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Topic: Study says being rich is determined by chance rather than intelligence or talent - page 26. (Read 3009 times)

legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1115
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But there is a problem with this idea: while wealth distribution follows a power law, the distribution of human skills generally follows a normal distribution that is symmetric about an average value. For example, intelligence, as measured by IQ tests, follows this pattern. Average IQ is 100, but nobody has an IQ of 1,000 or 10,000.

The same is true of effort, as measured by hours worked. Some people work more hours than average and some work less, but nobody works a billion times more hours than anybody else.

These two aspects are particularly troubling about the methodology and logic of the argument. The logical argument made is that nobody should naturally have thousands of times more wealth than anyone else because nobody can have an IQ thousands of times higher than average or be thousands of times taller. First, there's no logical link there. Second, where the author faults nobody having an IQ of 10,000, it ignores the fact that an IQ can't even be 10,000, which is why nobody has achieved it. Similarly, nobody can be as tall as a skyscraper because it isn't physically possible. By using as a model the fact that these things don't happen as a guidepost for what should happen in wealth distribution naturally, it seems the author is comparing two things that can't be compared, and attributing the difference to luck.

Bill Gates isn't rich because he was the smartest man in the world, or because he was lucky. He's rich because he built a product that hundreds of millions of people found useful and paid for. The main driver of wealth isn't luck or intelligence (although either isn't going to hurt), the determining factor is market utility of what you do.

I wouldn't write off luck completely here. I don't deny that it is market utility of what you do that determines your success in the market at the end of the day but it is not very much different from saying that your wealth is determined by how much money you have or earn. Essentially, what you say is sort of tautology. Many people try to get that market utility but only few succeed. Huge corporations are spending billions on R&D to get there too. So how is it fundamentally different from the same people trying to become rich and wealthy? You still need luck to hit the jackpot with that elusive utility. You are simply revealing the specific mechanism or route by which luck makes wealth these days.

The market itself decides what has market utility and what doesn't. The fact that everyone tries for the most market utility for their products in pursuit of wealth and not everyone achieves it is proof that the market picks the winners and losers. If you re-read what I wrote, I haven't written off lucky completely, I said it doesn't hurt. But ultimately, market utility of your product and not luck determines the wealth you take from it. Indeed it is NOT very different from saying that your wealth is determined by how much money you have and earn, because that's literally the definition of wealth. I'm just saying that the wealth comes from the market utility of what you as an individual create, not luck.

When Bill Gates built Microsoft, it wasn't luck that he built a tool that everyone just happened to find useful. He built a tool that everyone found useful because he surmised (correctly) that everyone needed it.
full member
Activity: 350
Merit: 100
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I agree with this, most people who are rich are those who tend to step out of their comfort zone and manage to be  in the right place at the right time. The opportunities to become rich are money and it is up to us to grab it and take risks. Though I still believe that talent and intelligence are essential to hold and manage your wealth.
newbie
Activity: 1
Merit: 0
True but hard work and intelligence are still the best indicators of success we have.
member
Activity: 633
Merit: 14
Some people who are lucky to have wealth down, some people work hard for it. Can a lazy person become rich with laziness? I think that's impossible. The point of wealth is the opportunity that is maximized by every individual in a certain field that they mastered before. I think the factor of intelligence and talent is only supportive.
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 515
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“It is evident that the most successful individuals are also the luckiest ones,” they say. “And the less successful individuals are also the unluckiest ones.”

This is true, but only to an extent. For example there are individuals who have become rich by robbing their own people while holding positions of ministers, lawmakers and other governmental officials. Almost all of them are very rich although they are definitely not very talented. But can we call them "the luckiest ones"? I don't think so. Can you imagine saying "He was so lucky to have the opportunity to lay his hands on the money instead of transfering it to children's hospital!"?
IMO a great percentage of the richest people in the world are either the ones I described or their genetic relatives, and unfortunately the study doesn't cover this at all.

I tend to disagree with you on this one. Unless you have a favor of an influential figure or come from a prominent family, you should be exceptionally lucky to get into a position on your own where you can "lay your hands on the money". I think the competition in the "field" should be even more cut-throatish than anywhere else. It doesn't mean that it is not possible, but there is always something which we don't know and maybe don't even want to know behind some random dude rising to power.

And just to survive in a revolution you should be twice as lucky. Revolutions devour their children.
member
Activity: 490
Merit: 28
I would have to agree with this. Most of the school dropouts end up being a millionaire or even billionaires. Steve Jobs of Apple, Bill Gates of Microsoft, Mark Zuckerberg of Facebook and Michael Dell of Dell laptops to name a few. These are all dropouts who managed to become rich despite not having to finish school.

Not finishing school or university because you have a better opportunity is not only a sign of talent, but a sign of one of their ability to take risks and prioritise their time.
[/quote
Being rich  is not  just because you're  talented or because of your  education it is the combination of factors that  makes  you rich one  of those are luck like for instance you are the siblings of well off family chances, opportunity being  a risk taker, and  determine to do things you believe that is good. Because there's no such  a perfect science of becoming  rich.
newbie
Activity: 64
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My having cheated death does not make me an authority on luck. But it has motivated me to learn much more about the subject than I otherwise would have. In the process, I have discovered that chance plays a far larger role in life outcomes than most people realize. And yet, the luckiest among us appear especially unlikely to appreciate our good fortune. According to the Pew Research Center, people in higher income brackets are much more likely than those with lower incomes to say that individuals get rich primarily because they work hard. Other surveys bear this out: Wealthy people overwhelmingly attribute their own success to hard work rather than to factors like luck or being in the right place at the right time. That’s troubling, because a growing body of evidence suggests that seeing ourselves as self-made rather than as talented, hardworking, and lucky leads us to be less generous and public-spirited. It may even make the lucky less likely to support the conditions (such as high-quality public infrastructure and education) that made their own success possible.
legendary
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“It is evident that the most successful individuals are also the luckiest ones,” they say. “And the less successful individuals are also the unluckiest ones.”

This is true, but only to an extent. For example there are individuals who have become rich by robbing their own people while holding positions of ministers, lawmakers and other governmental officials. Almost all of them are very rich although they are definitely not very talented. But can we call them "the luckiest ones"? I don't think so. Can you imagine saying "He was so lucky to have the opportunity to lay his hands on the money instead of transfering it to children's hospital!"?
IMO a great percentage of the richest people in the world are either the ones I described or their genetic relatives, and unfortunately the study doesn't cover this at all.
While that is true how do you ascend to those types of positions? ~

The first option is with a revolution, by simply killing those in power and taking over their places. The second option is by cheating on elections: either directly, registering non-qualified voters and destroying votes of opposition, or indirectly, deluding voters with false promises. And voila, you are in charge. Smiley


~ And let me tell you as somebody who is somewhat smart and could get a university degree (completed 2 full years 3.0 GPA) I couldn't stand a minute of it. Putting in that effort and time for 4 years+ is extremely difficult and the people who do that, deserve a chance at better money imo. ~

I absolutely agree with you on this. And exactly that's why I hate when people say that if someone is paid better than you, you, who have put so much energy and effort into study, then that person is either smarter than you or more lucky than you. There are other options. For example, that person could be born in a rich family or marry a girl from a rich family. I can't call such a person neither smart, nor lucky. That was my point.
legendary
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I would have to agree with this. Most of the school dropouts end up being a millionaire or even billionaires. Steve Jobs of Apple, Bill Gates of Microsoft, Mark Zuckerberg of Facebook and Michael Dell of Dell laptops to name a few. These are all dropouts who managed to become rich despite not having to finish school.

Not finishing school or university because you have a better opportunity is not only a sign of talent, but a sign of one of their ability to take risks and prioritise their time.
full member
Activity: 190
Merit: 106
Becoming rich takes a combination of luck, skill and patience. Because being intellegent sometimes their praised their own smartness, also they only see more faults in the world. Intellegence and talents is a good combination. But in reality being talented they're just getting rich rather than intellegence person. And it depends on how you handle your situation when it comes in spending.
full member
Activity: 406
Merit: 102
I would have to agree with this. Most of the school dropouts end up being a millionaire or even billionaires. Steve Jobs of Apple, Bill Gates of Microsoft, Mark Zuckerberg of Facebook and Michael Dell of Dell laptops to name a few. These are all dropouts who managed to become rich despite not having to finish school.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
It is true that luck plays a big role in our lives. For example you gotta be lucky if you invested in Bitcoin and it goes up but it won't be that much the luck's role if you are the one manipulating its price to go up Cheesy
It is just a factor for a success or loss. Mainly this have not huge effect on your trading and investing. These two things need skills and experience, plus hard efforts as input and true concern for getting much in return. Whiteout these you will not be succeeded in your race and ultimately losses will be waving at you. Better is to work on your skills, just leave luck while considering trade.
full member
Activity: 233
Merit: 106
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Quote
“It is evident that the most successful individuals are also the luckiest ones,” they say. “And the less successful individuals are also the unluckiest ones.”

This is true, but only to an extent. For example there are individuals who have become rich by robbing their own people while holding positions of ministers, lawmakers and other governmental officials. Almost all of them are very rich although they are definitely not very talented. But can we call them "the luckiest ones"? I don't think so. Can you imagine saying "He was so lucky to have the opportunity to lay his hands on the money instead of transfering it to children's hospital!"?
IMO a great percentage of the richest people in the world are either the ones I described or their genetic relatives, and unfortunately the study doesn't cover this at all.
While that is true how do you ascend to those types of positions? Sure there is some luck involved in getting into the right university, or having the right family member be a part of a certain social circle, but at the end of the day you need smarts and credentials. And let me tell you as somebody who is somewhat smart and could get a university degree (completed 2 full years 3.0 GPA) I couldn't stand a minute of it. Putting in that effort and time for 4 years+ is extremely difficult and the people who do that, deserve a chance at better money imo. Everything in life has some degree of luck though, and everyone singular action in life has some risk, you just gotta make do with what is in front of you and hope for the best.
full member
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legendary
Activity: 3374
Merit: 2198
I stand with Ukraine.
Quote
“It is evident that the most successful individuals are also the luckiest ones,” they say. “And the less successful individuals are also the unluckiest ones.”

This is true, but only to an extent. For example there are individuals who have become rich by robbing their own people while holding positions of ministers, lawmakers and other governmental officials. Almost all of them are very rich although they are definitely not very talented. But can we call them "the luckiest ones"? I don't think so. Can you imagine saying "He was so lucky to have the opportunity to lay his hands on the money instead of transfering it to children's hospital!"?
IMO a great percentage of the richest people in the world are either the ones I described or their genetic relatives, and unfortunately the study doesn't cover this at all.
hero member
Activity: 1065
Merit: 510
I had time to think about the lives of people who can be successful around me, in terms of education when it is not too high and the mindset is also ordinary, but why they can be successful? I have the conclusion that success is not just from a person's genius but from a fortune that has been destined to be successful and perhaps their courage is also a major factor for continuing to try when it fails, they are not unyielding.
I strongly agree with your opinion, that the fate of someone already there who determines. Everyone has their own way of life and their destiny has been determined by God. But to achieve that success is within ourselves, to be able to achieve it with the courage to face all the trials, because everyone must have experienced failure. In order to rise from failure we must keep trying to realize the expectations we want, because failure is not the end of everything, but failure is a delayed success.
But other people do easily give up when they do experience failure which it is really a sad thing.This would totally block us out into the things we are wishing or targeting it out.Ive seen in reality that even those normal people who do have average way of living but still striving to reach out goals without knowing the word surrender do reach out on having a financial freedom compared to those who do have the intellect but do lacks of actions.It do really differs.
sr. member
Activity: 1792
Merit: 264
I had time to think about the lives of people who can be successful around me, in terms of education when it is not too high and the mindset is also ordinary, but why they can be successful? I have the conclusion that success is not just from a person's genius but from a fortune that has been destined to be successful and perhaps their courage is also a major factor for continuing to try when it fails, they are not unyielding.
I strongly agree with your opinion, that the fate of someone already there who determines. Everyone has their own way of life and their destiny has been determined by God. But to achieve that success is within ourselves, to be able to achieve it with the courage to face all the trials, because everyone must have experienced failure. In order to rise from failure we must keep trying to realize the expectations we want, because failure is not the end of everything, but failure is a delayed success.
sr. member
Activity: 532
Merit: 327
It is true that luck plays a big role in our lives. For example you gotta be lucky if you invested in Bitcoin and it goes up but it won't be that much the luck's role if you are the one manipulating its price to go up Cheesy
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 515
Quote
But there is a problem with this idea: while wealth distribution follows a power law, the distribution of human skills generally follows a normal distribution that is symmetric about an average value. For example, intelligence, as measured by IQ tests, follows this pattern. Average IQ is 100, but nobody has an IQ of 1,000 or 10,000.

The same is true of effort, as measured by hours worked. Some people work more hours than average and some work less, but nobody works a billion times more hours than anybody else.

These two aspects are particularly troubling about the methodology and logic of the argument. The logical argument made is that nobody should naturally have thousands of times more wealth than anyone else because nobody can have an IQ thousands of times higher than average or be thousands of times taller. First, there's no logical link there. Second, where the author faults nobody having an IQ of 10,000, it ignores the fact that an IQ can't even be 10,000, which is why nobody has achieved it. Similarly, nobody can be as tall as a skyscraper because it isn't physically possible. By using as a model the fact that these things don't happen as a guidepost for what should happen in wealth distribution naturally, it seems the author is comparing two things that can't be compared, and attributing the difference to luck.

Bill Gates isn't rich because he was the smartest man in the world, or because he was lucky. He's rich because he built a product that hundreds of millions of people found useful and paid for. The main driver of wealth isn't luck or intelligence (although either isn't going to hurt), the determining factor is market utility of what you do.

I wouldn't write off luck completely here. I don't deny that it is market utility of what you do that determines your success in the market at the end of the day but it is not very much different from saying that your wealth is determined by how much money you have or earn. Essentially, what you say is sort of tautology. Many people try to get that market utility but only few succeed. Huge corporations are spending billions on R&D to get there too. So how is it fundamentally different from the same people trying to become rich and wealthy? You still need luck to hit the jackpot with that elusive utility. You are simply revealing the specific mechanism or route by which luck makes wealth these days.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 147
Chances do really come and go and somehow, I do agree that intelligence and talent are not enough to become rich in this world. Chances however, plays a big role in determining your fate, but you have to consider the fact that there are certain factors that led you to that opportunity or a chance of a lifetime. I believe strategy beats intelligence at any time of the day. Let's just say someone who did not study for a test gets a grade as high as the one who did study, that's what you call a person who is strategic. Since he can adapt to any situation and get through anything, obtaining chances for him would be easy. Just remember that if there's a chance awaiting upon you, grab it before it's long gone. You wouldn't want to miss out on an opportunity that is bound to change your life for the better. 
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