Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 1903. (Read 3049501 times)

Whats there to explain? Two asic makers talking/meeting at a bitcoin conference. We've seen it before.

https://i.imgur.com/m36qE00.jpg

KnC, please explain.

You are getting closer to my point.   If this is a complete design (and not something more akin to eASIC where you just design one layer), you would typically get on a shuttle (which would mean you would be saying "shuttle run is schedule and we should get sample chips to test and optimize our design in xx days).   Then you would spend the $800,000 to tape out a 28nm mask......
who knows?   That is what I am saying.   we do not know.    seems credible but who are the "competitors" that are scared if they know their progress?   If I am producing ASICs it does not matter when these guys ship.    It just changes the difficulty.   It does not help my chips come quicker....

yдaлocь выяcнить, чтo y Джoшa ecть aккayнт в фeйcбyкe и oн тaм пишeт вcякoe.
нaпpимep вo втopник зaпocтил фoткy c кaким-тo xмыpeм, кoтopoгo oн нaзывaeт "нaйc гaй". Джoш cпpaвa.

интepьep cтpaшный

If an MPW batch had been made, then we would have seen a working prototype well before the production wafer run was ordered, that clearly hasn't happened unless they choose to keep it a tight lipped secret, so one would assume it wont and the first sample will be from the production wafers.

You are getting closer to my point.   If this is a complete design (and not something more akin to eASIC where you just design one layer), you would typically get on a shuttle (which would mean you would be saying "shuttle run is schedule and we should get sample chips to test and optimize our design in xx days).   Then you would spend the $800,000 to tape out a 28nm mask......
who knows?   That is what I am saying.   we do not know.    seems credible but who are the "competitors" that are scared if they know their progress?   If I am producing ASICs it does not matter when these guys ship.    It just changes the difficulty.   It does not help my chips come quicker....

  seems credible but who are the "competitors" that are scared if they know their progress?   If I am producing ASICs it does not matter when these guys ship.

Imagine they've got chips ordered and PCBs ordered, I assume they'll receive sample chips early on and sample PCBs--perhaps it's not long before they'll have a couple Jupiters to work on in actuality. We know they promised a Jupiter to that couple doing the documentary on living on Bitcoin for a month was it, and they've probably got one for developing the software and whatnot. So, may not be long now before we see a working unit in actuality, before the others are put together even. Is that not so? Are they likely to receive sample chips or not?

Imagine they've got chips ordered and PCBs ordered, I assume they'll receive sample chips early on and sample PCBs--perhaps it's not long before they'll have a couple Jupiters to work on in actuality. We know they promised a Jupiter to that couple doing the documentary on living on Bitcoin for a month was it, and they've probably got one for developing the software and whatnot. So, may not be long now before we see a working unit in actuality, before the others are put together even. Is that not so? Are they likely to receive sample chips or not?

That's actually a reasonable point. The truth is we can not be certain that they did tape out, but we estimate based on everything else that happened so far with this company and the backgrounds of the people involved that there is a high probability they are telling the truth. You might be inclined to weigh things differently, but your point is valid - until we see a video of a Jupiter hashing that is (how long KNC? ).

Not to nit pick, but how do you KNOW they have taped out.   I do not know they have taped out.   I have READ a post from KNC that they taped out but then again I read a post last November from Inaba saying that he had just sent a prototype to the lab for certification testing and we all (now) know that is not true.

Will KNC allow individuals who purchased their hardware but are not utilizing the hosting service from byteminr to participate in their mining pool?  

If not, how come?  (ie.  is it a programming nightmare to only allow KNC machines to access the pool and reject other mining hardware?)

will be there a trade in advantage for the 2nd generation of your products starting to ship in March 2014?

Sorry, as somebody who already executed the one or the other 65nm/40nm/28nm tape-out including direct contact to foundries, I like to mention that BFL and its design enablement partner for layout generation/sign off (Chronicle Tech?) were for sure not responsible for the OPC.

OPC is a task of the mask preparation, which is normally done at the mask house related to the foundry before wafer manufacturing can start. The responsibility for this step has the foundry, which was Globalfoundries in case of BFL.

An order of magnitude? Do you mean 10x? When I remember right, BFL targeted below 1 J/GH and reached 3.2 J/GH.  Should be 3.2x.

Anyway, a missed OPC would result in a very bad yield, maybe even in no yield. The influence at power should not be that strong.

From my point of view, the reason for missing the power target, was the design methodology of the BFL ASIC. It's impossible to run detailed accurate power analysis (e.g. for calculation of a complete hash) during design phase for this kind of design sizes, if you do a full-custom design (hand layout). The reason for this is, that these kind of analysis have to be done at transistor level in case of a full-custom design. I doubt that there is a spice simulator, which can simulate a complete pipelined hash core. If there is one, such a power analysis would take weeks.

So I assume, that BFL did power analysis only for small parts of one hash core and than they tried to scale it up (if they did at all). With respect to power consumption they were a kind of blind till late in the implementation phase. I also think that they realized that they have a problem shortly before tape-out. That was the reason why they change the package from a simple wire-bond QFN to a flip-chip BGA late in 2012 to be able to handle the much higher power consumption.

It's impossible to run detailed accurate power analysis (e.g. for calculation of a complete hash) during design phase for this kind of design sizes, if you do a full-custom design (hand layout).

Has anyone reached any IMPORTANT conclusion yet? Has anyone proven anything?

I am on page #42 (and still reading) but this will take much time to end this topic.

I am thinking of investing like $10K on their miners but I am a bit afraid.

Worth or not? Real and works as should be? Deliver on time?

Not to nit pick, but how do you KNOW they have taped out.   I do not know they have taped out.   I have READ a post from KNC that they taped out but then again I read a post last November from Inaba saying that he had just sent a prototype to the lab for certification testing and we all (now) know that is not true.

Not to nit pick, but how do you KNOW they have taped out.   I do not know they have taped out.   I have READ a post from KNC that they taped out but then again I read a post last November from Inaba saying that he had just sent a prototype to the lab for certification testing and we all (now) know that is not true.

Probably. Def real, don't know the rest, but have taped out.