Topic: So much talk and 0 action, lets actually make a sovereign territory (Read 3929 times)

So this thread fizzled out with no action? 

I think now is the perfect time to go ahead with a project like this. The Seasteading Institute has no competition and is making waves.

I have some plans of my own to put a killer team together and actually create a sovereign nation.

I think bitcoin/blockchain is the perfect technology to do something like this. What does everyone else think? Is anyone willing to get involved?

I think it's not a bad idea to have a distributed internet republic that is informal for us, but formal for "them". It may have no powers at all.

The mindsets out there require such things. First and foremost passports, for travel, airlines, etc. I don't want dual citizenship, I'd want to demonstrably abandon my old world citizenship and my old passport to make a statement.

Still not desirable in the least. As it is, the internet is a completely free medium, minus a few states' attempts to monitor and control access to it.

If you're trying to make order out of the anarchy that still exists online, then you're clearly in the wrong community as it's the bitcoin-loving anarchists who will fight you the hardest.



Have you even been to Judge.me?

You don't need any kind of a national structure to enforce contracts. In fact I bet one day there will be a free-market law based in software, much like bitcoin is a free-market money.

All functions of state need to be decentralized, not the other way around.

yes since posting its been explained to me why this idea wouldn't work =(. Still you are right, if texas succeeded that would be such a huge deal. Despite all its shortcomings i would start packing my things literally 1 minute after i got the news.

I've never loved another man until I read this thread, loool! Anon136 for President!

 Seriously though, you are right on que!

I have been touting this forever and been wanting to create an investment fund, from real Americans who want real change. An Island idea sucks IMO, I would rather get a parcel from a respectable country that has no ties to British rule.

Texas has the right...... but is too Shicken Chit to succeed! And that would be perfect there! Texas is even  ranked 14th largest economy in the world.

I understand how you might not be interested, but it wasn't proposed "just for the hell of it", but rather to decide relevant group standards and allow them to submit disputes to binding arbitration.  This would be used for things that matter, such as contract enforcement, not trivialities.  This concept is no more arbitrary than Bitcoin is arbitrary.  You as a sovereign individual can pretend that your notion of value is what matters, and that's fine, but look what happens when a group of people voluntarily decide on a shared notion of value -- that is Bitcoin, and it is not a waste of time!

Sorry you lost me on that one hoss. I have no interest in joining a government or a democracy just for the hell of it. Thats my problem with wirtland. The whole idea of making a nation for libertarians conflicts with the idea that most libertarians hold that is the individual sovereign. Maybe if it could be used as a means to an end, but not for the hell of it.

Based on this discussion, I hereby propose a new country of the Internet, to be called "Bitland".
* What is it?  Open source, libertarian, democratic goverment of the Internet, similar to the way that Bitcoin (and the altcoins) are.
* Why is it needed?  To have an explicit, codified set of principles for governance of the Bitcoin community and its interactions, particularly business transactions.
* How can a government exist without land?  Yes, but how can a currency exist without an army?  It does so based on its attractiveness, by the willing participation of its members without the use of force.
* How does Bitland collect taxes?  It doesn't, it runs on donations for any necessary expenses.
* What does the government consist of?  A constitution, bill of rights, and set of laws that can be forked, modified, and improved, just like the Bitcoin software can be forked.
* How to start it?  Use a wiki to write the constitution and bill of rights.  Everyone votes.  90% acceptance means the constitution is valid.  90% vote needed to amend it.
* How to create laws?  Anyone can write a proposed law.  Summon a representative assembly and vote, with 2/3 majority needed for acceptance.
* How to become a citizen?  Either you are one of the 90% who voted for the constitution, or you swear to obey the constitution and laws and are admitted by a jury of citizens.
* How to quit from Bitland?  The same way you joined, only you repudiate your citizenship and your repudiation is acknowledged by a jury of citizens.
* How does Bitland regulate the activity of non-Bitlanders?  It doesn't, it only has jurisdiction over those who voluntarily agree to follow its laws.

Imagine that we create a new Internet government called the Free, Independent People of Bitland (FIPB).  What's the point?  Well, for starters, when you're doing international transactions, who has jurisdiction?  We need a lightweight, instant, Internet government that can play a binding role in judging Bitcoin disputes.  That way, someone doing business in Bitcoin can say, "I am a citizen of FIPB" or "I am a Bitlander" and you automatically know what common rules are expected.  If someone steals your coins, or doesn't deliver your product, or misbehaves generally contrary to the laws of Bitland, you can bring charges and summon up a jury of their peers, who can decide between them in a legally binding arbitration, thus avoiding the slowness, messiness, and jurisdictional disputes of existing governments.  If anyone refuses to accept the results of arbitration, they can be fined or expelled.

Later on, if the Bitland concept becomes popular, you can worry about obtaining real estate.

Its not crazy talk! DANK IS JESUS! Don't you understand?

buddy do you realize how crazy you sound when you talk? I KNOW that what ever you are doing isn't helping our cause if you are associating any sovereignty movement with crazy talk like that.

Time will tell.

*will laugh their asses off.

Exactly.  I dreamed of creating an island nation for a while but I realized it wouldn't change much in the big picture.  The proper way to free the slaves is to:

1. Take LSD and lose all your fear
2. Call out the government for being a bunch of greedy, corrupt, serial killing, coked up gangsters, repeatedly.
3. Tell everyone the CIA will kill you and you'll come back to life at a music festival to make earth heaven, to remove the negativity.
4. The CIA will surely hear you.  They know their reign of power is approaching an end, they'd prefer to have peace rather than retaliation.
5. Let the CIA peacefully kill you to show the world proof.
6. Ejoy doing anything you can believe while feeling infinite love.
7. World sees that you were right, the economy crashes and a music festival is assembled.
7. Play guitar at music festival

This way, we can have a peaceful rEVOLution.

Well, not to sound cold-hearted, but it's more about saving our movement time & energy that would be wasted if some of us went down that tired, old, dead-end path yet again.

Bitcoin is actually part of a plan that will WORK to bring us freedom. Seasteading sadly isn't. Anything at all that centralizes a group of people at odds with governments simply can't work. Their guns are bigger and they aren't afraid to use them.


No, they wouldn't do it that way at all.

Assuming you get some VC money interested, and that is a HUGE assumption given the obvious downside, you'd likely see governments wait for us to get just to the point of becoming profitable and then one sad day a submarine will fire a torpedo at the colony from under the waves, never detected, with nobody taking credit for the deed.

Too well funded to fall to a mere torpedo? Then they'll use biological agents, or have a spy come aboard and poison our water supply, or one of a thousand other examples that looks best to them at the time.

ok ok btcluke i get it, you are probably just trying to save my life.   

But what about big venture capital, silicon valley venture capital getting behind sea-steading.

would the old boys blow up silicon valley venture capitalist ships?

Don't forget your Heinlein....

I hesitate to say only. But it's certainly our best.

The south weren't foreigners to Lincoln. He'd lived in New Orleans himself!

I could likely dig up a half dozen other examples too why the victims of national conquest don't have to be foreign, but surely you get the point... Nations are simply ruthless, and always will be so. Whenever you create a position of power, such as head of a state, all it takes is a few terms for the most Palpatine-like among the country to rise to that position. There is no way around this except for Anarchy.

Judging by your Avatar, I think we're together on this much... So why is it so hard for you to see that the whole world is populated by countries run by these evil bastards, and don't want your free society to threaten their rule in any small way?
  

When the internet is more free we'll be able to have that to an extent... But even once we do, we'd need a heck of a lot more than friends and family back home to care about us to save us from nations' wrath... These people may individually care about you, but they obviously don't give two farts in the wind about freedom from their slavery or else they'd be joining you.

They'll just think you're fruity, and won't be too surprised when the mainstream media tells them that some silly calamity befell your island and you sadly died because you're a shortsighted fruitcake.


I tried that line of thought for a loooong time with the seasteaders.

Trust me, it isn't.


Moonsteading appealed to me for a bit too, but then I remembered some Arthur C Clarke...  

Moving an existing asteroid's path ever so gently would give them a way to both destroy all life on our new habitat, AND claim it was an act of nature.

Besides, if we can get there, and their piggybank is bigger than ours, what's to stop them from getting there soon afterwards, claiming the whole moon/planet, and declaring us outlaws over there?

You can't run into space, either.

You can only wake people up... That's our only hope for freedom.

http://applicants.mars-one.com/

Or start a similar plan to go to the Moon. Or Ceres. No AnCap island nation on Earth, I'm sorry. The nation-states have this one all sewn up. The only way to get to there from here is for them to go away, or for us to leave.

yea, all gathering togater like that in the same place would make us vulnerable. if we are spread out all over the world communicating through darknets and building a global economy out of anarchic crypto-currencies than we stay decentralized and avoid single points of failure. Its sad though, i want to build my own walled city so badly 

It's 21 square km. A single "accidental detonation" or "off-target test launch" and the entire island is a radioactive atoll. If that.