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Topic: Solution to poverty - Socialism or Capitalism? - page 32. (Read 30791 times)

sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
What still baffles me is that although many Governments has been giving away welfare aids to people below a certain income level, this does not help solve poverty at all.
Poor people can now fulfill their basic needs, but they have now become dependent on the Govt to give them the necessary resources for life. I think this is a gross misallocation of resources which could have been put to better use to create jobs instead of making poor people dependent.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that this solution is only beneficial in the short run so why is it still being done?
In Denmark less than half the population works. Half their income is taken from them before it even hits their bank accounts and redistributed to those who do not work. It's even worse than that since government employed get their saleries from taxes, and that sector is ever-growing.

Think how it would be if there were no welfare checks. Taxes could be low, maybe 15% instead of 50, wages would go down while actual buying power would go up due to less taxation. Everyone who works would be wealthier, and more people would work out of necessity so the country would be more productive. The only downside is that people who can't or won't work would be worse off, but there is no perfect system. It's really a matter of, do we want a functioning country where the majority benefits or do we want 0% of the population to live in the street?

In Spain, the welfare system is so fucked up that you have to be half crippled to get something, and even those with legitimate minusvalies are having problems getting their deserved monthly paychecks, what this means is even if these that may be just lazy (and we could discuss if lazy is just a word to describe a legitimate biological problem that really makes working for you hell) aren't getting a single penny from welfare, you don't see any improvement or people being successful as entrepeneurs. In my observations the only thing i've gathered is poverty attracts more poverty and success stories aren't the norm. Similarly, money attracts money, this is why people who inherit can keep on building more and more of it wasting almost no energy.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
Well, I think neither of capitalism or socialism can be ultimate solution to poverty.. Firstly, we need to expel the fact that poverty can be eradicated.. I guess poverty can never be removed..
People say that Capitalism emphasis on superiority, and thus creates inequality in the society.. True but then it is also inspires one to improve..
Which are today's greatest nations? US, China, France, England, Rome, Greece, and the list goes on and on.. And then these are not only the greatest nations, but they also have the wealthiest population also.. Is there anything common to them? Simply, Capitalism !!

What the hell did i just read?! Greece is among greatest nations right now? Capitalism is bringing fascism in Greece right now in levels noone saw for like 70 years. People are working for 480 euro while having serious university degrees and know 2 foreign languages while their benefits and health system is getting chooped by the day. (Did you know that many work without pay just to get experience) But of course in Europe the media celebrate  the progress with 27% unemployment and doubling suicide rates.

Meanwhile the free market in greece gives state assets to billionaires for less than peanuts...

Noone is inspired to improve. 10% of Greeks have been inspired to go stab minorities, pick abortions over births, suicide, start doing drugs and leave the country. If this is what you mean improvement then okay. Ah and its not going to be something temporal. There are no plans for fixing this for the next 10 year at least...



Legit my friend, as someone living in spain I can relate, and you can relate to me because we are living the system rot to hell IRL, daily. Most people that say "just go out and put yourself out there, get a job" etc, just don't get it. You have to be on a dead end to trully get how fucked up this thing is. Im getting half of my monthly income from advertisement campaings with Bitcoin, this is how fucked up things are. When Stunna starts cutting payments im literally dead lol.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
Neighter...

The sloution to end povrety is a Ressource based economy.  We are one on a spaceship, profit and endless growth economy is not sustainable..  lookup RBE and learn about it.  Imo, its THE solution to a healtier and better life for everyone aboard spaceship earth.
But how do you get from here to there? That's is the question that tuned me into Bitcoin. This may be an important part of the transition.

I agree with this. I also see Bitcoin as a part of a transition to a RBE, when we no longer need to trade, a fully open source society. Of course this seems so distant to me right now, I don't see such thing happening in my lifetime and im not 30 yet, so there. I do see something like Bitcoin starting a big revolution in economy and disrupting this rotting enviorment. God knows what and how will happen next and to what extent.
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 662
Governments can do nothing except exacerbate the problem, usually by equalizing the pain shared.

In a free economy, all economic actors can improve there lives thru serving other humans (work) and either saving or spending their just reward(money). Poor people will be around though, either because of unfortunate circumstances which are a part of life and can be mitigated in several LOCAL ways, or they choose to remain poor.

Let's say it's true and one can improve there lives thru serving other humans (work). But: Why would these that aren't as genetically gifted to learn the skills that are best paid (because sometimes hard work is just not enough) deserve a worse life quality (less money) than these that are genetically gifted to do everything right without being a constant struggle forcing your brain to do so?
Nothing will prevent you to help them, but forcing other to do so is coercion.

If you do you'll start asking a question : is he genetically stupid, or does he plays stupid ?
Such question are never asked when you spend somebody's else money. But you will if it is your own.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
Governments can do nothing except exacerbate the problem, usually by equalizing the pain shared.

In a free economy, all economic actors can improve there lives thru serving other humans (work) and either saving or spending their just reward(money). Poor people will be around though, either because of unfortunate circumstances which are a part of life and can be mitigated in several LOCAL ways, or they choose to remain poor.

Let's say it's true and one can improve there lives thru serving other humans (work). But: Why would these that aren't as genetically gifted to learn the skills that are best paid (because sometimes hard work is just not enough) deserve a worse life quality (less money) than these that are genetically gifted to do everything right without being a constant struggle forcing your brain to do so?
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
★☆★Bitin.io★☆★
Hey everyone. In today's developed world where we have glasses that can access the internet and robots that can think on their own, it is a shame that there are still people in parts of the world living under 1$ a day.
What can governments do to end poverty in their countries? Is a solution possible under capitalism? Or did Karl Marx had the right idea with his recommendation of a socialist government?

Less State means less incompetence, less corruption, less problems. Governments do more bad than good after all, and should only have restricted powers, limited to the minimum necessary.

Socialism/Statism will only make poverty worse. Poverty will be solved the moment people start giving importance and value to work. Many people prefer not to work, but only to receive free benefits form their governments, acting like spoiled adolescents. It is the statism that keeps people from developing, they want us to be eternal dependents and treat us as if we were stupid.

Quote
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Thomas Paine

Pretty good summation. Government should defend us, enforce contracts, and keep the peace. All with as small a foot print as possible.
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
Hey everyone. In today's developed world where we have glasses that can access the internet and robots that can think on their own, it is a shame that there are still people in parts of the world living under 1$ a day.
What can governments do to end poverty in their countries? Is a solution possible under capitalism? Or did Karl Marx had the right idea with his recommendation of a socialist government?

Less State means less incompetence, less corruption, less problems. Governments do more bad than good after all, and should only have restricted powers, limited to the minimum necessary.

Socialism/Statism will only make poverty worse. Poverty will be solved the moment people start giving importance and value to work. Many people prefer not to work, but only to receive free benefits form their governments, acting like spoiled adolescents. It is the statism that keeps people from developing, they want us to be eternal dependents and treat us as if we were stupid.

Quote
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Thomas Paine
full member
Activity: 213
Merit: 100
There is no solution to poverty.
we are not all equal, some people are smarter and more capable than others and will always be richer.
socialism doesn't doesn't take people out of poverty, it drags the successful down to poverty.

There is solution to poverty, and if you think that smarter people are all rich, ure wrong.
Kapitalism benefits only those who were born rich, and makes it easy for them to acumulate more wealth, while alot of smart persons never get the chance even in decent education.

I am somewhat middle class, and i know alot of rich people who are insanely dumb, and alot of smart, but poor people, who never got their chance in life.

capitalism benefits those who produce goods and services that people want to buy, you don't have to be smart, you just need to produce something that people need.
if you are born rich but also a fool you will lose all your money either by eventually spending it all or by badly investing it.

Good points.

People who think his wallet size has anything to do with the size of his brain is clearly delusional.

People who are born into rich family usually squander it all on useless crap (nice car, shallow girl, etc) is my observation.
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1002
The opposite of this is true as well. If you are born poor, but are smart then you will earn a lot of money with capialism.
There are more chances to win in a lottery than become rich for the poor now!
full member
Activity: 137
Merit: 100
There is no solution to poverty.
we are not all equal, some people are smarter and more capable than others and will always be richer.
socialism doesn't doesn't take people out of poverty, it drags the successful down to poverty.

There is solution to poverty, and if you think that smarter people are all rich, ure wrong.
Kapitalism benefits only those who were born rich, and makes it easy for them to acumulate more wealth, while alot of smart persons never get the chance even in decent education.

I am somewhat middle class, and i know alot of rich people who are insanely dumb, and alot of smart, but poor people, who never got their chance in life.

capitalism benefits those who produce goods and services that people want to buy, you don't have to be smart, you just need to produce something that people need.
if you are born rich but also a fool you will lose all your money either by eventually spending it all or by badly investing it.
The opposite of this is true as well. If you are born poor, but are smart then you will earn a lot of money with capialism.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
There is no solution to poverty.
we are not all equal, some people are smarter and more capable than others and will always be richer.
socialism doesn't doesn't take people out of poverty, it drags the successful down to poverty.

There is solution to poverty, and if you think that smarter people are all rich, ure wrong.
Kapitalism benefits only those who were born rich, and makes it easy for them to acumulate more wealth, while alot of smart persons never get the chance even in decent education.

I am somewhat middle class, and i know alot of rich people who are insanely dumb, and alot of smart, but poor people, who never got their chance in life.

capitalism benefits those who produce goods and services that people want to buy, you don't have to be smart, you just need to produce something that people need.
if you are born rich but also a fool you will lose all your money either by eventually spending it all or by badly investing it.
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 662
There is no solution to poverty.
we are not all equal, some people are smarter and more capable than others and will always be richer.
socialism doesn't doesn't take people out of poverty, it drags the successful down to poverty.

There is solution to poverty, and if you think that smarter people are all rich, ure wrong.
Kapitalism benefits only those who were born rich, and makes it easy for them to acumulate more wealth, while alot of smart persons never get the chance even in decent education.

I am somewhat middle class, and i know alot of rich people who are insanely dumb, and alot of smart, but poor people, who never got their chance in life.

Nobody can be smaller than his money.
Dumb people looses money, except if protected by government.
You can be born rich, you can be sure that without a productive and smart person, this money will be redistributed without the government having to do anything.

A smart person attracts money by his productivity.
If you are smart and not rich, then it is because you hit an artificial wall set in place by the government or company which regulate what you salary should be.
If you can't get paid more if you want to, then you are not as smart as you say compared to your concurrence.

The really smart and productive person, does not care if it is socialism or capitalism, he will accumulate money in both.
But the problem of socialism is that it keeps people dumb by distorting their real value in the market place through salary control and regulation.
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1000
Satoshi is rolling in his grave. #bitcoin
There is no solution to poverty.
we are not all equal, some people are smarter and more capable than others and will always be richer.
socialism doesn't doesn't take people out of poverty, it drags the successful down to poverty.

There is solution to poverty, and if you think that smarter people are all rich, ure wrong.
Kapitalism benefits only those who were born rich, and makes it easy for them to acumulate more wealth, while alot of smart persons never get the chance even in decent education.

I am somewhat middle class, and i know alot of rich people who are insanely dumb, and alot of smart, but poor people, who never got their chance in life.
full member
Activity: 169
Merit: 100
There is no solution to poverty.
we are not all equal, some people are smarter and more capable than others and will always be richer.
socialism doesn't doesn't take people out of poverty, it drags the successful down to poverty.

Social and economic background and culture have more to do with how much wealth a person can accumulate.

hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 662
Solution to poverty - Socialism or Capitalism?
I think that both - Socialism or Capitalism have good and weak points.
Capitalism is more oriented to the owners and capital, what is good but less oriented to the workers, what is bad.
Socialism is more oriented toward workers but less toward owners and capital.
WE need balance approach and more market control by the government, in my opinion.

Capitalism is obviously the answer as the lazy will be punished and the hard working will be rewarded.  

Then apply it to a bank and an argument called to big to fail
Banks will be rewarded in bad times and good times while the hard working will not be rewarded by it but lose their assets.
Socialism is not communism though got to lower the intensity there.

This is not capitalism, it is interventionism... from state.
In a free market, they would be dead before they could gain so much power.
Confiscation is not the solution, the solution is to let them die. The root of evil is people thinking banking money is equal to dollar whereas the convertibility deposit/dollar is artificial enforced.

Baillout is an effect of socialism, not capitalism... Let's baillout "for the good of society".
legendary
Activity: 2562
Merit: 1071
Solution to poverty - Socialism or Capitalism?
I think that both - Socialism or Capitalism have good and weak points.
Capitalism is more oriented to the owners and capital, what is good but less oriented to the workers, what is bad.
Socialism is more oriented toward workers but less toward owners and capital.
WE need balance approach and more market control by the government, in my opinion.
This would be impossible.

Socialism and Capitalism are two opposite types of economies. Socialism takes money from the successful and gives to the lazy while capitalism rewards hard work.

Capitalism is obviously the answer as the lazy will be punished and the hard working will be rewarded.  

You do realize that not everyone that gets punished in capitalism is necessarily lazy, and not everyone that is successful is necessarily a hard worker (or even productive), right? This also completely ignores different starting conditions for everyone: being born to a wealthy family and having more access to education and resources will give you an edge others won't have, further distorting the playing field.


There is no solution to poverty.
we are not all equal, some people are smarter and more capable than others and will always be richer.
socialism doesn't doesn't take people out of poverty, it drags the successful down to poverty.

I'm not sure what definition of poverty you're operating under, but it doesn't seem like it would be most people's definition. Tongue I do agree that it would tend to bring everyone to the same level however.
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1090
Learning the troll avoidance button :)
Solution to poverty - Socialism or Capitalism?
I think that both - Socialism or Capitalism have good and weak points.
Capitalism is more oriented to the owners and capital, what is good but less oriented to the workers, what is bad.
Socialism is more oriented toward workers but less toward owners and capital.
WE need balance approach and more market control by the government, in my opinion.

Capitalism is obviously the answer as the lazy will be punished and the hard working will be rewarded.  

Then apply it to a bank and an argument called to big to fail
Banks will be rewarded in bad times and good times while the hard working will not be rewarded by it but lose their assets.
Socialism is not communism though got to lower the intensity there.
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1002
There is no solution to poverty.
we are not all equal, some people are smarter and more capable than others and will always be richer.
socialism doesn't doesn't take people out of poverty, it drags the successful down to poverty.
It's plausible that people may be no fully equal, but history shows the Colt will equalize them all when too much concentration of wealth happens!
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
There is no solution to poverty.
we are not all equal, some people are smarter and more capable than others and will always be richer.
socialism doesn't doesn't take people out of poverty, it drags the successful down to poverty.
full member
Activity: 197
Merit: 100
Solution to poverty - Socialism or Capitalism?
I think that both - Socialism or Capitalism have good and weak points.
Capitalism is more oriented to the owners and capital, what is good but less oriented to the workers, what is bad.
Socialism is more oriented toward workers but less toward owners and capital.
WE need balance approach and more market control by the government, in my opinion.
This would be impossible.

Socialism and Capitalism are two opposite types of economies. Socialism takes money from the successful and gives to the lazy while capitalism rewards hard work.

Capitalism is obviously the answer as the lazy will be punished and the hard working will be rewarded. 
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