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Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 1745. (Read 3050071 times)

full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
August 30, 2013, 04:42:55 PM
...
Microsoft is only concerned with time to market and profits you cannot even use them as a valid example. Not to mention the logistics are totally different when patching and updating physical equipment vs software after it shipped. and if you are referring to CGminer, you may want to reread the previous posts considering they have successfully tested it with the FPGA and considering the ASIC is essentially suppose to be a copy off of it, things should go smoothly assuming the chip works.

The chips seldom "work" or "don't work."  The chips can draw way too much power (BFL), not take clock@voltage (everyone else), have noise issues, dead cores, etc., etc. -FPGAs are pretty much useless for debugging boards meant for ASICs.  Nothing -- from power requirements to clockspeed -- is the same.  It's no better than testing a race car with a lawnmower engine.  You will see routing mistakes, but that sort of thing is usually caught before testing Smiley

As far as Microsoft, i used them as a counterexample to the claim that establishing good standards & practices eliminates the need to test & debug.  That claim is simply absurd -- testing & debugging are an integral part of coding.
4realz.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
August 30, 2013, 04:22:37 PM
Don't recommend this piece of crap. It's not even bronze rated. You are going to spend 1000's on a miner and buy some unrated power supply???

For just a fraction more, you can buy this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-TX850-Enthusiast-Series-Bronze/dp/B004O0P9XK

Better quality, better brand, has bare minimum 80 plus bronze rating, better company to deal with - just better all round.

Absolutely. Don't buy a cheap crap PSU for this.  An expensive PSU, high-efficiency PSU will pay for itself in electricity prices within a month, especially if your cheapo unit blows up.
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1000
- - -Caveat Aleo- - -
August 30, 2013, 04:21:31 PM
Has KNC ever mentioned what the ideal power supply for a mercury?


https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-31
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1018
HoneybadgerOfMoney.com Weed4bitcoin.com
August 30, 2013, 04:19:11 PM
Has KNC ever mentioned what the ideal power supply for a mercury?
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
August 30, 2013, 04:17:34 PM
them talking about +30%

is that hashing rate ? or wishful thinking ?
It could be hash rate.I remember the offerings before were @ 175 for Saturns and @ 350 for Jupiters.....unless they mean these prior numbers.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
August 30, 2013, 04:14:23 PM
I'm a software guy but the principle is the same.  You don't put two complex components together for the first time and expect to ship them two weeks later.   If it works, it's a fucking miracle.  This is why you test things.

KNC has time to test, but no time to fix anything but the most trivial of problems.  

That's assuming they don't already have the chips.  I don't know why they wouldn't say so, if they did.

I'm a software guy.  You absolutely can put two complex components together and have them work the first time if you actually know what you're doing and aren't just some hack, and both are well designed in the first place.

One way to do it is to have a well defined interface and a simplified reference (or 'mock') implementation of that interface that you can use to test against while working on the other - in KnC's case they have an FPGA implementation that has the same interface as their chip, so they can test their board/cooling/etc.  And of course they can simulate their chips, and full circuits, to ensure they work as well.

Software world is full of people who don't know what they're doing. It's not a 'miracle' if software works properly the first time without much debugging, it just means it was done properly and carefully to begin with.


Have you ever done it?  I thought not.  Almost nobody has, because it's ridiculously difficult.

Have I done what?  Stick two "complex" pieces of software together without "much" debugging? Of course I have. Of course, it depends on what you mean by "complex". I mean, I don't usually write software made out of two components, typically it will have hundreds or thousands of components, arranged in a semi-hierarchical way, with each component interacting with several. In the vast majority of cases the components work together fine with no debugging.

How many lines of code would a component need to have to be "complex" in your mind?

Anyway, the thing you don't seem to understand is that you have the opportunity to do debugging with an FPGA or in a simulator before finalizing your ASIC and board.

To use a software analogy, it would be like writing and debugging two components and getting them to work on your x86 desktop machine and then having them not work on an ARM based android phone.  Even though the physical chip is different, code that works on one CPU should still work on another, as long as the compilers you're using for both don't contain bugs of their own.

Quote
"without much debugging" LOL.  Even you can't bring yourself to say "with no debugging at all".  

Right but as I said, KnC can debug their board using FPGAs and debug their ASIC using FPGA models.
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1011
August 30, 2013, 04:06:08 PM
them talking about +30%

is that hashing rate ? or wishful thinking ?

30 % of what?
legendary
Activity: 2338
Merit: 2106
August 30, 2013, 04:05:01 PM
them talking about +30%

is that hashing rate ? or wishful thinking

edit: "Secondly with regards to CGminer, and it’s opensource protocol we’ve been able to configure our device unassisted and made a greater than 30% performance increase using the underlying code, for which we would like to thank both kano and ckolivas with their outstanding contribution to the community."
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
August 30, 2013, 03:47:55 PM
Don't recommend this piece of crap. It's not even bronze rated. You are going to spend 1000's on a miner and buy some unrated power supply???

For just a fraction more, you can buy this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-TX850-Enthusiast-Series-Bronze/dp/B004O0P9XK

Better quality, better brand, has bare minimum 80 plus bronze rating, better company to deal with - just better all round.
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1000
August 30, 2013, 03:47:03 PM
Yay! they are not a scam at least. This means they'll eventually ship a product.

fyi: we reached that stage 1.2 month before we shipped. Let's see how they handle their remainder issues.

It took BitSyncom 1.2 months to go from first getting a chip hashing to shipping out product.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
August 30, 2013, 03:38:27 PM
I'm a software guy but the principle is the same.  You don't put two complex components together for the first time and expect to ship them two weeks later.   If it works, it's a fucking miracle.  This is why you test things.

KNC has time to test, but no time to fix anything but the most trivial of problems.  

That's assuming they don't already have the chips.  I don't know why they wouldn't say so, if they did.

I'm a software guy.  You absolutely can put two complex components together and have them work the first time if you actually know what you're doing and aren't just some hack, and both are well designed in the first place. ...

And that's why hacks like Microsoft just roll out new Windows versions without betas and previews.  You got a point there, champ...
Edit: Flash*flash*flash* OMG SARCASM TAG!!11!


Microsoft is only concerned with time to market and profits you cannot even use them as a valid example. Not to mention the logistics are totally different when patching and updating physical equipment vs software after it shipped. and if you are referring to CGminer, you may want to reread the previous posts considering they have successfully tested it with the FPGA and considering the ASIC is essentially suppose to be a copy off of it, things should go smoothly assuming the chip works.
full member
Activity: 236
Merit: 100
August 30, 2013, 03:32:44 PM
I'm a software guy but the principle is the same.  You don't put two complex components together for the first time and expect to ship them two weeks later.   If it works, it's a fucking miracle.  This is why you test things.

KNC has time to test, but no time to fix anything but the most trivial of problems.  

That's assuming they don't already have the chips.  I don't know why they wouldn't say so, if they did.

I'm a software guy.  You absolutely can put two complex components together and have them work the first time if you actually know what you're doing and aren't just some hack, and both are well designed in the first place.

One way to do it is to have a well defined interface and a simplified reference (or 'mock') implementation of that interface that you can use to test against while working on the other - in KnC's case they have an FPGA implementation that has the same interface as their chip, so they can test their board/cooling/etc.  And of course they can simulate their chips, and full circuits, to ensure they work as well.

Software world is full of people who don't know what they're doing. It's not a 'miracle' if software works properly the first time without much debugging, it just means it was done properly and carefully to begin with.


Have you ever done it?  I thought not.  Almost nobody has, because it's ridiculously difficult.

"without much debugging" LOL.  Even you can't bring yourself to say "with no debugging at all".  That's what KNC is counting on - they basically can't debug the chip OR the board - they are stuck with whatever they get the first time.  Again, I'm not a hardware guy, maybe the interface between the chip and board is simple enough that an fpga mockup is sufficient.

But if this were a software protocol (something like HTTP), designing the protocol, client and server at the same time, but never testing the real client and server together until two weeks before shipping?  That would certainly end in disaster without *extreme* planning.   It would be a very different kind of software project than most.
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 501
August 30, 2013, 03:30:54 PM
wow look at that glowing yellow ignore on crumbs. hahaha

I can't see it, I have him on ignore Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
Hell?
August 30, 2013, 03:29:54 PM
wow look at that glowing yellow ignore on crumbs. hahaha
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
August 30, 2013, 03:27:49 PM
I'm a software guy but the principle is the same.  You don't put two complex components together for the first time and expect to ship them two weeks later.   If it works, it's a fucking miracle.  This is why you test things.

KNC has time to test, but no time to fix anything but the most trivial of problems.  

That's assuming they don't already have the chips.  I don't know why they wouldn't say so, if they did.

I'm a software guy.  You absolutely can put two complex components together and have them work the first time if you actually know what you're doing and aren't just some hack, and both are well designed in the first place. ...

And that's why hacks like Microsoft just roll out new Windows versions without betas and previews.  You got a point there, champ...
Edit: Flash*flash*flash* OMG SARCASM TAG!!11!
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
August 30, 2013, 03:11:37 PM
I'm a software guy but the principle is the same.  You don't put two complex components together for the first time and expect to ship them two weeks later.   If it works, it's a fucking miracle.  This is why you test things.

KNC has time to test, but no time to fix anything but the most trivial of problems.  

That's assuming they don't already have the chips.  I don't know why they wouldn't say so, if they did.

I'm a software guy.  You absolutely can put two complex components together and have them work the first time if you actually know what you're doing and aren't just some hack, and both are well designed in the first place.

One way to do it is to have a well defined interface and a simplified reference (or 'mock') implementation of that interface that you can use to test against while working on the other - in KnC's case they have an FPGA implementation that has the same interface as their chip, so they can test their board/cooling/etc.  And of course they can simulate their chips, and full circuits, to ensure they work as well.

Software world is full of people who don't know what they're doing. It's not a 'miracle' if software works properly the first time without much debugging, it just means it was done properly and carefully to begin with.
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
August 30, 2013, 03:09:52 PM
Yup..

I was actually using that quote to compare KNC to BFL in that BLF waited until they tripped until they figured things out while KNC is paving their road for no issues..  but that seems to be lost on the low moronic IQ of these trolls, or probably hit to close to the truth for them to bear

QQ trolls...  just cry

sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
Hell?
August 30, 2013, 03:05:50 PM
Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them.

- Albert Einstein on seeing KNC's design approach

There should be a moderator.
I will ask teymos, maybe i will clean up there.

Useless posts, huge fonts, images and irrelevant videos.

Because your comments are sooo useful.

got deleted..  there seems to be a bias vs certain pro-comments on this forum and also a few trolls have moderator friends since as you know this thread is rife with anti-knc bullshit everywhere and never gets deleted

ditto, got deleted too. didnt think anything i said was even bad either. oh well.
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
August 30, 2013, 03:03:44 PM
Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them.

- Albert Einstein on seeing KNC's design approach

There should be a moderator.
I will ask teymos, maybe i will clean up there.

Useless posts, huge fonts, images and irrelevant videos.

Because your comments are sooo useful.

got deleted..  there seems to be a bias vs certain pro-comments on this forum and also a few trolls have moderator friends since as you know this thread is rife with anti-knc bullshit everywhere and never gets deleted
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
August 30, 2013, 02:56:26 PM
Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them.

- Albert Einstein on seeing KNC's design approach

There should be a moderator.
I will ask teymos, maybe i will clean up there.

Useless posts, huge fonts, images and irrelevant videos.

Because your comments are sooo useful.
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