Slots 101: Basics, Strategies, and Discussion (with poll) - page 40.

masulum

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hmph..

Quote from: ryzaadit on February 23, 2023, 02:55:45 PM

In-case, we're getting more losing could be the pattern is not working.

It is very difficult to determine whether the pattern is real or not. Because, luck comes without knowing it, when it will be come. To prove the pattern, of course, by trying more often, whether the pattern really exists. in case, we are never get a big loss with pattern, it can be said, the pattern maybe works. If the pattern promise always win or higher chance to get a big win, i think its a dream Grin

Because basically (IMO), every spin we do, whether, manual/auto, slow, fast or turbo, may be we get same result. The only difference is the speed at which the spin is shown to the user, but the reels may remain the same. Who knows, because we never understand how the reel works. For example, if in 1 roll spins, the reel spins 10x stopped in 1 second, the turbo feature still stops the reel 10x but in 0.5 seconds.

Quote from: len01 on February 24, 2023, 02:40:25 AM

I plan today to try the pattern continuously over several sessions. but if this pattern doesn't work well and can't produce a large multiplier, then it's true that the pattern is just a myth.

Appreciate it, let us know your results, after you are trying this few times Cheesy

len01

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Quote from: masulum on February 23, 2023, 07:53:22 AM

If every spin you do doesn't make you run out of all your money, it can be said that the pattern is working. However, if one day you use the pattern, then you keep losing, it means that at that time you were lucky. Maybe if you've tried it a few times later, and the loss is no more than when you start a spin without a pattern, it might be worth to trying this method.

I plan today to try the pattern continuously over several sessions. but if this pattern doesn't work well and can't produce a large multiplier, then it's true that the pattern is just a myth.

last night I tried to play for an hour on Gates Of Olympus without using this pattern and the result is the same, I have neither loss nor gain. because my balance is lost each time, on my next bonus spin purchase I get a good return and previous loss is recovered from that bonus spin purchase.

but before i decided to give up playing slots for a while, came out with a 250x multiplier but got nothing.

BitcoinPanther

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Quote from: seleme on February 23, 2023, 04:59:07 PM

Quote from: Bitinity on February 23, 2023, 01:59:28 AM

Quote from: masulum on February 22, 2023, 06:28:00 AM

Quote from: ryzaadit on February 21, 2023, 01:52:30 PM

My self, first time to see people are knowing while there has some big win pattern Grin

I only know, pattern while you're on-fire section (Keep hitting bonus under 100/50 spin over and over again). But this time funny, to see people are knowing if lines more often connected the big win will come.

IMO, these scenario just like (If we lose more, then next bet are gonna to increase your win chance). While, we all know the chance winning of your bet are still same and lose or win from previous bet are not gonna to increase.

Yup, in slots, many people say that there is a certain pattern to get a big win or even a max-win. But to be honest, I myself do not believe in it. Because, I even get max-win no matter what pattern, all of a sudden I get freespins and max-win is reached. It's that simple when luck is upon us. my nephew often plays Higgs Slots, he tells me about the pattern, maybe for mobile-based games, this pattern is true, because the game is actually not for gambling, but that's also not 100% proven. However, for gambling, it is impossible to implement this pattern because it will make it easier for players to win if someone know how the pattern works.

Pattern such as 30 quick spins, 30 turbo spins then buy free spins. I heard many people (Indonesian) talk about this pattern and some other patterns. I have no idea where did these people find the pattern but I have read something like an article about an ex operator of an online casino who reveal a pattern on how to win on slot games. However at the end of the article the writer says that the best pattern is to stop playing lol.

Lol last line made me laugh.
There is no pattern on slots, random strings reveals next multipliers with special algorithm. I have read someone who is slot developer on provider said it is purely based on math, you can get max win in next spin or on 3bln spins on depending on the luck.

Same here, I thought that the former operator is serious about exposing the weakness of the slots but the at the end, the former operator just advice the reader to stop and not try his expose`.
I was really thinking if that strategy is true but then made me think it was a joke since the person advice people that the best strategy is to stop playing.

Anyway, we all know that the result in slot is random even thought it is predetermine by script when we press spin. So that kind of strategy told by the ex-operator is just a random thing just to have some words to say, at least.

Fivestar4everMVP

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Quote from: seleme on February 23, 2023, 04:59:07 PM

Quote from: Bitinity on February 23, 2023, 01:59:28 AM

Quote from: masulum on February 22, 2023, 06:28:00 AM

Quote from: ryzaadit on February 21, 2023, 01:52:30 PM

My self, first time to see people are knowing while there has some big win pattern Grin

I only know, pattern while you're on-fire section (Keep hitting bonus under 100/50 spin over and over again). But this time funny, to see people are knowing if lines more often connected the big win will come.

IMO, these scenario just like (If we lose more, then next bet are gonna to increase your win chance). While, we all know the chance winning of your bet are still same and lose or win from previous bet are not gonna to increase.

Yup, in slots, many people say that there is a certain pattern to get a big win or even a max-win. But to be honest, I myself do not believe in it. Because, I even get max-win no matter what pattern, all of a sudden I get freespins and max-win is reached. It's that simple when luck is upon us. my nephew often plays Higgs Slots, he tells me about the pattern, maybe for mobile-based games, this pattern is true, because the game is actually not for gambling, but that's also not 100% proven. However, for gambling, it is impossible to implement this pattern because it will make it easier for players to win if someone know how the pattern works.

Pattern such as 30 quick spins, 30 turbo spins then buy free spins. I heard many people (Indonesian) talk about this pattern and some other patterns. I have no idea where did these people find the pattern but I have read something like an article about an ex operator of an online casino who reveal a pattern on how to win on slot games. However at the end of the article the writer says that the best pattern is to stop playing lol.

Lol last line made me laugh.
There is no pattern on slots, random strings reveals next multipliers with special algorithm. I have read someone who is slot developer on provider said it is purely based on math, you can get max win in next spin or on 3bln spins on depending on the luck.

LOL,
The last line is indeed very funny and it made me laugh really hard, I was also asking myself , what then is the essence of looking for patterns to win slot games, when its been revealed and known that the best pattern is to stop playing slot games, really funny people every where.

But even if there is no pattern or strategy to winning on slot games, most gamblers are hungry for something, and definitely would believe that a pattern works, most especially if in the process of trying it, the gambler manages to win out of luck, it is very possible that such a gambler will go about telling others that he or she won because of a pattern or strategy he or she used , and so will other gamblers start using it and hoping they win too and before you know it, such pattern becomes a thing.

seleme

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Quote from: Bitinity on February 23, 2023, 01:59:28 AM

Quote from: masulum on February 22, 2023, 06:28:00 AM

Quote from: ryzaadit on February 21, 2023, 01:52:30 PM

My self, first time to see people are knowing while there has some big win pattern Grin

I only know, pattern while you're on-fire section (Keep hitting bonus under 100/50 spin over and over again). But this time funny, to see people are knowing if lines more often connected the big win will come.

IMO, these scenario just like (If we lose more, then next bet are gonna to increase your win chance). While, we all know the chance winning of your bet are still same and lose or win from previous bet are not gonna to increase.

Yup, in slots, many people say that there is a certain pattern to get a big win or even a max-win. But to be honest, I myself do not believe in it. Because, I even get max-win no matter what pattern, all of a sudden I get freespins and max-win is reached. It's that simple when luck is upon us. my nephew often plays Higgs Slots, he tells me about the pattern, maybe for mobile-based games, this pattern is true, because the game is actually not for gambling, but that's also not 100% proven. However, for gambling, it is impossible to implement this pattern because it will make it easier for players to win if someone know how the pattern works.

Pattern such as 30 quick spins, 30 turbo spins then buy free spins. I heard many people (Indonesian) talk about this pattern and some other patterns. I have no idea where did these people find the pattern but I have read something like an article about an ex operator of an online casino who reveal a pattern on how to win on slot games. However at the end of the article the writer says that the best pattern is to stop playing lol.

Lol last line made me laugh.
There is no pattern on slots, random strings reveals next multipliers with special algorithm. I have read someone who is slot developer on provider said it is purely based on math, you can get max win in next spin or on 3bln spins on depending on the luck.

ryzaadit

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Quote from: masulum on February 23, 2023, 07:53:22 AM

-snip-

Agree, I think people who are realized they have some pattern or other.

IMO, they should make a survey how much section they're playing and how the outcome. If they facing a situation according the pattern more often, or they have more failed rather than the success pattern.

In-case, we're getting more losing could be the pattern is not working.

klidex

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Quote from: Bitinity on February 23, 2023, 01:59:28 AM

Quote from: masulum on February 22, 2023, 06:28:00 AM

Quote from: ryzaadit on February 21, 2023, 01:52:30 PM

My self, first time to see people are knowing while there has some big win pattern Grin

I only know, pattern while you're on-fire section (Keep hitting bonus under 100/50 spin over and over again). But this time funny, to see people are knowing if lines more often connected the big win will come.

IMO, these scenario just like (If we lose more, then next bet are gonna to increase your win chance). While, we all know the chance winning of your bet are still same and lose or win from previous bet are not gonna to increase.

Yup, in slots, many people say that there is a certain pattern to get a big win or even a max-win. But to be honest, I myself do not believe in it. Because, I even get max-win no matter what pattern, all of a sudden I get freespins and max-win is reached. It's that simple when luck is upon us. my nephew often plays Higgs Slots, he tells me about the pattern, maybe for mobile-based games, this pattern is true, because the game is actually not for gambling, but that's also not 100% proven. However, for gambling, it is impossible to implement this pattern because it will make it easier for players to win if someone know how the pattern works.

Pattern such as 30 quick spins, 30 turbo spins then buy free spins. I heard many people (Indonesian) talk about this pattern and some other patterns. I have no idea where did these people find the pattern but I have read something like an article about an ex operator of an online casino who reveal a pattern on how to win on slot games. However at the end of the article the writer says that the best pattern is to stop playing lol.

As far as I know, Indonesian gamblers really like slot games, in fact, almost all groups, from teenagers to adults to the elderly, are fond of playing slot games provided by local gambling platforms.
For strategies such as doing 30 fast spins 30 turbo spins and then buying free spins, they are already familiar and many slot gamblers have certainly tried using this strategy. I myself have used it in the pramatic provider slot game and it was indeed successful, but it can only provide a little profit only.
Maybe if you can make big enough bets using that strategy you can make more profits because so far I've only tried it with relatively low bets.
I like to read articles about gambling and strategies to be able to play gambling well, but I don't really believe and follow what is in a gambling article because I have more confidence in my personal abilities.

masulum

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hmph..

Quote from: len01 on February 23, 2023, 06:42:34 AM

I've tried this pattern but only with small stakes on Olympus. a few days I tried the pattern of 30 fast spins and 30 turbo spins, the result was that I had no profit or loss, my balance decreased and increased so it continued for several hours.
but today I tried the pattern again but only the biggest 100x multiplier came out.

somehow the pattern is like a myth but sometimes I'm still curious. or maybe I'm too ambitious with videos on youtube.

If every spin you do doesn't make you run out of all your money, it can be said that the pattern is working. However, if one day you use the pattern, then you keep losing, it means that at that time you were lucky. Maybe if you've tried it a few times later, and the loss is no more than when you start a spin without a pattern, it might be worth to trying this method.

len01

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Quote from: Bitinity on February 23, 2023, 03:20:35 AM

Quote from: swogerino on February 23, 2023, 02:17:39 AM

Quote from: Bitinity on February 23, 2023, 01:59:28 AM

Pattern such as 30 quick spins, 30 turbo spins then buy free spins. I heard many people (Indonesian) talk about this pattern and some other patterns. I have no idea where did these people find the pattern but I have read something like an article about an ex operator of an online casino who reveal a pattern on how to win on slot games. However at the end of the article the writer says that the best pattern is to stop playing lol.

So aren't 30 quick spins and turbo spins the same,if not why not trying this pattern at Pragmatic Play as I have been losing consistently there and despite me loving the game mechanics they throw at their slots to keep us hooked by organizing even social tournaments I have not won anything substantial there.I don't believe an ex casino operator as most probably he has not access to the source code of the games and he does not know how they will behave but let's try this once and see if he is right,in fact I am going to try this in demo mode first.

They are different, Turbo spin is obviously faster than the Quick Spin and this is available in Pragmatic Play. Other provider such as Hacksaw also has 2 different speed of "fast spins". Why not trying it? Nothing else except because it is just a myth or maybe a gambling fallacy to have a pattern to win in slot games. Some people may have tried it with several tries and if the luck comes then they will say that the pattern does work but other people may have tried it many times without luck.

I've tried this pattern but only with small stakes on Olympus. a few days I tried the pattern of 30 fast spins and 30 turbo spins, the result was that I had no profit or loss, my balance decreased and increased so it continued for several hours.
but today I tried the pattern again but only the biggest 100x multiplier came out.

somehow the pattern is like a myth but sometimes I'm still curious. or maybe I'm too ambitious with videos on youtube.

Bitinity

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Quote from: swogerino on February 23, 2023, 02:17:39 AM

Quote from: Bitinity on February 23, 2023, 01:59:28 AM

Pattern such as 30 quick spins, 30 turbo spins then buy free spins. I heard many people (Indonesian) talk about this pattern and some other patterns. I have no idea where did these people find the pattern but I have read something like an article about an ex operator of an online casino who reveal a pattern on how to win on slot games. However at the end of the article the writer says that the best pattern is to stop playing lol.

So aren't 30 quick spins and turbo spins the same,if not why not trying this pattern at Pragmatic Play as I have been losing consistently there and despite me loving the game mechanics they throw at their slots to keep us hooked by organizing even social tournaments I have not won anything substantial there.I don't believe an ex casino operator as most probably he has not access to the source code of the games and he does not know how they will behave but let's try this once and see if he is right,in fact I am going to try this in demo mode first.

They are different, Turbo spin is obviously faster than the Quick Spin and this is available in Pragmatic Play. Other provider such as Hacksaw also has 2 different speed of "fast spins". Why not trying it? Nothing else except because it is just a myth or maybe a gambling fallacy to have a pattern to win in slot games. Some people may have tried it with several tries and if the luck comes then they will say that the pattern does work but other people may have tried it many times without luck.

swogerino

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Quote from: Bitinity on February 23, 2023, 01:59:28 AM

Quote from: masulum on February 22, 2023, 06:28:00 AM

Quote from: ryzaadit on February 21, 2023, 01:52:30 PM

My self, first time to see people are knowing while there has some big win pattern Grin

I only know, pattern while you're on-fire section (Keep hitting bonus under 100/50 spin over and over again). But this time funny, to see people are knowing if lines more often connected the big win will come.

IMO, these scenario just like (If we lose more, then next bet are gonna to increase your win chance). While, we all know the chance winning of your bet are still same and lose or win from previous bet are not gonna to increase.

Yup, in slots, many people say that there is a certain pattern to get a big win or even a max-win. But to be honest, I myself do not believe in it. Because, I even get max-win no matter what pattern, all of a sudden I get freespins and max-win is reached. It's that simple when luck is upon us. my nephew often plays Higgs Slots, he tells me about the pattern, maybe for mobile-based games, this pattern is true, because the game is actually not for gambling, but that's also not 100% proven. However, for gambling, it is impossible to implement this pattern because it will make it easier for players to win if someone know how the pattern works.

Pattern such as 30 quick spins, 30 turbo spins then buy free spins. I heard many people (Indonesian) talk about this pattern and some other patterns. I have no idea where did these people find the pattern but I have read something like an article about an ex operator of an online casino who reveal a pattern on how to win on slot games. However at the end of the article the writer says that the best pattern is to stop playing lol.

So aren't 30 quick spins and turbo spins the same,if not why not trying this pattern at Pragmatic Play as I have been losing consistently there and despite me loving the game mechanics they throw at their slots to keep us hooked by organizing even social tournaments I have not won anything substantial there.I don't believe an ex casino operator as most probably he has not access to the source code of the games and he does not know how they will behave but let's try this once and see if he is right,in fact I am going to try this in demo mode first.

Bitinity

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Quote from: masulum on February 22, 2023, 06:28:00 AM

Quote from: ryzaadit on February 21, 2023, 01:52:30 PM

My self, first time to see people are knowing while there has some big win pattern Grin

I only know, pattern while you're on-fire section (Keep hitting bonus under 100/50 spin over and over again). But this time funny, to see people are knowing if lines more often connected the big win will come.

IMO, these scenario just like (If we lose more, then next bet are gonna to increase your win chance). While, we all know the chance winning of your bet are still same and lose or win from previous bet are not gonna to increase.

Yup, in slots, many people say that there is a certain pattern to get a big win or even a max-win. But to be honest, I myself do not believe in it. Because, I even get max-win no matter what pattern, all of a sudden I get freespins and max-win is reached. It's that simple when luck is upon us. my nephew often plays Higgs Slots, he tells me about the pattern, maybe for mobile-based games, this pattern is true, because the game is actually not for gambling, but that's also not 100% proven. However, for gambling, it is impossible to implement this pattern because it will make it easier for players to win if someone know how the pattern works.

Pattern such as 30 quick spins, 30 turbo spins then buy free spins. I heard many people (Indonesian) talk about this pattern and some other patterns. I have no idea where did these people find the pattern but I have read something like an article about an ex operator of an online casino who reveal a pattern on how to win on slot games. However at the end of the article the writer says that the best pattern is to stop playing lol.

ryzaadit

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Quote from: swogerino on February 21, 2023, 06:22:39 PM

-snip-

Congratulation, now remember how much we lose ~XD I'm give up to chase with more than 7 month, however by playing some slot got a lot leason for my self like a few things especially for the game (Pragmatic & Play N Go).

Quote from: masulum on February 22, 2023, 06:28:00 AM

-snip-

Speculation, anything can be happen in gambling ~XD people could believe it based on their experience and each of us have a different experience. Maybe, In his experience he facing this situation and got big win. Who know rights ~XD.

masulum

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hmph..

Quote from: ryzaadit on February 21, 2023, 01:52:30 PM

My self, first time to see people are knowing while there has some big win pattern Grin

I only know, pattern while you're on-fire section (Keep hitting bonus under 100/50 spin over and over again). But this time funny, to see people are knowing if lines more often connected the big win will come.

IMO, these scenario just like (If we lose more, then next bet are gonna to increase your win chance). While, we all know the chance winning of your bet are still same and lose or win from previous bet are not gonna to increase.

Yup, in slots, many people say that there is a certain pattern to get a big win or even a max-win. But to be honest, I myself do not believe in it. Because, I even get max-win no matter what pattern, all of a sudden I get freespins and max-win is reached. It's that simple when luck is upon us. my nephew often plays Higgs Slots, he tells me about the pattern, maybe for mobile-based games, this pattern is true, because the game is actually not for gambling, but that's also not 100% proven. However, for gambling, it is impossible to implement this pattern because it will make it easier for players to win if someone know how the pattern works.

swogerino

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After exactly near 3 years without hitting an x1000 win today was my lucky night as I hit overall in the Diamonds of the Realm slot from Play n Go provider x1700 finally.Wow this feeling is great and I had a huge time without feeling such happiness from playing slot machines,I was an idiot trying other type of games,for me only x100 multipliers during the bonus round hook me up and this slot is different than the other ones in the sense that what I love most is that you will get often the bonus round but extremely rarely you will go to the final stage,nevertheless compared to Green Knight which can make you lose a lot of money without even give you the bonus round this is the best from the Arthurian Legend series from Play n Go.

ryzaadit

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Quote from: qwertyup23 on February 20, 2023, 05:14:16 PM

-snip-

Keep, in mind slot only for testing the luck. Since we're playing against the machine, and we all know everything is the setup machine is always go to the "CASINO" site. IMO, If you are playing with small money and want to test the luck, then "SLOT" is the answer but you're playing with big money go to card games like "BJ" while the chance statistic win are more higher since can using "card-counting".

Quote from: masulum on February 21, 2023, 07:54:20 AM

-snip-

My self, first time to see people are knowing while there has some big win pattern Grin

I only know, pattern while you're on-fire section (Keep hitting bonus under 100/50 spin over and over again). But this time funny, to see people are knowing if lines more often connected the big win will come.

IMO, these scenario just like (If we lose more, then next bet are gonna to increase your win chance). While, we all know the chance winning of your bet are still same and lose or win from previous bet are not gonna to increase.

panjul07

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Quote from: masulum on February 21, 2023, 07:54:20 AM

I have several experience earned $ 0 from the buy free spins Cheesy

There is a way to avoid earning $0 from the bonus buy feature, it is to play slots game that gives you guarantee winning from the free spins or slot games that gives you a win for hitting the bonus round.
For example:
1. Wild West Gold by pragmatic, it gives you a guarantee win 10x from your base bet or 10% from the cost of the bonus buy.
2. Buffalo King Megaways, it gives you guarantee 5x of your base bet if you get 4 scatters (bonus symbol), 20x of your base bet for 5 bonus symbol and 100x of your base bet for 6 scatters/bonus symbols.
There are still some more games especially from Pragmatic Play that gives you guarantee few percent back from what you spent for the bonus buy where it is impossible for you to get zero from the bonus buy.

masulum

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hmph..

Quote from: FanEagle on February 19, 2023, 05:18:25 PM

There are some patterns from normal spins which pays big, like for example if you hit the same symbol on all reels but sometimes they don't come easy. It makes sense for a bonus buy to pay more because this is a special round and we pay for it, only to access it immediately.

We can still get them if we are only playing the normal way but the thing is that they can come rarely and the number of free spins that we can usually get this way are only few compared to when we buy them manually.

At the end of the day, luck still plays a big part here. If you are simply unlucky by the day you gamble, you can't get a good win no matter what.

What do you mean, for example, let's say we are doing 50 normal spins, if in these 50 normal spins more lines are connected, that means it is not right to buy a bonus? and, if for example the reel we get mostly dead spins, we need to do a bonus buy, because that's the pattern? Is that right?

And yes, luck is the important role here, we can't do anything with that, sometimes the buy bonus is also giving you 80% dead spins, even the worst, I have several experience earned $ 0 from the buy free spins Cheesy

panjul07

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Quote from: mu_enrico on February 21, 2023, 03:22:05 AM

Quote from: Fivestar4everMVP on February 20, 2023, 03:47:38 PM

What is the essence if hunting and possibly winning the big multipliers if at the end of all, the amount of money spent to get the big multiplier is more than the actual amount won?
I personally think that there are many gamblers who know quite well that gambling is a game of numbers, but yet, refuse to learn math Grin

.

Not everyone gambles for money/profits, but some do it for entertainment. Max-win is something to brag about since it's so rare, it feels like you achieve something special. The money from max-win is also decent even if you made small bets. If you only think about profit, don't gamble since all have -EVs.

Maybe only less than 1% who are gambling for entertainment, most gamblers are gambling for money/profit including me but of course I should enjoy playing the game as well.
Talk about max win, I hit it several times mostly from the bonus buy feature but I hit it once from normal spins in Fruit Party few months ago as I shared in this thread.

Quote from: mu_enrico on February 21, 2023, 03:22:05 AM

Slots is addictive, but it depends on each personality. Not everyone ended up raising their bets and losing everything. I for example, only play $0.25/spin max. Most of the time I bet IDR 1250/spin (less than $0.1).

No doubt, especially once we hit a big payout, it will make us feel curious and challenged to hit bigger payout.
I do prefer to play slot with flat betting amount, it is rare for me to increase my bet amount in my gambling session.

mu_enrico

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Quote from: Fivestar4everMVP on February 20, 2023, 03:47:38 PM

What is the essence if hunting and possibly winning the big multipliers if at the end of all, the amount of money spent to get the big multiplier is more than the actual amount won?
I personally think that there are many gamblers who know quite well that gambling is a game of numbers, but yet, refuse to learn math Grin

.

Not everyone gambles for money/profits, but some do it for entertainment. Max-win is something to brag about since it's so rare, it feels like you achieve something special. The money from max-win is also decent even if you made small bets. If you only think about profit, don't gamble since all have -EVs.

Quote from: qwertyup23 on February 20, 2023, 05:14:16 PM

Slots is one of those games that I truly want to avoid. There is just no sense in playing slots due to the sheer luck that you have to experience in order to win. Sure, from time-to-time you may win small amounts of money, but I strongly believe that the system created it that way in order for you to continue playing slots.

I noticed this kind of behaviour from the grandmother of my girlfriend. She was playing slots and she initially betted $20 in the game with around $0.3 per spin. It got to a point where she almost lost all of her money but suddenly she won a "semi-jackpot" that jumped her bet from $20 to $50. Though that may be the case, she still lost all of her money since she continued betting.

Slots is addictive, but it depends on each personality. Not everyone ended up raising their bets and losing everything. I for example, only play $0.25/spin max. Most of the time I bet IDR 1250/spin (less than $0.1).

Speaking of games to avoid, I'd rather tell people to avoid table games since usually I see ~20% profitability from casino annual reports, meanwhile for slots only ~9%. This means the casino makes more profit from table games.

Topic: Slots 101: Basics, Strategies, and Discussion (with poll) - page 40. (Read 26564 times)