Topic: SkepsiDyne Integrated Node - The Bitcoin Mining Company - page 31. (Read 104236 times)

Sorry but in an ipo shares which are not sold are unissued, that means they cannot be used for voting rights etc...

I think we have just found out an issue with this market?

Phil

OH, I see. Because they're in the same account, you'd be voting with all shares on the account, so as far as voting is concerned, you have 8k+ shares.

My mistake.

This is getting really out of hand guys... I have over 8000 shares in my portfolio because only 1600 out of 10000 have sold.

Sorry can u repeat that comment???

Phil

You bought around 3000 of the 4999 sold to the public? How is that possible?

Due to the feedback from shareholders, that is no longer going to be the deal, so rest assured we will not be giving 950+ shares for 3.8 Ghash/sec.  What Sukrim suggested was a fair trade in shares for cards, which would more or less simply take out the steps where I transfer the BTC off of GLBSE, put them on an exchange, transfer them to Dwolla, transfer them to my bank account, then spend them on cards.

I actually own over 8000 shares so the point is rather moot.  As I said before, I will not ignore shareholder wishes unless I think that they are not in the best interest of the company.  I'm pretty sure vote results can be seen using the tally command, but that could be just for the person who created the motion, I'm not sure, but either way, I do publish the results of votes.

K when I say 20 cards I mean if u are selling hash rate as u plan to. U are saying 3.8gh/s is worth 900+ shares.

That means. 6990 is worth a min of 160 shares. Hence a $1800 valuation at The current offer rate.

When I talk about losing dividends shareholders like me who bought on the idea u were building machines not purchasing power (which is not mentioned in the contract), bought shares assuming that the ipo money would be used effectively. U are talking about $15k of shares being offered for 3.8gh/s. That is just wrong for he initial investors ( yes BTC price has changed but we are still talking or should be talking best investment for share holds not badly run competitors). You should be expecting around 10-15gh/s for thos number of shares at the current market price of BTC. so basically people oh have shares are now getting a lower rate of Mh/s due to yourndown grade policy.

1400 shares currently sold got us what 8-9gh/s. As per your graphs are showing.

Yup are now offering 900+ shares for 3.8gh/s. can u now see the difference?

I understand everyone wanting to sell out the ipo, but this is not the way to go.
 
As I have said if u want to cheat the ipo to get a higher hash rate, I will be willing to sell 6990's for shares but I think personally I would be gaining a don't he other share holders which is wrong..

as per voting level. U own 50% + 1 shares but what I means for an issue like this where shareholder value gets reduced will u just ignore the result. Wll u publish the voting? Etc...

This all concerns me as I purchased a new block of shares today.

Phil

If he prices the shares at ~BTC market value converted to USD and then converted to a fair aftermarket value for each card, this should be a quite fair deal for everybody involved (just be aware that the dishwara deal is NOT fair by any means).

No, you need 51% of shares and votes, not 50% + 1 share. Read your own contract!

If you need to have 2 BTC, 1 BTC + 1 Satoshi isn't enough as well, right?

20 cards at  ~$2000 per card.  3391 shares are left in the IPO, which is ~2500 BTC, which is about $40k.


I don't understand how people would be "losing" dividends (edit: as long as the shares were issued based on the value of the hardware being traded for), by that logic I should stop selling all IPO shares.

My level of voting is that I get however many shares of the IPO have sold + 1 votes, which means I have the final decision in all matters.  I do listen to shareholders however, otherwise I wouldn't bother making any motions.  I appreciate the opinions and ideas of the shareholders, they often come up with good ideas and solutions to problems.

Actually thinking about it more you should not offer to purchase any equipment in this manner.

As mentioned earlier it basically reduces value in previously sold shares. that means the current people who hold 1400 shares or there abouts will see a significant reduction in dividends.

I certainly would take advantage place if u offered it but I think, U are basically selling shares at under (ipo value) / basically ignoring the ipo conditions. And this is the same with the buyout offer.

Btw what level of voting on shares are u taking notice on? Ie if u get only 10% voting on a motion Are u listening and if not which way are company decisions going?

Phil

The one thing you would also need to consider is the hardware to run the cards, but that is cheap in comparrision. so would need some hard cash coming in.

Also this could eat through the remaining ipo shares with an extra what 20 cards?

Phil

That's actually a pretty good idea.

Yeah, 1 share for every ~4 MH/s (3800/968) sounds like a great deal to me too!

I'd gladly send you a few GPUs for a few dozen/hundred shares at that price.
Actually 58xx GPUs are anyways relatively easy to come by at least in Europe, so you could really try to buy some (for a SANE price, not for these prices!) for shares in exchange.

You could put up a price list and people would send you their GPU(s) + a note with their GLBSE UserID to be assigned the shares.
Only problem is that you would need to hand out a postal address... but that should be handleable.

Actually giving 900+ shares to DISHWARA from the IPO actually diminishes the value of the shares held by the current shareholders.

Those shares will diminish the value of future dividends of current shareholders, for very little hash power. If you were offering to buy from someone 10+gh/s for 900 shares I would say fine, as that would be nearly $15k, not 3.8gh/s.

If you can get the price down to 150-300 shares then I would consider it.

Also only purchase the hardware which is useful. Not all of it is needed.

And saying that we should purchase power for what ever price is not a good statement.



Actually, here is an example I just thought of to show why this is wrong at this price.

Say I go out and purchase a 6990. What is that going to cost $800. Well that $800 can produce what about 700mh/s? So that is about 18% of the power DISHWARA's hardware could produce. Now can I sell that to the company for lets say 160 shares. You would all laugh at me. As those 160 shares could effectively be worth $1800, and hence 2 and a bit 6990.

If you do want to purchase power and you want to pay that high a price for it, let me in on it. I will purchase a couple of 6990's and send them to you brand new, unopened. for 160 shares each.


Phil

I have PM'd him about a smaller amount of shares.

The motion that I initiated did not specify prices, so it may need to be redone once we settle on something in this thread.

I'm down to the DISHWARA purchase, but at a lower price. I say offer some votes with multiple options... Sadly, voting is offline and will be for awhile, so...

This is my thought.  Paying 900 shares for 3.8 Ghash/sec, in addition to a bunch of stuff we don't really need, is far better than letting those shares sit there waiting to be sold.  Yes, we don't *need* everything on that list, but we do need hashing power, so if we have to overpay for them, then I say so be it.  We can use the PSU's for future rigs, and we can use the ram, HD and the i5 for a small project I've been thinking up to help maintain the cluster easier.  It isn't like I'm going to take the GPU's and throw the rest of the stuff in the trash.

Once again, we aren't giving dishwara $10,000 USD, we're giving him 968 shares of SIN.  You have to make that distinction.

I will talk to him about a reduced price, but I think it's dishonest to say that we would be paying $10k for 3.8 Ghash/sec.  Our shares are worth what people are willing to pay, and no one has a buy order up worth $10,000 at .75 BTC/share as far as I know.

His gear is worth around $6000 as far as I can tell, so that's about 400 BTC, or 533 shares.  Is this a more acceptable offer?

edit: Also, shares would not be transferred until the assets were received, so dividends wouldn't be split until the added Ghash/sec was contributing to SIN power.

Taking into consideration that:
* shipping from India probably takes quite some time (and is probably expensive too! [EDIT: Checked, he claims it only costs 20 USD])
* a lot of this hardware is of little/no use
* this would make your pool of owned hardware even more diverse (more maintenance necessary, no spare parts)
* the only really useful stuff I can see there are 9 GPUs (and maybe some extenders, if you even use these)
* stuff might break during shipping - and you have very low chances to get reimbursed
* DISHWARA shares are now severely overpriced, as they were valued/calculated initially at 0.7 USD/piece (when 1 BTC was 0.7 USD)

I would strongly advise against this bad deal.

9 GPUs are worth (max!) ~1700USD --> ~100BTC --> ~135 shares

All in all:
If DISHWARA wants to buy shares, he could/should just sell his equipment (either for BTC or INR), get BTC and buy shares as everyone else. If he wants to pay in "hardware", the extra effort for shipping (+ time lost with shipping) and the fact that if something breaks the manufacturer most likely won't reimburse you should be taken into consideration and calculation. [EDIT: I usually buy and sell used hardware for "new_price * 0.75" as a rule of thumb]
In the end he would probably end up with less than if he puts up that stuff back together and sells 1 gaming PC + a few GPUs on eBay and buys BTC + shares for that money then.

If I create a GLBSE "company", valuate it at 1000 BTC, BTC prices shoot up ~25 times later - would you still give me shares worth 1000 BTC for Hardware that is only 1/25th worth of 1000 BTC?
In this case (as Dishwara didn't cash out right at the start), you're suggesting "only" about 10 times overpay, but still.

^this

There's some way over-spec for mining hardware that we just shouldn't buy. Revalue the dishwara offer based on second hand prices for the video cards and second hand prices for properly spec'd mining machines. Until this happens I'm voting against our SIN share being diluted by so much.

The amount of shares DISHWARA receives should be based on the equipment we actually need (and we will take/use) and the hashing power of that equipment.

If we need some equipment for something other than generating hashes, I think Tawsix should purchase it with some generated funds and not IPO shares (perhaps funds from selling said shares though).

If we give DISHWARA X shares, we shouldn't be able to get more hashing capability from (X*.75) BTC worth purchased equipment. And as I said before, the amount of shares should be based  on

• Hashing Power of Assets
• NOT the Value of Assets
• Equipment Acquired That Helps Generate More Hashes

If we don't need an i5, should we take it? I don't see a problem as long as it either helps us generate hashes OR it isn't tacked on top of the shares we pay for hashing capabilities.