Topic: State of Florida attacks Bitcoin - page 2. (Read 8213 times)

Indeed, what are the most common products stolen in convenience store armed robberies, along with the money? If you watch enough CCTV videos, it seems to be cigarettes, then alcohol.

But how do you deal with armed robbers? You shoot them. Or you obey "gun control" and get shot/stabbed/beaten yourself because you were legally effectively defenseless.

To be sure, I don't believe in incarcerating users.  They need rehabilitation, not incarceration.  But, I originally viewed the war on drugs as trying to keep them out of our country.  In your model, you create a legal import business, presumably highly taxed.  At some point, taxes get so high, that tax evasion becomes an issue.  I remember that the document accusing Shem was signed by the Internal Revenue Service, IIRC.  Doesn't tax evasion become an issue?

An, let's not pretend there won't be high taxes.  Just look at cigarettes.  The non-tax price is under $1 per pack. 
 

Being a marijuana case, I completely agree in this case.  It is less harmful than alcohol.  The guy had a gun and a plant that doesn't kill anyone. 

Physically addicting drugs are different, though.  There's good reason to hate their impact -- like death, compulsive stealing, etc,...  Drugs like crack spread like an infection.  They enslave people.  Those who distribute them will have ultimate power. It's hard to imagine legalizing them as being perfectly rosy. How do we balance the destructiveness of the war on drugs with the destructiveness of physically destructive drugs? 

Well that's circular logic at it's finest. Actual logic: No unconstitutional drug law enforcement in the first place equals no unconstitutional drug law enforcers being shot in self-defense as they induce mortal fear in people who have unconstitutionally banned PLANTS in their homes.

That's hilarious on several levels.

I found this statement to fit in ironically with the "victimless" part of this thread.  To recap, someone stated earlier in this thread that the victims of drug violence are due to the war on drugs rather than drugs themselves.  

The district attorney, unhappy with the grand jury letting the defendant go on capital murder charges, said:

The self-defense laws in Texas are viewed in the mindset of the actor, not the victim, which allows for tragedies to occur when one party is acting lawfully, but it can be reasonably seen as a threat of deadly force by another. However, the Burleson County Sheriff’s Office would not have been there that day if Mr. Magee had not decided to live a lifestyle of doing and producing illegal drugs in his home. Therefore, we will fully prosecute the drug charges against him. This event should wake the community up that drug crimes are not victimless.

Texas Grand Jury Refuses To Indict Homeowner In Shooting Death Of Sheriff’s Deputy

They're complicit? Great.

Umm, except that they don't do that.

I don't see anything about buying them. And I only see possession with intent to defraud mentioned.

You're seriously asking this?  Yes, of course it is.  18 U.S.C. § 1029 and a host of related statutes.  I'm not sure which is most commonly prosecuted, but seriously, you're asking if buying stolen credit numbers is a crime or not?  WTF?  Does it take a genius to realize it is?

It should only be a crime of stupidity once the source of the DB dump is known to AmEx/Visa/MC/Discover. Why? Every time there is a hack of credit card number databases, all the credit card companies have to do is shitcan all the numbers with the merchant field of the transaction showing the hacked merchant. So for example, Target credit card hack: all credit cards with 'Target' charges made to them in the past 60 days, shitcan, issue new card number, 2 weeks later physical card arrives at cardholder's billing address.

Anybody buying a list of invalidated, now effectively random numbers (that they can't use for anything other than toilet paper) is stupid, but the prison industry would sure like to have them as another inmate to profit from.

Is buying stolen CC numbers a crime? Using the numbers would be but would possession of the numbers be illegal?

Haha agreed.  I don't think we can have our cake and eat it too though.

I don't. All drugs should be legal and untaxed, including alcohol.

You can completely support the "war on physically addicting drugs" and separate money laundering from the laws.  I've seen the destructiveness of physically addicting drugs on people's lives enough to hate the harm they cause, such as heroin and cocaine.  Marijuana does not have these issues, and is less harmful than alcohol, so, like alchohol, should be legal and taxed, with limited personal growth permitted since it is a plant. 

Now, when money laundering laws were introduced, they were introduced with the context you presented, to go after drug cartels.  They promised they would only be used to stop THEIR money laundering activities.  If I believed they could limit the reach to this purpose, I would of supported it hands down.  I would love to stop drug cartels.  But, I knew it was inevitable that what begins this way will eventually reach the common man.  The fact that they didn't tie the reporting thresholds to inflation guaranteed that increasingly small transactions from everyday citizens would be caught up in this, instead of drug cartels. 

Now today, not only are we discussing Espinoza, an ordinary citizen just buying and selling digital assets in transaction amounts that are less than a years wage for the average American, but other non-bitcoin related impacts to ordinary citizens, such as this women's new inability to get gas and diaper money to her son!  Did refusing to let her deposit $150 into her son's account stop drug cartels from importing cocaine into the United States? 

There comes a point when the victims are people like Espinoza, this woman and her son.  Clearly, she's a victim of our money laundering laws gone too far.  How do we hold the government accountable for taking away our freedoms?  When did our money become the government's money and the bank's money?  When did we give up the freedom to trade legal items between each other?  Bitcoins are legal, right?  Cash is legal, right?  Haven't Americans, since the founding of the USA, freely traded legal items without interference and opposition from our elected officials? 

We may differ on whether or not we want to stop the drug cartels.  We can differ on whether or not we want to legalize or continue to fight the importation of certain drugs.  Yet, I believe that vast majority of us can agree that bitcoin traders, this mother and her son should not be victims of money laundering laws!

I don't need to ask them.  I have logic.  As others have pointed out, when alcohol was prohibited, murder related to alcohol smuggling crimes skyrocketed.  Is drinking a beer therefore inherently a heinous crime? 

Obviously not.

Citing the costs prohibition itself creates is not a great argument for prohibition.  In fact, you just cited reasons prohibition is an abject failure and should be abandoned.

I agree with you there too bud.

Why don't you ask one of these family members if drug cartels and money laundering used to support their activities are "victimless" crime.

in Mexico alone "more than 60,000 people were killed in drug-related violence from 2006 to 2012, according to Human Rights Watch."

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/27/world/americas/mexico-violence

Exactly.  Many people are of that worldview.  The concept of a "victimless crime" only applies when someone is unwilling to view the public at large as a victim (or set of victims), many people feel that there is no such thing as a "victimless crime", since society (and therefore all members of society) is a victim of any crime.

Ah yes, make sure you also include a mixture of people who believe and people who don't believe in the power of prayer.