Topic: Solution to poverty - Socialism or Capitalism? - page 13. (Read 30791 times)

Left-wing socialists and all other anti-libertarians can say opposite - NATIONALIZE everything! And they will be right about the way to solve problem of the commons.

Get back there and pick apart the argument, or stfu, your choice.

Privatize the sea??  LOL.  OK who gets to own the ocean?  First come first serve?  Then I claim I own the Atlantic Ocean.  Haha.  No actually Exxon owns the Atlantic because they have some oil drilling platforms there no fishing says Exxon or you pay us royalty on each fish.   No, I'm Venezuela and screw Exxon.  I'll just send some warships and blow up their drilling platforms.   Try some critical thinking before you post this nonsense

Too bad for you there is already a govt agency called NOAA that deals with the very issue of overfishing.  You see commercial fisheries don't care about fish stock.  They have no scientific interest to study this kind of stuff.  There job is to catch fish and pay the bills.  That why NOAA exists.  Then NOAA works w commercial fisheries through regulations to replenish fish stock.  There's already been a reduction in overfishing thanks to NOAA.  That's a fact.  Whatever that other guy said about Canada, I don't believe it until he cites a study.  You guys don't even know about the industries you are talking about and you think "privatize everything!" is always the solution.  That is naive

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/stories/2013/05/05_02_13status_of_stocks_2012.html

Also you don't understand game theory.  Game theory says the individual is mostly like make the choice that benefit himself the most  NOT benefit the whole group

You mean this:


No, but you can't measure it. First issue would be "to what society"? Your own country? The World? Then for what end? "Oh, I'm a famous musician" - great but I don't like classical music, so you can shove it, which also means what you do to me worth 0.

You see, the issue about your "solve it all solution" rounds about to be the same about Marx's theories. You just keep ignoring relevant events and take shortcuts to make it sound as if the goal was achieved. But in truth they are but half baked ideas.
Privatize everything, is it? OK... then you would need to stop every 100 yards to pay the toll for pass the next guy's road. And how about the owner of the water asking you 1000 bucks for 1 cubic feet? "I wouldn't pay"; right, but you wouldn't have water and you need it for survive.

Do you even think where your rights come from? Ever wonder that if you have no power to enforce them, a power you now have from the government, you simply have no rights at all? In your dream world of no governments, a deal about bitcoin would go as:

Thug: I want 1 BTC
You: Alright sir, that would be 500 bucks.
Thug: I give you 10 bucks.
You: 490 is the lowest I can go.
Thug: 5 bucks and I let you keep your teeth inside your mouth.
You: You got a deal...

No taxes -> no Government -> no Public infrastructure -> no Rights.

Answer the question.

Don't forget the dirtiest tax of all........ Inflation.

+100

Privatise EVERYTHING!

For the fishing stock : Does it need gov regulation ? no.
But the problem can only be solved if sea is privatized.

In a free market, a landlord has the right to impose quota on his territory to prevent over farming that would make his land worth less in the future.
If the price of tuna rises due to scarcity, the landlord have even more incentive to prevent over farming, thus equilibrium is restored.

It is like saying : do we need to protect cows ?
My response is no : On one hand you can just breed them, and on the other hand, it is not in the interest of the landlord to extinguish the treasure of his land.

You want to stop over fishing ? Privatize the sea, and see miracle happens.

There is no problem that can't be solved without relying on the free will of all parties.
It would not prevent "sea owners" to unionize with their free will to coordinate effort and impose uniform fishing quota on bigger scale.
Such union is essential to solve "prisonner's dilemna" (game theory) type of problems.

Denmark. I'm given to understand Sweden is about as bad if not worse on the whole, just a matter of which metrics are being exploited.

About what country are you telling about?

Go live in a socialist utopia for a few years. Citizenship and all. Go all in if you believe your own words.

Local tax is around 40-60% depending how much you make and whatever other factors. Everything has huge taxes on it (so-called hidden taxes). Cars for example has a 180% tax on top of whatever its base price is. Even if you buy a car in another country you still have to pay it, in effect tripling its price artificially.
Electricity is multiple times as expensive as in neighboring countries, real estate is 4 times as expensive compared to the US, cars 4-10 times as much. But hey, free welfare! Which is steadily being eroded. But, free! [ed: meant to say healthcare, but this works even better]

The reality is that if all our taxes on electricity, cars, houses and literally everything else was converted to income tax, it would be something like 80-90%. So yes, the guy is right.

You know, that makes a lot of sense. People who have been conditioned right from birth to obey OR ELSE would naturally gravitate towards socialism.

There is no definition of poverty - nor can there be. It is a politican word - willfully undefined.

How would the socialism solve the poverty.Capitalism at least provides certain opportunity to survive.

You should read some Jaques Fresco books. We are fucked in the future if we cannot manage the fact technology is going to keep replacing jobs NON-STOP. This is a FACT. How is the system going to cope with this, in any case?

"One day I will create something that will help the society, because my life worth more than of a bum" - said billions of unknown folks that are now 6 feet under while alive...

What!? Even if your total tax rate (which you pay personally and your employer pays) is, say, 50%, then $20K salary now will be worth just $30K without taxes. However you will have to pay for education, healthcare, roads, rescue services etc from your own pocket!

If you were libertarian then you would consider that without taxation (theft) your money would have many times the buying power and you would not consider yourself poor, even if your earning $20,000 it would buy you $200,000 worth of loot.

Then you would consider that because there is no subsidisation of university, people aren't being forced to get a degree to get a job! You would consider that you would be able to find many more opportunities to enter into a fulfilling career.

Then you would realise that your a libertarian and that even this was unnecessary because in a libertarian society you would never spend 12 years of your life in a school system which left you so woefully under skilled for gainful employment and you would recall that you, at the age of 15-16, you would be great at programming or accounting or building or graphic design or whatever you wanted.

But I understand you benefit from the system as is. Best of luck bro x

Im a socialist coz im poor, if i was rich i would be a libertarian and viceversa 

Must use force to make people support socialism!