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Topic: State of Florida attacks Bitcoin (Read 8269 times)

legendary
Activity: 1344
Merit: 1000
February 19, 2014, 06:28:20 AM
We will have to wait and see if they cop a plea or go to trial.

Are they in custody or were they released on bond?

If I'm reading things correctly at http://www.miamidade.gov/corrections/inmate-information.asp then both Espinoza and Reid are still in custody. To get out they need to prove at a Nebbia hearing that the bail premium/collateral is not from an illegal source.

Jesus, still not bonded out over selling some digital coins?  Getting treated like they killed somebody.

They are not fucking around.

even small violations of anything can be treated very/overly seriously
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1005
February 18, 2014, 12:23:05 PM
For an explanation of Florida, just look for the Twitter feed of "Florida Man."  Basically, someone Googles for "Florida Man" and then posts the stories on Twitter, pretending they're about the world's worst superhero, a guy named "Florida Man."

Almost any news story with a "Florida Man" headline involves an insane, stupid act of some sort.

For instance, top hit on Google News currently:

Florida Man Arrested For FB Post Soliciting $100 Hitman to Kill a Cop

If you are in a bind, send up the Bat signal.  Do not call Florida Man.
full member
Activity: 214
Merit: 100
February 18, 2014, 10:29:35 AM
Florida is an ideal pro-dollars state. The reason is, it has lots of retirees who are on Social Security. Retire to Florida the saying used to be. And that's what thousands of elderly people have done.

The state has been living off the money those retirees spend, and neither the retirees or the state want anything to do with a form of trade that could destroy money and their way of life.

Think of it. If Bitcoin became popular, and people started using it in place of money in a big way, we could actually see a collapse of the money system. That would mean the collapse of both the resources for the retired elderly, and the state as well.

While this will not likely happen for some time, Florida is having nothing to do with it. They are "nipping it in the bud" so to speak, and trying to earn some free money off the accused, who probably won't get their money back even if the charges are dropped.

Smiley

Great read +1
BCB
vip
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1002
BCJ
February 16, 2014, 09:05:18 PM
We will have to wait and see if they cop a plea or go to trial.

Are they in custody or were they released on bond?

If I'm reading things correctly at http://www.miamidade.gov/corrections/inmate-information.asp then both Espinoza and Reid are still in custody. To get out they need to prove at a Nebbia hearing that the bail premium/collateral is not from an illegal source.

Jesus, still not bonded out over selling some digital coins?  Getting treated like they killed somebody.

They are not fucking around.
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1005
February 16, 2014, 08:15:28 PM
We will have to wait and see if they cop a plea or go to trial.

Are they in custody or were they released on bond?

If I'm reading things correctly at http://www.miamidade.gov/corrections/inmate-information.asp then both Espinoza and Reid are still in custody. To get out they need to prove at a Nebbia Hearing that the bail premium/collateral is not from an illegal source.

Both criminal complaints had the Nebbia hearing notation.  Sounds correct to me.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
February 16, 2014, 06:08:45 PM
We will have to wait and see if they cop a plea or go to trial.

Are they in custody or were they released on bond?

If I'm reading things correctly at http://www.miamidade.gov/corrections/inmate-information.asp then both Espinoza and Reid are still in custody. To get out they need to prove at a Nebbia hearing that the bail premium/collateral is not from an illegal source.
BCB
vip
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1002
BCJ
February 16, 2014, 05:45:25 PM
We will have to wait and see if they cop a plea or go to trial.

Are they in custody or were they released on bond?
legendary
Activity: 4466
Merit: 3391
February 16, 2014, 01:08:34 AM
Hey, let's stop arguing about discussing these silly points and get back to the major discussion.


Is there any other news or statements related to these arrests? Anyone here know them?
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
February 15, 2014, 11:13:54 PM
I'm not saying possessing stolen credit card #'s isn't against the law.  But, most information laws are not based on theft laws.  Copyright infringement, for example, is infringement, not theft.  Judges have become upset when lawyers begin to use the word "theft" in their courts, because legally, copyright infringement has nothing to do with theft.      

Theft of credit card information is more like theft of trade secrets than copyright infringement.

That said, I'm not saying that possession of stolen credit card numbers is against the law. I couldn't find any law against possession in itself, only possession with intent to defraud.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 1199
February 15, 2014, 06:31:32 PM
Propaganda is not argument.

sure it is not.
But propaganda is a seed of destruction.
sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 250
Earn with impressio.io
February 15, 2014, 06:24:37 PM
Is buying stolen CC numbers a crime? Using the numbers would be but would possession of the numbers be illegal?



Possession of stolen property is against the law.

I'm not saying possessing stolen credit card #'s isn't against the law.  But, most information laws are not based on theft laws.  Copyright infringement, for example, is infringement, not theft.  Judges have become upset when lawyers begin to use the word "theft" in their courts, because legally, copyright infringement has nothing to do with theft.     

Theft is based on the assumption that someone lost a possession.  If your bike is stolen, you no longer have a bike.  Our theft laws are based on physical possessions.  Only recently have we coined the term "intellectual property" do describe man made information based concepts.  That term is not really embedded in our law as property.  It is usually defined as a "right" not property.  Copyright infringement is, in theory, an infringement of one's right to limit copying.  It is not theft.  Patent infringement is even more abstract as it defines a right to limit the creation of objects from concepts rather than defining the right to create an exact replica of an object, like a book.

The ability to purchase product and services using information, such as credit card numbers, is a relatively new concept in law compared to our theft laws.  To be sure, using that credit card to steal money is still likely stealing, because that is money, which is pretty well cemented in theft laws.  But, merely possessing a copy of a number is not theft.  In fact, it is very legal to have a copy of someone's credit card number if they shared it with you.  If it weren't, it would be nearly impossible to accept credit cards online, let alone store them for customer convenience. 




 
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
February 15, 2014, 04:54:57 PM
People who say we should legalize drugs and tax them need to be corrected (if you look above, I've personally already done so once). But people who say we should legalize drugs and don't mention taxes, don't need to be criticized.

We don't have this choice, though.  If something gets legalized, it is pretty much a matter of course that it will also be taxed, just like every other form of economic activity.  Now, perhaps this isn't the way it should be, but that's the way it is.  In any event, allowed but taxed is an incremental step in the right direction, and is preferable to prohibited.

So if we had prohibited, allowed but taxed, and allowed and untaxed on our menu of choices, the latter might be the best option.  But we don't.  In fact, it would be damn near a miracle if we even had "allowed but taxed" on our menu.

I'm not sure what you mean. Economic activity is taxed whether it's legal or not.
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1005
February 15, 2014, 02:39:08 PM
People who say we should legalize drugs and tax them need to be corrected (if you look above, I've personally already done so once). But people who say we should legalize drugs and don't mention taxes, don't need to be criticized.

We don't have this choice, though.  If something gets legalized, it is pretty much a matter of course that it will also be taxed, just like every other form of economic activity.  Now, perhaps this isn't the way it should be, but that's the way it is.  In any event, allowed but taxed is an incremental step in the right direction, and is preferable to prohibited.

So if we had prohibited, allowed but taxed, and allowed and untaxed on our menu of choices, the latter might be the best option.  But we don't.  In fact, it would be damn near a miracle if we even had "allowed but taxed" on our menu.
newbie
Activity: 13
Merit: 0
February 15, 2014, 02:19:21 PM
Is buying stolen CC numbers a crime? Using the numbers would be but would possession of the numbers be illegal?



Possession of stolen property is against the law.
hero member
Activity: 898
Merit: 1000
February 15, 2014, 02:05:03 PM
I found this statement to fit in ironically with the "victimless" part of this thread.  To recap, someone stated earlier in this thread that the victims of drug violence are due to the war on drugs rather than drugs themselves.  

The district attorney, unhappy with the grand jury letting the defendant go on capital murder charges, said:

The self-defense laws in Texas are viewed in the mindset of the actor, not the victim, which allows for tragedies to occur when one party is acting lawfully, but it can be reasonably seen as a threat of deadly force by another. However, the Burleson County Sheriff’s Office would not have been there that day if Mr. Magee had not decided to live a lifestyle of doing and producing illegal drugs in his home. Therefore, we will fully prosecute the drug charges against him. This event should wake the community up that drug crimes are not victimless.

Texas Grand Jury Refuses To Indict Homeowner In Shooting Death Of Sheriff’s Deputy


The violent shooting you reference would not have occurred if drugs were legal and produced in a safe setting like alcohol.

The cause of the violence is most definitely the war on drugs....that's the nature of war.  The drugs themselves are not the cause of the 10,000+ murders per year in Mexico, or the 500+ murders per year in Chicago.

People working in a black market can't use the legal system to enforce their contracts, so they turn to violence instead.


Prohibition leads to a massive increase in violence and widespread corruption.  We learned this during alcohol prohibition in the 30's, and we're learning it again with drug prohibition in the new millenium.

Its funny how throughout history, whenever there are wars, there are parties with particular interests profiting immensely from the conflict. Doesn't matter whether we're talking about a war in the conventional sense, where young men are sent to the other side of the world to kill brown people, and in turn risk getting killed themselves, or whether the war is completely stupid, against something as abstract as a chemical structure, which also leads to casualties of war i.e. young people, also quite often brown, locked up in prisons and more or less having their lives destroyed, all for the sake of profits.
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1005
February 15, 2014, 07:41:14 AM
Propaganda is not argument.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
February 15, 2014, 06:04:54 AM
You wouldn't have meth kingpins like Zhenli Ye Gon paying $0 in taxes on their piles of $207 million dollars:
[image]

The issue I'm raising isn't people not paying taxes.  

The IRS replaces the war on drugs.  People think of the Charlie Shrem case as drug related because of silk road.  But, the agent accusing him and signing the filing with the court a "special agent with Internal Revenue Service".  

Isn't this the moral of the story of Al Capone?  

"regulations" and "war" can be used interchangeably.

So we shouldn't rescue the gal from the burning building because she has high cholesterol and will probably die from a heart attack eventually anyway?

The war on success needs to be ended just as well as the war on drugs. But let's not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

People who say we should legalize drugs and tax them need to be corrected (if you look above, I've personally already done so once). But people who say we should legalize drugs and don't mention taxes, don't need to be criticized.
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
Firing it up
February 15, 2014, 01:57:34 AM
Regardless where, People like to grab these infomation at the lowest cost by trying to attack famous exchanges, or limit it while they do in umbra.
newbie
Activity: 13
Merit: 0
February 15, 2014, 12:35:33 AM
They don't what to catch rapers,murders & thieves they want to mess with the citizens. Angry
sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 250
Earn with impressio.io
February 15, 2014, 12:30:01 AM
You wouldn't have meth kingpins like Zhenli Ye Gon paying $0 in taxes on their piles of $207 million dollars:


The issue I'm raising isn't people not paying taxes.  

The IRS replaces the war on drugs.  People think of the Charlie Shrem case as drug related because of silk road.  But, the agent accusing him and signing the filing with the court a "special agent with Internal Revenue Service".  

Isn't this the moral of the story of Al Capone?  

"regulations" and "war" can be used interchangeably.
  


  
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