense, but I imagine with enough money diverted he may have done it.  People would hate that idea but thats basically the dollar system, lopsided to rely on certain ideas to balance the books and nobody dares challenge that weakness or deal with its failure

That's the most rational and accurate argument I've seen so far. I do agree that capitalism is a flawed system that unwittingly creates favoritism in its treatment of certain market sectors. At best it promotes inequity and at worst it supports devastating failures. Voodoo economics, trickle down theory, Obama's bailout bonanza, Carter's ignore it economics, Clinton and Nixon's outright economic corruption are all testimony to the failure of the current system. Auto manufacturer bailouts and bank bailouts are a joke played on the American people.

What can you do about it? That's the real question and the impossible task at hand. The core of the problem and the reason for the lack of change is blinding in its simplicity. The American people have a standard of living that is just good enough to keep them pacified and content. Historically, strife and pain have fueled rebellion. US citizens are too fat, dumb and happy to rebel. Oh sure, they crawl on top of their soapbox occasionally, holding the keys to their new car in one hand and a Big Mac in the other, preaching about this minor issue or that one but always afraid to really change anything for fear of losing it all. This situation will continue until every God fearin merican really knows suffering.

Are you forgetting Reagan's Iran-Contra incident and his Reaganomics?  We seem to forgive some of the biggest corruptions in our society, in return for a stronger government, but at the same time, complain about its inequities when it comes back to bite us in the ass.
STT
legendary
Activity: 4102
Merit: 1454
Has he been tried for hiring a hitman yet, I think his sentence is for running a website not anything to do with a murder attempt or threat.   That doesnt usually result in life without parole in any case, he was sentenced by politically motivated opponents wont be the last time
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1026
Mining since 2010 & Hosting since 2012
Places like silk road only do one thing and that causes more problems than cures and gives Bitcoin and other crypto a bad name for all the illegal activity's that where conducted on them. Cracking down on them and putting a stop to them I agree to. People who use places like silk road take the risk and are fully aware if things go wrong. When I was on it the amount of stuff that could be bought was a shock to me after seeing so many bad things and services you could buy with a click of a button and a payment of coin. Once all places like Silk road are stopped the better it will get for Bitcoin to be a much better legal friendly crypto to be used in the future.

I agree, he played with fire and got burned.  Let it serve as a notice to use your talents to do more creative things than make a platform for trading illegal drugs while trashing the name of Bitcoin with your dealings and playing mafia with your hits.  Lock em up and throw away the key. 
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1026
Mining since 2010 & Hosting since 2012
No concern at all, he knew what he was doing and in the end the same thing that has fallen many men, fell him, arrogance and greed.  He thought we could be beyond the laws in some libertarian fantasy.  In reality, there are states, laws, policy, instinct and common sense.  He is no hero or martyr.  Just another ego that got out of control.  

-D
This reminds me of Irwin Schiff who has been held 10 years for 'evading tax' and writing a book about it.   He at no point attempted to deceive or misled IRS just argue his case (ie. tax was not applicable) for which he received a similar harsh sentence as an example.   Clearly he is not the master criminal Ulbricht could be cast as but they are both naive in objecting or thinking they have a choice to wilfully object, (arrogant not to move abroad as many would)and the states reaction seems similar in that.
  He currently is 87 and is dying from terminal lung cancer yet cannot let be free for fear of being too soft on any threat to the superstate system.   I doubt Ulbricht gets any justice while he is also seen as any threat, any laws can be arranged if so desired to make progress unlikely.  If they cant even let out a book author after ten years who is going to die very soon, I dont see them extending any mercy elsewhere it would be seen as weakness within their ranks or something

That comparison is laughable at best.  No comparison, DRP got what he deserved.  We have an appeal process if he felt he got a raw real but I am quite sure he will be rotting in jail.  Hiring hitman on people and the such, you deserve to be kept from society.  We don't need trash like that.  Also it give Bitcoin a bad name and we don't need that with all the other negative press.  Good riddance.
legendary
Activity: 3080
Merit: 1500
America is showing it's fascist face....really sad!
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 107
This guy shouldn't go to prison for life.

If the allegations of the murder for hire are true, then yes.

Remember this is a guy who both experimented with drugs in high school and passed an Eagle Scout board of review.

The two of those are not easy to do, the former usually precludes the latter - at least when I was in scouts. He's good at fooling people.

The murder for hire had nothing to do with this case. It's a completely separate deal, perhaps he'll get ten years added to his life sentence for that stunt.

Speakin' of, I wonder if Curtis Green has logged in lately on this forum. I pawned him pretty good the last time he was here. I guess he didn't like the part where I caught his ass fuckin' his daughter. Seriously! Probably why his TV deal went south. HAHAHA

The murder for hire had nothing to do with this case but if true, then he deserves life. Yes, he should be tried for those allegations.
vip
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1145
This guy shouldn't go to prison for life.

If the allegations of the murder for hire are true, then yes.

Remember this is a guy who both experimented with drugs in high school and passed an Eagle Scout board of review.

The two of those are not easy to do, the former usually precludes the latter - at least when I was in scouts. He's good at fooling people.

The murder for hire had nothing to do with this case. It's a completely separate deal, perhaps he'll get ten years added to his life sentence for that stunt.

Speakin' of, I wonder if Curtis Green has logged in lately on this forum. I pawned him pretty good the last time he was here. I guess he didn't like the part where I caught his ass fuckin' his daughter. Seriously! Probably why his TV deal went south. HAHAHA
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 107
This guy shouldn't go to prison for life.

If the allegations of the murder for hire are true, then yes.

Remember this is a guy who both experimented with drugs in high school and passed an Eagle Scout board of review.

The two of those are not easy to do, the former usually precludes the latter - at least when I was in scouts. He's good at fooling people.
sr. member
Activity: 332
Merit: 250
Obviously if DPR was black he would have gotten a lighter sentence, instead we get more racial inequality.

Kill a man, get 30 years. Two days after being release, kill mother. Get 25 years. Run a certain type of website, get life without parole.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/02/19/new-jersey-man-completes-30-year-murder-sentence-only-to-kill-mother-two-days-later/?tid=hybrid_experimentrandom_1_na
vip
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1145
Kill a man, get 30 years. Two days after being release, kill mother. Get 25 years. Run a certain type of website, get life without parole.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/02/19/new-jersey-man-completes-30-year-murder-sentence-only-to-kill-mother-two-days-later/?tid=hybrid_experimentrandom_1_na
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
This guy shouldn't go to prison for life.
"who has already auctioned off his Bitcoins."
Government is a greedy party, they probably care more about money than they do about their country/jurisdiction.
Why blame the guy who made the silk road instead of the ones who are offering the services or actually buying them. It's not his fault that people buy drugs, sell drugs, etc. If not the silk road, then they would still find a way to sell their services. 1 goes down, 10 come up. We need to do something about this.
staff
Activity: 3500
Merit: 6152
Some updates , Silk Road Operator Ross Ulbricht Seeks New Trial in Appeal : http://www.coindesk.com/silk-road-operator-ross-ulbricht-seeks-new-trial-in-appeal/
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