Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 1718. (Read 3049501 times)

It's September, so I guess you guys already have a working prototype

I'd like to point out the increasing difficulty as main factor in regards to the difference in value/price.

u know. two months is a lot these days.

KNC Jupiter for 5000 is mid November Delivery, not October, but will be closer to 500 gh/s if you've been paying attention, Cointerra has pretty much admitted they will be late as well, but yes, if you calc the diff doubling every month like it has of late, you will see plenty of justification.

- CoinTera - 2000G#, 2U sized miner for $14,000 - by, Dec 2013

- KNCMiner - 400G# miner for $5000 (2000G# for $25,000) - by, Oct 2013

Hi kncminer, how would you justify $14K vs. $25K price difference?! 2 months of lead time?

Radical, ssh access!, woohooooo
not just a miner really.  So-Dimm - Linux with Web GUI & ssh access
Ethernet AND USB with updatable & expandable innards
Certainly the most advanced miners ever offered
nice
Makes other brands look like toys IMHO.

A couple of weeks ago I asked KnC about their status with Cgminer. They replied pretty fast and here's what they said:

Hi Timmers, sounds like you might be in the UK (sorry if I've made a gross assumption here). I've been wondering this for a while and you (or others) may have an accountancy background and may be able to advise. My understanding is that if you're a VAT registered business in the UK then you can buy items for the business without VAT (or claim it back in your quarterly VAT return), but you are then obliged to collect VAT at 20% for any goods or services that you provide to your customers (unless they are also a VAT registered businesses) and fill in a quarterly VAT return for HMRC where all of this is calculated.

I presume that if you are buying mining hardware for your business and your business does not use this to provide a VATable service to a customer then you presumably don't need to pay any VAT (which I think is what you're saying above). You would just need to pay tax on the income that the miner generates for the business. The only danger with this setup might be that if the business is not charging anybody VAT (so not providing any other goods or services) then HMRC might revoke the business' VAT-registered status. If you were to buy a miner without VAT and then sell it to a customer then it's clear that you would need to charge the customer VAT on the price of the miner. Here's the difficult one - if your business buys a miner and then sells shares in that miner (or shares in what it produces depending on your outlook) to customers then do you need to collect VAT on top of the price of the shares that you sell? If the miner technically remains the property of the business, but shares are sold that return a proportion of the miner's output (perhaps with some hosting fee applied by the business) then what part of that transaction is VAT applicable to (is the hosting fee the service)? Any thoughts anybody?

(By the way, when I say "you" above I'm talking about a hypothetical business by the way, not you or anybody else personally)

Not what I said.

Can't answer the question.  This was just a stab at explaining how it might be done to someone apparently with even less information than I.

VAT should be included in the price on anything(that has VAT added, witch is pretty much everything in Sweden) that you buy from a company based in Sweden.
The VAT that is added is 25% on these type of things in Sweden, so the price without VAT is 80% of what you paid, for example on the    6 995 usd miner it's price is in reallity 5596 USD and has 1399 USD added in VAT(Moms). If your in another EU country thats all you have to pay. Theoretically if your in another country with lower VAT you may be able to get the Swedish VAT you paid for the miner refunded if you collect the miner in person in Sweden and manage to convince the costums it's a tourist mergendise you bought, but that is a bit far fetched i guess, anyway you will then get a refund on the Swedish VAT (1399 USD) and instead pay (your lower) VAT in your own country if you succed with that....

or to KNC. . .. lol. I kid. I kid

Simple answer. Greed. They put on their greed goggles and see only a huge profit. All sense is lost.
Same type of person who sends money to claim their Nigerian gold mine. lol

People does not think!

WHY should anyone sell a device which are generating $1600+ per month for about $ 400

make sense, doesn´t it?

But on the bright side, it does mean that there is a residual market for a miner even after the well-informed have calculated that its economic life is over. Someone will want it - and that could make the difference making your money back or not.

Yeah, sad really. Goes to show you that what you're used to in the way of knowledge isn't what's going on elsewhere. The sad part is that although we know that is a con, it's not provable. Some poor bugger is going to think exactly what you said

HAHAHA holy misleading.

http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator

> 5GH/s =

per Day   ฿0.03   $3.74
per Week   ฿0.20   $26.19
per Month   ฿0.88   $113.75

Hardly $1669 a month. And that's at current rates. By the time the guy gets the miner, could be months from now, it'll be worthless. LOL everyone who is bidding is just clueless at how bitcoin works. They're probably thinking 'ohshiii a money printing machine. I'm set for life. I can finally retire!'. lol.

A lot of people look at the calcs and see naff figures and worry that maybe they'll end up with a rig that's late and not going to return their investment.

I bet those same people would feel much worse if they instead had a PRE order BFL 5GHz rig instead? Not delivered? Well this may surprise you , and make you wonder what your KnC rig might attract in , say, December? In hand?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ButterflyLabs-BitForce-5-GH-s-Jalapeno-Btc-Bitcoin-Miner-Mining-SC-ASIC-Preorder-/171117996618?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27d76d6a4a

People seem to be keen to pay more than RRP for the damned thing despite all we know. Maybe there's going to be some decent value in the KnC rigs for longer than we imagined?

You pay VAT on things you PURCHASE, not on things you create. Not all things you purchase attract VAT either, gold and currency for example don't among many other items.
VAT is a way for government to collect tax from the consumer by using businesses to do this. VAT is also 20% not 23% here. If you can claim the VAT back, you can more than likely claim the computer equipment as a capital business expense and get some of the cost back from the tax man too.

Looked at that thread, thanks for the laughs