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Topic: Steem pyramid scheme revealed - page 9. (Read 107064 times)

member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
October 18, 2017, 06:18:59 PM
Steem’s blockchain (including the user data for both Steemit.com and busy.org) has apparently been offline for roughly a half-day already and still ongoing downtime.

How can this DPoS centralized ledger design that powers EOS, Steem(it), Lisk, Ark, and others be relied upon if it can entirely go offline for hours or days?

More details about Dan’s boondoogle Frankenstein premeditated scam creations.

The meatpuppet is back, 72 pages of pure BS, that's what happens when you can't create anything of value, you only try to do harm.

The real question is how can anyone trust/rely on YOU with all this BS coming out of your mouth.

The link in your quote included the lengthy discussion wherein @smooth clarified the matter and we discussed it further. I suggest readers read all of that to get a more balanced view than what I what above.

As for the EOS ICO probably being an illegal security and the whales being in control of who earns on Steemit, I have not yet seen a cogent rebuttal to my points. Readers can dig into the details upthread and the quoted link above to the EOS discussion.
legendary
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
October 18, 2017, 06:24:15 AM
Steem’s blockchain (including the user data for both Steemit.com and busy.org) has apparently been offline for roughly a half-day already and still ongoing downtime.

How can this DPoS centralized ledger design that powers EOS, Steem(it), Lisk, Ark, and others be relied upon if it can entirely go offline for hours or days?

More details about Dan’s boondoogle Frankenstein premeditated scam creations.

The meatpuppet is back, 72 pages of pure BS, that's what happens when you can't create anything of value, you only try to do harm.

The real question is how can anyone trust/rely on YOU with all this BS coming out of your mouth.



 

member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
October 18, 2017, 03:25:40 AM
Steemit supporters are using the Vegas incident to promote their censorship resistance (remember dtube is a Steem blockchain app):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maoeCjI9o6E

Kudos on the guerilla (viral?) marketing.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
October 06, 2017, 12:50:44 PM
Steem’s blockchain (including the user data for both Steemit.com and busy.org) has apparently been offline for roughly a half-day already and still ongoing downtime.

How can this DPoS centralized ledger design that powers EOS, Steem(it), Lisk, Ark, and others be relied upon if it can entirely go offline for hours or days?

More details about Dan’s boondoogle Frankenstein premeditated scam creations.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
October 06, 2017, 12:47:49 PM
Whatever but holding 80% with them is too much.It is hard to earn steem now.Its because Steemit was designed for early adopters, not a fair distribution.Its hard for a newbie to earn with an excellent post while an early member can easily get hundreds with a shitty old post.
it's because their vote system. need invest more than 10k to get 1$ upvote. 20$ per day. 600$ per month. this is game for big player

You don't need to invest anything. There are plenty of dolphins and whales who upvote good content and you get paid for it.

I just started looking at it a few weeks ago. None of this thread really makes sense and seems like a bunch of people spreading FUD.

It looks like it has its  own hangup Iguess in that they pre-minded it. But I went and looked through a bunch of stuff and see a huge community prospering. So.... Don't buy any steem then! Just ust the platform and earn it.

Easy!
member
Activity: 86
Merit: 10
October 02, 2017, 11:44:09 AM
I don't know why some people are surprised about the crash in Steem price, it was designed to fail with the distribution of their tokens, well conceived idea but the developers/ speculators greediness is biting back. Even the new set rules still have some weakness but could help if the market regain trust of the project but I doubt this because alot of people have been burnt already
newbie
Activity: 38
Merit: 0
October 02, 2017, 10:01:15 AM
What bounties are coming up? Where do you find them?
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 501
October 02, 2017, 09:56:20 AM
Whatever but holding 80% with them is too much.It is hard to earn steem now.Its because Steemit was designed for early adopters, not a fair distribution.Its hard for a newbie to earn with an excellent post while an early member can easily get hundreds with a shitty old post.
Posting in steem is wasting time, you will earn nothing, you 'd better join bounty program, in one or three month you will earn 5000 times than doing activities in steem , I have tried steem, it was boring and disgusting, creating great post earn zero. Fuck steem.
newbie
Activity: 31
Merit: 0
October 02, 2017, 08:39:59 AM
Looks like society will never learn to avoid pyramid schemes. Even those who know - just hope to jump in, pump and dump, really being an accomplice. I recently read pyramid and ponzi are big in China now btw and the government is taking action, perhaps ICO ban was part of this. This is why regulation is needed as it seems decentralized systems just can't deal with some problems.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
October 02, 2017, 07:42:10 AM
Whatever but holding 80% with them is too much.It is hard to earn steem now.Its because Steemit was designed for early adopters, not a fair distribution.Its hard for a newbie to earn with an excellent post while an early member can easily get hundreds with a shitty old post.
it's because their vote system. need invest more than 10k to get 1$ upvote. 20$ per day. 600$ per month. this is game for big player
full member
Activity: 459
Merit: 104
October 02, 2017, 07:40:39 AM
Yes steem is a scam, I was part of it for some days, worked to comment and vote and received some 10-50 cents for all my activity. They say that if you work day by day you will be rewarded, ther are poeple there earning 1-2 USD/day after working for some weeks. Not a chance to earn tenss of dollars as they promised. Steem is scam as many other new inventions that pay in alt-coins.

Thank you for saying this here, I had a hunch that Steem is a scam, now I am certain on it.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
October 02, 2017, 07:34:51 AM
Whatever but holding 80% with them is too much.It is hard to earn steem now.Its because Steemit was designed for early adopters, not a fair distribution.Its hard for a newbie to earn with an excellent post while an early member can easily get hundreds with a shitty old post.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
October 02, 2017, 07:34:43 AM
Apparently, some people should check the definition of Ponzi... It's clearly not the case for steem, but people don't like to read whitepaper, they prefer yelling first...

You were feeling very smug, superior, and self-confident when you wrote that huh?  Roll Eyes  (and I did read the entire whitepaper in 2016)

The thread title says “pyramid scheme”. Which is the economic reality of Steem.

Steem can’t be an investment for anyone who isn’t a whale as previously explained. A speculation yes, but an investment based on a sound fundamentals no. Any system that is designed to allow the whales to debase the money supply and take it for themselves is not an investment, just as holding the US dollar is not an investment.

Steem is just another damn central bank run by whales debasing everyone and offering some crumbs to buy off the minions. Sounds a lot like most governments we have.

(Just because you never thought of it correctly that way, do not blame me for my “abysmal reasoning” ability to do so)


A pyramid scheme is a business model that recruits members via a promise of payments or services for enrolling others into the scheme, rather than supplying investments or sale of products or services.
full member
Activity: 215
Merit: 100
CryptoFan
October 02, 2017, 06:59:09 AM
Apparently, some people should check the definition of Ponzi... It's clearly not the case for steem, but people don't like to read whitepaper, they prefer yelling first...
full member
Activity: 462
Merit: 114
October 02, 2017, 06:37:41 AM
Let's look behind the developments and behind this topic. I would like to have developers give their comments on this matter. Since I am the holder of Steem, I'm interested!
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
October 02, 2017, 06:08:08 AM
because the dev holds the funds to pay you out doesnt mean that its pyramid
hero member
Activity: 2156
Merit: 685
October 01, 2017, 06:49:49 PM
Steem is a worse way of pyramid scheme. If you are not in top level or 2nd level you probably gain very low value, which is questionable. Why would you write something to get some money from other people? When you realize it's a waste of time you will stop using the platform.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
October 01, 2017, 06:13:15 PM
steem is really a piramid. But as for me i took a good money from it. of course for profit a common user must only take money, no power up. Lets look on chart today - everything is awful. Devs have done a hardfork but it did not help a lot. a have gone from steemit two mounth ago. good luck steemers.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
October 01, 2017, 03:14:22 PM

Wondering if some old timers can help me out with a simple ques

We have SteemIt which is a working product already with the number of users and hits per days keeps increasing

Other side, we have multiple promising projects (OMG, Maid, NXS) but nothing in live.....

Including me, many of us tend to take chance and gamble with the projects that's not yet out in market and by large extent have ignored a working product. I am looking at SteemIt at this point, though things looks solid to me, the above ques is kind of haunting me to think that I am missing something and there is something seriously wrong in SteemIt.

Please feel free to stop by and have your comment!

The main impediment to a business model that could drive massive ecosystem adoption is the instasneakymine that put a small number of whales in control and they are essentially debasing the money supply (via the voting and curation rewards) and sending it to themselves via numerous sockpuppets and owning DPoS witness accounts. So essentially instead of being an open system that incentivizes everyone to build apps for it, only the whales are incentivized build apps (i.e. there is no open competition of the best ideas), thus you end up with xerox copy GUIs such as busy.org which add not much of any value. There are some other apps built on the Steem blockchain though, such as a decentralized chat, but I have not yet had time to try them.

James A. Donald who was the first person who communicated with Satoshi on the mailing list where Bitcoin was announced, confirms that DPoS is not decentralized (DPoS is the blockchain technology of Bitshares, Steem, EOS, Lisk, Ark, and any Steem clones).

There is no possible way to design a voting system that pays rewards by debasing the collective money supply, which will be fair. I had written a blog explaining this mathematically:

https://steemit.com/steem/@anonymint/blog-rewards-can-t-be-widely-distributed

In my analysis, it is the economics of Steem as it pertains to incentivizing others to make apps for it, and the way that users are incentivized that does not correlate well to viral onboarding and app development. However, compared to all the other altcoins, it is the one with probably the most widespread use by people other than just speculators. So it does seem to be undervalued.

So although conceptually it is interesting, you are really going to need my project which will correct these flaws.



Re: Who is paying for Steemit?

Hi Guys, I am trying to do some fundamental research on Steem but there is one thing I don't understand and that i'm not finding the answer on. Who does actually pay for this whole project.

Answer is here.

In short, everyone who owns the STEEM token pays for the rewards which are created by minting new STEEM tokens out-of-thin-air, but this burden is disproportionate because whales are able to redirect most of the money supply dilution to themselves via their numerous sockpuppet bloggers.

It is analogous to a masternode or proof-of-stake coin, where the whales siphon off most of the transaction fees and any minting of coins disproportionately.

To add, STEEM has a cetain reputation to each members, the higher the reputation the more likely you can upvote a certain topic there.

Incorrect. Steem Power (how many STEEM tokens you have locked up for 13 week holding period) determines your power in the voting and curation rewards.

The reputation thing is just a number which has no real impact other than readers see the number on all your comments. I have a high reputation at Steemit because I joined in July 2016, but my Steem Power is low because I sold most of my STEEM.



However, i feel like the distribution of Steem initially is completely unfair. There was a period of time where whales mined the rewards, without having to contribute to the network in any way. That was sort of the premine period where all of the founders + some people from bitshares were able to gain a large stash of steem.

And because afaik the whales can route the voting rewards (via their sockpuppet bloggers) and curation rewards disproportionately to themselves, the distribution only gets more unfair over time.

And the disproportionality is afaik even worse than proportional to the whales’ disporportionate share of the Steem Power, because a square power had to be employed else the system could be gamed and destroyed. I had explained that in more detail in my blog from 2016.

The entire concept of voting on dilution of the money supply is insolubly flawed. Again read the linked blog from 2016 which explained it.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
September 12, 2017, 05:45:01 PM
Incorrect. Whales can vote to award most of the rewards to themselves. And as I explained last year, it is impossible to design a voting rewards from the collective money supply system that wouldn't aggregate the rewards to the whales.

I havent read your entire post but you started criticizing linear rewards, and I really don't get it.

Re-read it until you understand it. Everything else you wrote about it, it's nonsense exhibiting that you did not comprehend it.

One thing I could imagine is that a person empties his entire VP on himself, but remember voting is a social thing. If nobody votes after him then he barely makes money. So yeah a person can vote on himself but the way I experienced it's more profitable to vote on others instead.

Not in the case of colluding whales with significant portion of powered up money supply.

Secondly there is erosion, whales powering down, more investors buying in, and eventually you will have tens of thousands or millions of minnows joining together in some sort of delegation pool (like you see with miners now) who will have enough power to equalize themselves.

You do not comprehend political economics and power vacuums.

You may even be a Libertard. That's the succinct way of asserting that everything you wrote exhibits a lack of understanding of reality.

For example, the argument you make about if some group was omnipotent they would enslave all of us. Yeah. Anyone who was omnipotent could enslave us all. But no one is omnipotent. If you go breaking the laws and creating a system where the whales rape the system, then you end up in a clusterfuck, which is precisely what Steem is and will increasingly become.

If you want to waste your effort building apps for system like that, then please do.

Meanwhile I will focus my efforts on a system I designed which will be truly decentralized and not break securities laws. I would ask you to write apps for it and gain my advice on marketing, so you could succeed and make a lot of money while also helping genuinely evolve the world, but since you're too stubborn to even comprehend the blog post I linked for you, then I think it is pointless for me to try to work with you. Wouldn't you agree?

I want to work with top developers in the industry, not with crazy paranoid people who lack coherent logic skills and who willfully break the law and try to rationalize it with nonsense.

I want to make systems that the masses can feel comfortable to adopt, not crazy fringe shit that the masses will run away from.

When you cited 300,000 signups for Steem and I countered that I had seen many Indians signing up noticed them doing deleterious activities such as posting one word comments on my blogs (ostensibly attempting to get an upvote for minimal effort) or only asking me to follow them, I asserted most would be opportunists looking to extract value from the system while destroying it, i.e. and only scammy Indians looking to extract value from it, will join. I have experienced first hand for example Indians guys trying to scam me here in the Philippines  and also when I tried to hire some virtual workers online I encountered what seems to be a cultural attitude of "get mine any way I can". Upthread you criticized me as rascist, but I run into Indian foreign exchange students on a frequent basis here in the Philippines and so far they are the most arrogant and discourteous people I have ever met. Even experienced multiple times females (and males) refusing to make eye contact and pretending they do not see me and try to walk right over me in an area where there is plenty of space to avoid a collision (and doing it not with body language of being timid but one of being arrogant). They will walk right over you on the sidewalk and pretend your a piece of shit for not getting out of their way. I presume just like the Philippines where I have lived on/off for more than 2 decades, there is a reason that India is a hell hole. That does not mean there might not be some good people in India and other 3rd world clusterfucks like the Philippines. And I would of course like to build systems that help people all over the world. But I can also tell you that the gentlemen's culture I experienced growing up in the USA, does not appear to have any place in the culture of some of these 3rd world clusterfucks. If you privately discuss with the locals, the astute ones will criticize their own cultures and admit their countrymen have crab bucket mentality that originates from clan tribalism.

Maybe if you actually lived in a hell hole, had married a hell hole, and been mired in the clusterfuck of the 3rd world, then you could remove those rose colored glasses and comprehend reality.

I actually agree that the world is moving more and more towards totalitarianism because humans are willing to hand all the power to those who control the issuance of debt and turn their kids over to State schools which teach the kids leftist nonsense. And that is why we need to build truly decentralized systems which are not controlled by the whales. IOHK's Ourobos has the same flaws in that it will not reasonably function without delegates, thus the political economics power vacuum will always apply and it will have the same flaws as DPoS in that regard. We instead need a truly decentralized ledger, i.e. not proof-of-stake. Proof-of-work also can not function without being centralized once the transaction fees rise to significantly more than the block reward.

None of the existing ledger designs ameloriate the centralized clusterfuck. I have the design which solves these issues and which scales decentralized, neither of which delegated proof-of-stake can do.

Also Steem's voting system and onboarding monetization design will not scale up.

Downvoting is an abuse of the intention of upvoters to reward content they appreciate. Downvoting by whales ameliorates the economics of Likes and confirms that Steemit will descend into a crab bucket clusterfuck eventually:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.21680281

Essentially downvoting is censorship. Because my readers did not elect you downvoting whales to be moderators for them. You're forcing your will on readers who do not agree with you. The Internet was liberating because each person could independently publish and source information, yet now Steem wants to tie everyone's shoelaces together again by debasing everyone from a common pool of tokens in order to redistibute everyone's money collectively which is of course a power vacuum of politics clusterfuck totally in antithesis to the innovation of the decentralized Internet protocols. If you do not like my blog, then do not read it. Downvoting is inane, and should only be used to human filter spam. But you want to run your blockchain like a corporation, because it is effectively an investment security corporation. And a corporation can not have more than more CEO. So either you will have an oligarchy that takes control (if not already the case but obfuscated with Sybil accounts) or the blockchain will diverge into a clusterfuck of disagreement.

At the end game collapse is when either the whales start downvoting each other due to fighting over differing ideals and vested interests (which will be accelerated when competition is kicking Steem's butt forcing it to change or die), or an oligarchy takes control of sufficient money supply to run Steem as the corporate token illegal investment security that it is.

The power-law distribution of resources is inviolable. It is a natural outcome of economics and physics. Decentralization technologies have to overcome this fact of nature somehow. So far afaik, no one (other than myself privately) has shown how to accomplish it. Proof-of-work and proof-of-stake have not ameliorated the ill effects of the power-law distribution of resources. Ditto Steem's ill conceived voting paradigm.

EDIT: according to the 24-year old filipino van driver last night he has an Indian student friend who he says is a very good guy. I asked his opinion about the interactions I've had with Indians, and his thought was that maybe they don't like white guys. I'm wondering if it might be caste system related thing. Any way, the reason the foreign exchange students come to the Philippines to study is to improve their English and the low cost. I do remember encountering an older Indian lady on Steemit and she seemed to interact well, but afair she seemed to have had more interaction with foreigners (can't remember the reason, maybe it was her vocation).

EDIT#2: I'm the dinosaur on wishing Indians adopt my ancestors' values.
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