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Topic: State Atheism - page 11. (Read 6801 times)

legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
August 12, 2014, 03:10:50 PM
#93
To clarify the 'hope' - how would you 'sell' the idea?  Humans want both truth and hope - but usually hunger for hope more.

And since there is agreement that not all dictators are evil, do we have an example of a dictator promoting atheism that was not evil?
Josef Goebells was Adolph Hilter's closest associate and propaganda minister who said (paraphrased)....

"Keep repeating the lie... eventually the people will believe it's the truth..".

And the only way you can determine what is lie and what is not is to examine the contents and compare them with what is going on around you. As soon as you see somebody censuring your examination, you can bet there are lies involved.

You can't tell what the truth is without making careful examination.

Smiley
hero member
Activity: 555
Merit: 507
August 12, 2014, 02:47:55 PM
#92
Zolace,if atheism is bad....how do you explain the happiness of the people and the low crime of the nation with the highest percentage of atheists?

Ready go....start not answering the question now.


Well,  not much on the way of hope, was there.So, basically, neither of you see any evidence for anything beyond that physical realm, correct?


yup
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
August 12, 2014, 02:42:14 PM
#91
Zolace,if atheism is bad....how do you explain the happiness of the people and the low crime of the nation with the highest percentage of atheists?

Ready go....start not answering the question now.


Well,  not much on the way of hope, was there.So, basically, neither of you see any evidence for anything beyond that physical realm, correct?
sr. member
Activity: 994
Merit: 441
August 12, 2014, 02:36:59 PM
#90
Zolace,if atheism is bad....how do you explain the happiness of the people and the low crime of the nation with the highest percentage of atheists?

Ready go....start not answering the question now.
sr. member
Activity: 994
Merit: 441
August 12, 2014, 02:33:49 PM
#89
To clarify the 'hope' - how would you 'sell' the idea?  Humans want both truth and hope - but usually hunger for hope more.

And since there is agreement that not all dictators are evil, do we have an example of a dictator promoting atheism that was not evil?
you are probably right.  Noth Korea was a wonderful place before the dictator promoted state atheism.  That was when they plummetted into the despair of human rights abuses. If Kim Jong only he let the people have their religion, then he wouldnt have abused them so much.  Makes perfect sense

The fact other majority atheist  nations have a population with low crime and happy people must be the spurious relationship.  The fact almost none of the 9% of american atheists are in prison can only mean Satan is helping them avoid capture by the godly police....because clearly they are all without morals and abusers of human rights.
Interesting - last question was not addressed.  Last two really.

Now, what you did post on, you are taking issue with the OP.  Not sure still you even understand their point.  But, lets ask this - of the examples the link gives, which ones were dictatorships, and which ones were not?

All of them were essentially dictatorships during whatever brief period of promotion of state atheism.

I'm not sure what questions you refer to .  Atheism offers plenty of hope ......Hope to throw off the yoke of superstition ....hope to no longer be stupid.     In any event, it doesn't have to offer hope....it just is.   The reality is that your bible is a book of fairy tales and folk lure.  The reality is that there is nothing about atheism that makes people bad.  I have proven that.
hero member
Activity: 555
Merit: 507
August 12, 2014, 02:31:27 PM
#88
To clarify the 'hope' - how would you 'sell' the idea?  Humans want both truth and hope - but usually hunger for hope more.

And since there is agreement that not all dictators are evil, do we have an example of a dictator promoting atheism that was not evil?
you are probably right.  Noth Korea was a wonderful place before the dictator promoted state atheism.  That was when they plummetted into the despair of human rights abuses. If Kim Jong only he let the people have their religion, then he wouldnt have abused them so much.  Makes perfect sense

The fact other majority atheist  nations have a population with low crime and happy people must be the spurious relationship.  The fact almost none of the 9% of american atheists are in prison can only mean Satan is helping them avoid capture by the godly police....because clearly they are all without morals and abusers of human rights.

North Korea dosen't promote Atheism. Kim Ill sung is their God.
If you dont bow down to their dead God you get killed
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
August 12, 2014, 02:28:35 PM
#87
To clarify the 'hope' - how would you 'sell' the idea?  Humans want both truth and hope - but usually hunger for hope more.

And since there is agreement that not all dictators are evil, do we have an example of a dictator promoting atheism that was not evil?
you are probably right.  Noth Korea was a wonderful place before the dictator promoted state atheism.  That was when they plummetted into the despair of human rights abuses. If Kim Jong only he let the people have their religion, then he wouldnt have abused them so much.  Makes perfect sense

The fact other majority atheist  nations have a population with low crime and happy people must be the spurious relationship.  The fact almost none of the 9% of american atheists are in prison can only mean Satan is helping them avoid capture by the godly police....because clearly they are all without morals and abusers of human rights.
Interesting - last question was not addressed.  Last two really.

Now, what you did post on, you are taking issue with the OP.  Not sure still you even understand their point.  But, lets ask this - of the examples the link gives, which ones were dictatorships, and which ones were not?
sr. member
Activity: 994
Merit: 441
August 12, 2014, 02:21:21 PM
#86
To clarify the 'hope' - how would you 'sell' the idea?  Humans want both truth and hope - but usually hunger for hope more.

And since there is agreement that not all dictators are evil, do we have an example of a dictator promoting atheism that was not evil?
you are probably right.  Noth Korea was a wonderful place before the dictator promoted state atheism.  That was when they plummetted into the despair of human rights abuses. If Kim Jong only he let the people have their religion, then he wouldnt have abused them so much.  Makes perfect sense

The fact other majority atheist  nations have a population with low crime and happy people must be the spurious relationship.  The fact almost none of the 9% of american atheists are in prison can only mean Satan is helping them avoid capture by the godly police....because clearly they are all without morals and abusers of human rights.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
August 12, 2014, 02:15:29 PM
#85
To clarify the 'hope' - how would you 'sell' the idea?  Humans want both truth and hope - but usually hunger for hope more.

And since there is agreement that not all dictators are evil, do we have an example of a dictator promoting atheism that was not evil?
Josef Goebells was Adolph Hilter's closest associate and propaganda minister who said (paraphrased)....

"Keep repeating the lie... eventually the people will believe it's the truth..".
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
August 12, 2014, 02:03:41 PM
#84
To clarify the 'hope' - how would you 'sell' the idea?  Humans want both truth and hope - but usually hunger for hope more.

And since there is agreement that not all dictators are evil, do we have an example of a dictator promoting atheism that was not evil?
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
August 12, 2014, 11:57:47 AM
#83
My position has always been straight-forward and beyond doubt.You are a believer in superstitious nonsense.  Christianity is equal to belief in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy.
All I need to is to present people like You,as witness...

You can't tell the difference except to claim it's a matter of opinion.

There is ONE great area that throws both atheistic belief, and God directed belief, into turmoil. It is the ABSOLUTE fact that has been proven over and over by science, that neither scientists or non-scientists know anything beyond the basics around us. The proof lies in the fact that science has not been able to cause anyone to live more than 100 years or so. God-religion hasn't been able to do this, either.

And if you say, look at how our lifespans have lengthened from that of, say, only 100 years ago, you are misleading yourself. If you look, you will find various peoples around the world, peoples from any past age that we have record of, right up to the present, some who live to ages longer than we, and some who live shorter lives than we.

Science has done little to improve length of life. Why? Because the universe is so extremely complicated that scientific research has a long way to go to even really grasp how life works in detail. And if they finally understand, we don't even know for sure if they WILL be able to extend life. We simply aren't far enough along in knowledge to know for sure. This having been said, what is there to argue about? None of us knows on our own what is really going on in this universe.

The point is? The point is that since we are so limited in our understanding, and evidence seems to be that it will be a long time before enough scientific breakthroughs will be made so that we WILL have enough knowledge to understand anything, we need to look elsewhere for understanding about which religion is more accurate, atheism, State atheism, God, humanism, Emperor as god, whatever.

One thing is clear. People need/want religion. And anybody who thinks that atheism is not a religion, doesn't really realize that his ignorance is so great that he has deluded himself into believing that he knows way more about the operation of the universe and life than anybody actually knows.

Where can we go for more info, since science isn't providing it? Religious writings/books, the writers of which might have written as philosophy, or they might have written under revelation from God Himself. Since scientists don't know it, check out the other writings. The list of religions can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_text.

Remember, science does NOT have factual evidence for ages beyond about 4,500 years ago. All scientific expression that talks about the age of the earth beyond 4,500 years ago is guesswork. Why? Because the evidences that might suggest how old something is beyond 4,500 years, can be interpreted in ways other than the generally accepted scientific understanding. For example, the idea that the earth is millions of years old is, at its base, based on entire guesswork, potentially flawed interpretations of the evidence, and the honest scientists even express it this way.

Since science hasn't provided a clearly factual knowledge of the age of the earth, we can tell that they aren't providing factual knowledge about anything beyond that which can be proven right here and now by simple demonstration.

Find the philosophy or religious book that fits the facts. The one that seems strongest to me is the Bible.

Life can be fun. Yet we all have fear of the unknown, at least a little. Examine the religions to find knowledge, because science doesn't really have it. Atheism is a religion because we don't have facts that say that God does NOT exist. Atheists simply base their thinking on belief. Atheism is a religion.

Smiley
newbie
Activity: 59
Merit: 0
August 12, 2014, 11:38:23 AM
#82
Atheism is a belief also.
sr. member
Activity: 994
Merit: 441
August 12, 2014, 11:35:54 AM
#81
Now the proof is complete.  Atheists commit less crime...fact.  Countries with the most atheists have the highest quality of life indices....fact.   Dictatorships are almost always bad and have absolutely nothing to do with atheism....fact.

Now zolace run along and go start another thread about something equally as retarded as this one.
sr. member
Activity: 994
Merit: 441
August 12, 2014, 11:31:21 AM
#80
Look ....with your indoctrinated mush of a brain, you are ALWAYS going to believe atheism is bad.  That's fine.  But when you dishonestly try to associate it with anything else bad you will be made a fool.......as always.   Atheism in and of itself does not result in bad behavior.  The evidence is clear.  The lowest crime rate of any nation on earth happens in a country with the most atheists.  Only 18% of people in Sweden believe there is a god.  This must clearly be a hellhole of a lawless nation ....no???   They have the lowest incarceration rate in the world and have the lowest assault rate in the world, five times lower than the US, a nation of good Christian believers.
Which, by the way - your disgreement is with the article itself - and your means of doing so is by disagreeing with their definition.  Nevertheless, every state that they list that has promoted atheism - none of them are anything to write home to Ma about.
Atheism is a confounding variable.  The dependent variable is the dictatorship.  Atheism flowed from that, not the other way around.  The dictator merely wanted himself to the center of worship; hence, it is the dictator that is evil...not atheism.  This is called a spurious relationship.   Since you have never googled the word despite my many requests, it is a correlation that is not supported by causation. In other words, atheist nations are correlated with bad behavior. Is it the atheism that caused it?  Since the only nations that have ever been atheist are dictatorships, and ALL dictatorships are bad......we CANNOT conclude that atheism had ANYTHING to do with it....especially since other nations full of atheists have no such human rights issues.   Spurious relationship.


Apparently that article in the OP makes you uncomfortable.  You keep mixing up states that promote atheism with states that are secular.

So, lets ask this:

1.Do you think all dictators are evil?

2.Would you consider kings/queens types of dictators in any way?

3.Does atheism offer hope to people in any way?

The op doesn't make me uncomfortable at all.  You are just wrong.  There IS A solid argument that people who are atheists are better people.  Im not making that argument but the data from nations with majority atheists suggests its true.  Im not uncomfortable with anything you say.  Im just telling you that you are wrong.  I'm not debating with you.  Im telling you.   You on the other hand are also not debating...you are demonstrating your stupidity.


It does not make you uncomfortable?  Yet, the below questions were not answered.

Lets try again:


1.Do you think all dictators are evil?

2.Would you consider kings/queens types of dictators in any way?

3.Does atheism offer hope to people in any way?

1. Most
2. Some
3. Yes

you though you had a point.  I have already proven beyond any doubt that atheism in an of itself does not lead to bad behavior.  Go to a prison .....interview the violent offenders.   Take a guess at how many are Christian and how many are atheist.


http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/why-atheists-make-85-percent-americas-scientists-and-07-percent-its-prison

Atheists make up 0.07 percent of the prison population....yet they make up 10% of the general population.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism#North_America

That is statistically significant and any researcher would conclude that atheists are statistically less likely to be arrested for a crime and imprisoned.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
August 12, 2014, 11:06:34 AM
#79
My position has always been straight-forward and beyond doubt.You are a believer in superstitious nonsense.  Christianity is equal to belief in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy.
All I need to is to present people like You,as witness...

You can't tell the difference except to claim it's a matter of opinion.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
August 12, 2014, 11:00:29 AM
#78
The write up doesn't really hit me but its clean and clear that Atheists will never accept there's a supreme being called GOD Almighty.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
August 12, 2014, 10:50:47 AM
#77
Elimination of religious dogma that makes people beleve they are born "evil".

How totally fucked-up is it to teach children from DAY ONE that they are born "bad"?

Are you even capable of knowing how fucked-up your religion is?
You say you are not an atheist - so I ask you:

Why do you believe in things without any evidence for them?

If you say you are simply agnostic - many agnostics are just atheists under the cover.

I'm not agnostic,Zolace. When are you ever going to get that thru your thick skull.

I do not believe anything that has been proved wrong; ie, your religious beliefs.
You are saying you are not an atheist, nor agnostic.

Why don't you come right out and say what you believe?  Theist?  Pantheist?  What?
It doesn't matter what  YOU think I believe. You are the one who continues digging the hole. Your religious beliefs are wrong, and the evidence supports it.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
August 12, 2014, 10:44:59 AM
#76
Elimination of religious dogma that makes people beleve they are born "evil".

How totally fucked-up is it to teach children from DAY ONE that they are born "bad"?

Are you even capable of knowing how fucked-up your religion is?
You say you are not an atheist - so I ask you:

Why do you believe in things without any evidence for them?

If you say you are simply agnostic - many agnostics are just atheists under the cover.

I'm not agnostic,Zolace. When are you ever going to get that thru your thick skull.

I do not believe anything that has been proved wrong; ie, your religious beliefs.
You are saying you are not an atheist, nor agnostic.

Why don't you come right out and say what you believe?  Theist?  Pantheist?  What?
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
August 12, 2014, 10:36:08 AM
#75
Elimination of religious dogma that makes people beleve they are born "evil".

How totally fucked-up is it to teach children from DAY ONE that they are born "bad"?

Are you even capable of knowing how fucked-up your religion is?
You say you are not an atheist - so I ask you:

Why do you believe in things without any evidence for them?

If you say you are simply agnostic - many agnostics are just atheists under the cover.

I'm not agnostic,Zolace. When are you ever going to get that thru your thick skull.

I do not believe anything that has been proved wrong; ie, your religious beliefs.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
August 12, 2014, 10:30:46 AM
#74
Elimination of religious dogma that makes people beleve they are born "evil".

How totally fucked-up is it to teach children from DAY ONE that they are born "bad"?

Are you even capable of knowing how fucked-up your religion is?
You say you are not an atheist - so I ask you:

Why do you believe in things without any evidence for them?

If you say you are simply agnostic - many agnostics are just atheists under the cover.
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