Topic: State Atheism - page 8. (Read 6828 times)

....because I demonstrated that atheism and an atheist state are two different things and you have is a spurious relationship in the term "atheist state" itself.....it implies the state was established because of atheism, when it is the other way around. Atheism was established because of a ruthless dictator who didn't want competition.  The nation isn't a horrible place because of atheism, it is a horrible place because of the ruthless dictator.   Spurious relationship.  

So, as rigon has been unwilling to defend two of his sources (knowing as he does those sources failed to support his position), and given they were a tangent from the OP itself - state directed atheism, promotion of atheism by the state - then the conclusion that state promotion of atheism has never been a good thing stands.


To date, no one has been able to give an example of such a state that is worth embracing.

Who ran away from it?  It supports my position.  You and no one else can explain why socialist liberal nations with the least religion are so happy.

You are still free to make a point if you have one.  ready go.

So, your running away from that link you posted means you no longer have confidence that it supports your position.  Got it.

And your running away from what you C&P in your post - Ditto.  No wonder you did not fare well in that liberal thread in the other forum.  You really need to read your sources a bit more carefully.

The nations that are perennially happy with themselves and their government are filled with people with the least religion.  I've post a variety of reasons for this from every single link I provided.  Prosperity and freedoms are usually at the center.

I ask again....if you think you have a point......please make it.

Same is true for the C&P in your post.  That undermined your case also.  No wonder you wish to move on.

Now, again, as far as happiness - my argument is not that atheists cannot be happy.  You know the old saying - ignorance is bliss.....

But seriously, from the above link you first provided - go back and see why the article says that atheists (or any Norwegian) are happy, and paste it here.

religion covers many things about world view and is arguably the most important topic ever, as it decides much of how you perceive the world, and how you live your life. However, many people do not dare to openly speak about it, and many do not even bother to think about it at all. Like, really think about it for more than 10 minutes.

Many people feel in their heart that the universe is far too complex to have been randomly poofed into existence, yet to accept that there must be a god also means that one has to take responsibility for their own actions, which might be difficult if you're used to living a life without responsibilities. What's more, many people can not believe there's a god, because of all the hatred, violence, injustice, etc. in the world, so if there was a god, why all this trouble? why doesn't he do something about it? However, they do not study the subject, and just assume there is no god, while if they would take 10 minutes to study they would know the answer. If i made you wonder, why not read up on the subject yourself? Try starting here for example.

If you think have a point, make it.  You do realize that Norway was not included in the survey above and both Sweden and Denmark finished higher than the US???  I repeat, if you think you have a point, chime in at any time.

Clearly, you post things without reading thoughtfully, at least some times.

In the link below that you posted supporting your premise:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2013/10/29/the-worlds-happiest-and-saddest-countries-2013/


What what did the article you posted note were factors in Norway achieving that rating?  Or, do you hesitate to do so, because the link you provided actually undermines your case??

I posted the links and the factors many times .  There is one study that says Paraguay is happy and 15 that say Norway and other Scandinavian countries are happiest.....Scandinavian countries ALWAYS rank very high on any scale of happiness, including the one that put Paraguay at the top.  I repeat, I posted studies and factors considered many times already.

In the link below that you posted supporting your premise:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2013/10/29/the-worlds-happiest-and-saddest-countries-2013/


What what did the article you posted note were factors in Norway achieving that rating?

Or, perhaps there is something the article mentions that you are rather hesitant to C&P? Rather telling for someone who is rather fond of C&P here.

having a church (led by man) governing a country, or having a large influence at least, is not the same as a true theocracy.

A true theocracy has god as leader, without man in between, which has never happened in the history of well, forever. (If we exclude adam and eve).

However, god has promised us that theocracy will come, after armageddon, and i would surely prefer theocracy over anything else.

Man are not made to rule over other man.


Theocracy, a nation governed by god.

Muslim countries are not run by god, but by muslims, which are people.

Some of them truly believe in a god, Allah, but Allah does not directly, or even indirectly, govern any of these countries. Therefore, it is not truly a theocracy.


that's the problem, since your 'versions' of theocracy assume a human leader who invents a religion, and anything that conflicts with their religion, be it a different religion, or science, or whatever, anything that conflicts with the ideas of a madman in charge is forbidden.

However, god is not a madman and his worths are no myths, god is not afraid of science, in fact god encourages science, contrary to popular belief (people, the catholic church =/= god, the CATHOLIC church was opposed to science, god is NOT opposed to science), also, the bible has NOT been disputed by ANY scientific revelations so far and is unlikely to EVER be contradicted by science. In fact, so far science has only supported the bible, which is odd because the bible is an ancient book. This, in my opinion only proves the validity of it.

The most dangerous forms of government is a government where the leaders claim to follow god, but do not in fact follow god, which is what we saw during the medieval time period in europe, and nowadays in many muslim countries.

However, a true theocracy where god directly governs the world, would be heaven on earth, literally. Luckily, this will happen, and it may even happen during our lifetime.


by the way, i'm religious, and i do not hate anyone, i do pity many, and feel sorry that they are so close-minded and oftentime sad and/or without hope, but i don't hate them, i just hope one day they will stop and think.

It has been prophesied that religion would be attacked, somewhere in revelations.

Even though freedom of religion is a basic human right.

From Legatum: "We see, for example, that despite the tumultuous events of the last [five] years, global prosperity is actually still on the rise." Takes a long time to kill off faith in God.

Only the living. The dead would have a different opinion if they could be polled.

And again, on the subject of happiness - eye of the beholder?

Frankly, I would not have picked Paraguay - but I have not kept up on its current events for quite some time either, etc.

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/worlds-happiest-country-would-you-believe-paraguay-n110981

Paraguay is the happiest country in the world, with 87 percent of residents scoring high on an index of positive emotions, according to the latest Gallup poll on well-being.

Not surprisingly, Syria, suffering through a civil war, is the unhappiest and people there are so badly off they’ve hit a new low, the survey finds.

Legatum scores the world’s countries on entrepreneurship, personal freedom, health, economy, social capital, education, safety & security, and governance.

http://media.prosperity.com/2013/pdf/publications/PI2013Brochure_WEB.pdf

Norway ranks high in economy(#1), personal freedom (#2), and safety(#6) and social capital (#1).  They are #1 in social capital.  That is to say, community, family cohesiveness.   I wonder how they rate so high as family cohevisiveness, community and safety seeing that they are the most likely people to have no religion at all?  How could a nation full of people who just dont see religion as important be happy, into community and cohesiveness, safe, and enjoy personal freedom???   All without religion?   How could that be?

+1

They're not happy. They just think that they are.