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Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com - page 2087. (Read 3049521 times)

KS
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
So we are not likely to see their Mars mining Litecoin and they are going to go ahead with the Mars for bitcoin at $2,795 for 6 gh/s. Probably no one will buy.. 22 Asic Chip for 6.2gh/s is only $154 plus another $100 is only $254. and probably the asic chip will arrived sooner than the Mars FPGA. Grin


Depends on timing. ASICs are still not shipping in volume and KnC offers a "price protection" by shaving 2K off of the Jupiter if you bought a Mars.

If you'd buy a 6GH/s GPU farm now, it would cost you more than the Mars. FPGAs still more.

It all depends how fast they can execute. I don't mind paying that price *now*. If BFL ever ships, the 6GH/s won't be interesting, but I hope KnC will be ready with the Jupiter's 250GH/s that I could buy for 5K USD.
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
( " As you can see above, KnC does not have the intent to revise the current Mars pre-order devices to be capable LTC miners in the interest of developing rapidly and avoiding delays. Any FPGA LTC miner they would offer would be a new product to come down the road. That is to say, if nothing has changed since I received these replies. If I'm wrong, I'd hope & expect Sam will correct me here.

Despite the lack of LTC support for the FPGA, my attitude towards KnC has become increasingly optimistic. Granted they still have much to show, I empathize with their positions in what they're trying to accomplish." )

So we are not likely to see their Mars mining Litecoin and they are going to go ahead with the Mars for bitcoin at $2,795 for 6 gh/s. Probably no one will buy.. 22 Asic Chip for 6.2gh/s is only $154 plus another $100 is only $254. and probably the asic chip will arrived sooner than the Mars FPGA. Grin
KS
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
So, like I said, it's a small operation with low capital and really only K and C at the helm (spouses and siblings don't count Smiley).

Company is barely a year old and hasn't filed an annual report yet for 2012 (maybe they can merge the first year with the second one as in some other countries, I don't know).

So the muscle will really come from ORSoC...

Is that not stating the bleeding obvious? I mean they're forming now to create a variety of miners (and some other things), so obv no annual report, and the reason they partnered with ORSoC is self explanatory.

A&S are systems architects / software engineers though.

All have personal interests in Bitcoin and mined prior themselves.

Yes and no. It means they don't have the financial strength to NOT have pre-paying customers, which makes them a riskier investment.

I have not problem with ppl starting a company in their garage, but, from what I understand of ASIC development, you need a certain level of funding that they don't have.

Of course, I'm not privvy to their agreement with ORSoC, but I doubt ORSoC will invest too much in the project. I would think they accepted to put their name on this project in return for a share of the retail profits (and so they're not just the ODM), but I also expect them to limit their investment to "consulting" and that KnC will need to fund the BOM.

Speculation, speculation.

Shouldn't be any speculation.

They said they need pre-orders, but can develop an FPGA without them, so will sell the FPGA to raise initial investment so they can develop the ASICs. The initial investors get first orders of the ASIC monster and $2k off the $7k price for being early adopters that supported them.

ORSoC have the means to produce prototypes in house, so it should be hard to demonstrate a working model, which is what everybody wants for confidence.

My suggestion is just that if you're going to build a 6gh/s FPGA, it may as well be for Litecoin mining, as it will have such a minimal finite life and hardly reach ROI mining Bitcoin, whereas for Litecoin, it gives them the credibility to be the first to develop this whilst significantly better ROI for their early adopters.

Like I said, ORSoC brings the muscle, but there is no guarantee that there will be a shipping product after the engineering samples.

I'd be much happier if ORSoC did the selling/distribution.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
So, like I said, it's a small operation with low capital and really only K and C at the helm (spouses and siblings don't count Smiley).

Company is barely a year old and hasn't filed an annual report yet for 2012 (maybe they can merge the first year with the second one as in some other countries, I don't know).

So the muscle will really come from ORSoC...

Is that not stating the bleeding obvious? I mean they're forming now to create a variety of miners (and some other things), so obv no annual report, and the reason they partnered with ORSoC is self explanatory.

A&S are systems architects / software engineers though.

All have personal interests in Bitcoin and mined prior themselves.

Yes and no. It means they don't have the financial strength to NOT have pre-paying customers, which makes them a riskier investment.

I have not problem with ppl starting a company in their garage, but, from what I understand of ASIC development, you need a certain level of funding that they don't have.

Of course, I'm not privvy to their agreement with ORSoC, but I doubt ORSoC will invest too much in the project. I would think they accepted to put their name on this project in return for a share of the retail profits (and so they're not just the ODM), but I also expect them to limit their investment to "consulting" and that KnC will need to fund the BOM.

Speculation, speculation.

Shouldn't be any speculation.

They said they need pre-orders, but can develop an FPGA without them, so will sell the FPGA to raise initial investment so they can develop the ASICs. The initial investors get first orders of the ASIC monster and $2k off the $7k price for being early adopters that supported them.

ORSoC have the means to produce prototypes in house, so it should be hard to demonstrate a working model, which is what everybody wants for confidence.

My suggestion is just that if you're going to build a 6gh/s FPGA, it may as well be for Litecoin mining, as it will have such a minimal finite life and hardly reach ROI mining Bitcoin, whereas for Litecoin, it gives them the credibility to be the first to develop this whilst significantly better ROI for their early adopters.
KS
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
So, like I said, it's a small operation with low capital and really only K and C at the helm (spouses and siblings don't count Smiley).

Company is barely a year old and hasn't filed an annual report yet for 2012 (maybe they can merge the first year with the second one as in some other countries, I don't know).

So the muscle will really come from ORSoC...

Is that not stating the bleeding obvious? I mean they're forming now to create a variety of miners (and some other things), so obv no annual report, and the reason they partnered with ORSoC is self explanatory.

A&S are systems architects / software engineers though.

All have personal interests in Bitcoin and mined prior themselves.

Yes and no. It means they don't have the financial strength to NOT have pre-paying customers, which makes them a riskier investment.

I have not problem with ppl starting a company in their garage, but, from what I understand of ASIC development, you need a certain level of funding that they don't have.

Of course, I'm not privvy to their agreement with ORSoC, but I doubt ORSoC will invest too much in the project. I would think they accepted to put their name on this project in return for a share of the retail profits (and so they're not just the ODM), but I also expect them to limit their investment to "consulting" and that KnC will need to fund the BOM.

Speculation, speculation.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
So, like I said, it's a small operation with low capital and really only K and C at the helm (spouses and siblings don't count Smiley).

Company is barely a year old and hasn't filed an annual report yet for 2012 (maybe they can merge the first year with the second one as in some other countries, I don't know).

So the muscle will really come from ORSoC...

Is that not stating the bleeding obvious? I mean they're forming now to create a variety of miners (and some other things), so obv no annual report, and the reason they partnered with ORSoC is self explanatory.

A&S are systems architects / software engineers though.

All have personal interests in Bitcoin and mined prior themselves.
KS
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
So, like I said, it's a small operation with low capital and really only K and C at the helm (spouses and siblings don't count Smiley).

Company is barely a year old and hasn't filed an annual report yet for 2012 (maybe they can merge the first year with the second one as in some other countries, I don't know).

So the muscle will really come from ORSoC...

There is also a change in the certificate of registration made on April 18th, 2013 but I'm not sure what. Kncminer is a secondary name (ie. like "doing business as").

Too soon to be really interesting...
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
Haha most of those are in English, if that helps? Wink

There's your SE VAT, direct fro the horse's mouth Smiley (ok, maybe 30 pages late...)

http://www.verksamt.se/portal/en_GB/web/international/running/vat

Great find!
KS
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Haha most of those are in English, if that helps? Wink

There's your SE VAT, direct fro the horse's mouth Smiley (ok, maybe 30 pages late...)

http://www.verksamt.se/portal/en_GB/web/international/running/vat
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
Quote
Water cooled setup.

This is the single reason I doubt the company so far. It sounds like a way to get people excited but is expensive and serves no real advantage cost-efficiency wise.

It also introduces complexity and additional failure points as well as adding additional maintenance for the customer. From a business standpoint, I cannot see this as a logical choice.

They are modders and are clocking the chips for better performance. When I queried about clocking possibilities with water cooling they said they were already doing this stock, it's feasible owners could crank more, but it would invalidate the warranty as they will take it as far as they deem comfortable.

At the end of the day ORSoC will determine yes that's possible, or no that's not.

Pretty sure it would have been shot down in flames at the suggestion if it wasn't.
sr. member
Activity: 471
Merit: 256
Quote
Water cooled setup.

This is the single reason I doubt the company so far. It sounds like a way to get people excited but is expensive and serves no real advantage cost-efficiency wise.

It also introduces complexity and additional failure points as well as adding additional maintenance for the customer. From a business standpoint, I cannot see this as a logical choice.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
Haha most of those are in English, if that helps? Wink
KS
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
I *think someone posted a link on this thread, but yeesh wouldn't know where to begin looking.

If I remember it was in Swedish.

Thanks, I really wanted to read the other 50 pages before dinner Smiley
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
I *think someone posted a link on this thread, but yeesh wouldn't know where to begin looking.

If I remember it was in Swedish.
KS
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
ORSoc has 4 locations in Sweden, though their head office is in Stockholm which is where Andreas and Sam are based, from what I understand.

You're on first name basis now? Smiley

They don't have the cap to order and manufacture. ORSoC probably does but my guess is they will only take preorders...hence KnC will need to pay them upfront. (KnC being the fall guy in case things go south)

If someone can point me to a proper site where I can pull their official paperwork (Swedish OK)...
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
ORSoC has 4 locations in Sweden. I'm sure all are equipt with more than tables and chairs, though their head office is in Stockholm which is where Andreas and Sam are based, from what I understand.

Sam and Andreas will probably be able to confirm their seating arrangement tomorrow. Tongue
KS
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
My offer of acting as a bridge between the community and KNCMiner still stands.
I am happy to take a look at the devices once they are ready, and document any information I can get.
Then publish it as a independent third party for anyone to take part of, to make it easier to make a decisions if you should purchase a miner from KNCMiner or not.
I am located in Stockholm and I have very good reputation.
//DeaDTerra

Why don't u walk over to their office or factory and take some photos of their production lines Smiley
videos are even better, pretty sure they must something going on by now, right?

I very much doubt they have a "factory". The capital numbers I found are pretty low (about 6500 USD - but hey, it's a compnay, address, phone and all, from late 2012), so I would guess it's really an office with 5-6 ppl around a big table, *possibly* testing prototypes (no reason to spend 10K USD/month on a EU "factory" worker when you can spend 100x less on a Chinese one).

Or it's an elaborate front (to stay on the fascinating topic of BTC scams) Smiley
KS
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
My offer of acting as a bridge between the community and KNCMiner still stands.
I am happy to take a look at the devices once they are ready, and document any information I can get.
Then publish it as a independent third party for anyone to take part of, to make it easier to make a decisions if you should purchase a miner from KNCMiner or not.
I am located in Stockholm and I have very good reputation.
//DeaDTerra

Why don't u walk over to their office or factory and take some photos of their production lines Smiley
videos are even better, pretty sure they must something going on by now, right?
I will if I get invited.
But I am not the one to go over there uninvited.
//DeaDTerra

Fear their blades? Smiley

(maybe they will call them bars, instead of blades)
donator
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1000
My offer of acting as a bridge between the community and KNCMiner still stands.
I am happy to take a look at the devices once they are ready, and document any information I can get.
Then publish it as a independent third party for anyone to take part of, to make it easier to make a decisions if you should purchase a miner from KNCMiner or not.
I am located in Stockholm and I have very good reputation.
//DeaDTerra

Why don't u walk over to their office or factory and take some photos of their production lines Smiley
videos are even better, pretty sure they must something going on by now, right?
I will if I get invited.
But I am not the one to go over there uninvited.
//DeaDTerra
newbie
Activity: 16
Merit: 0
Thought I'd share some of the information I've gathered over the last couple of weeks from Sam at KnCMiner. Some of the following questions from me have been abbreviated to save space and your eyes, however, Sam's responses are untouched. Here are a few choice tidbits;

~~~~
Q: Are your Mars FPGA miners still in design development, or are they reaching production to amass stock for shipment in the 2 months?
The Mars products are in the prototype phase. We have ordered parts that have a long lead time frame for the mass shipments to start in just over 2 months’ time

Q. Your Mars product looks to be provided with software, may we use other software with these?
Yes as soon as we have a spare prototype we will allow developers such as luke Jr  etc to have enough time and access to code against the devices

Q. With the $2,000 voucher to apply toward the Jupiter model, are you then requiring customers to trade-in or return the Mars unit back to you?
We do not require the Mars product to be returned it’s yours to keep. IF we can issue a firmware update that will make it possible for it to mine anything else, we will do that free of charge to anyone who buys a Mars product.

Q. Are there any assurances that you’re capable of delivering Jupiter within your stated shipment goal to suspend the buyers’ fears of continual delays -or- final hashing specs not reaching original plans?
We know this concern is real and very valid, I would like to say
• We don’t make profit on the Mars product, The components are so expensive that we are really only producing it to prove we can make products in short time frames and that we can achieve our set deadlines.
• ORSoC have been building and making products based on ASIC and FPGA chips for over 10 years They have a proven track record, this is why we have teamed up with them as we can’t afford to let the community down by promising things we later change.
• The public figure for Jupiter is 250 GH/s but, as we stated in the release that’s the minimum and already doesn’t account for the 30% extra we expect to gain from the advanced coding ORSoC are famous for. So today we are saying 250 but we are doing everything we can to make sure that figure rises as high as possible not falls.            
          
Q. Had you considered adding memory to more appropriately re-purpose the Mars FPGA to mine a scrypt based cryptocurrency, such as Litecoin?
It has been requested by many, we may look at producing Mars2.0 or something similar to accomplish that very task, but as for redeveloping the current Mars product to mine litecoins, That would ofcourse delay the Mars product and the Jupiter range which is unacceptable to us.

Q. How far along are you currently with Jupiter's development? Do you have a working prototype at this time?
For Jupiter we currently do not have a working prototype. As soon as that arrives we will show it to the community that’s for sure

Q. Will you be providing pictures and/or videos of the Jupiter unit before you open up the order book for Mars?
Drawings possibly but not actual photos. It would look quite similar in setup to Mars as we are reusing the same ideas.

Q. Are your ASIC chips being developed and produced entirely in-house by ORSoC? Are they also responsible for assembly on the boards?
All the chips and PCB design is taken care of by ORSoC but final assembly is done in an assembly plant in sweden which we have out sourced to, That factory have all the equipment needed and to be honest are faster than us setting up an assembly line ourselves. (Time to market is critical so we choose to outsource to professionals when they are faster)

Q. Are your intentions to ship the Mars and Jupiter units in consolidated batch shipments, or immediately as they are manufactured and become available?
We won’t keep any on the shelf (unless we somehow manage to empty the back log). They will arrive from the assembly plant in the morning go through final testing and then shipped that afternoon

Q. Do you intend on holding consistent communication during development with prospective buyers to sustain confidence?
Oh yes, this email is one of them  we will have sessions in our offices where people can come and “play” with the prototypes we will have web videos and maybe even our own forum

Q. Are you able to elaborate a little further on the embedded Linux device in the Jupiter unit?
http://orsoc.se/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/dev_board_Ordb2a_web1.png
think of it as a RaspberryPi device, it will be tiny in size but specifically setup to do one thing,

Q. What type of connectivity will Jupiter have?
It will have a web interface that you connect to, on that page you will enter your pool details. Other types of connections are possible but we will limit them so we can deliver the box faster

Q. Will we need to supply our own power supplies for Jupiter, as we will with Mars?
Yes

Q. Will there be any sort of warranty coverage on the chips / boards / the water cooling system?
As its electronic we will offer a warranty on a send and replace setup. But as Jupiter is a modular device you will not have to return the whole device just the blade that has issues which allows you to continue mining while we get you a replacement.

Q. Might the Jupiter be capable of overclocking by the consumer?
If they know how, but it will void the warranty the box will come pretty highly tuned from us,

Q. Are the Jupiter units and Mars FPGAs being developed simultaneously, or is the focus on getting Mars out the door as soon as possible?
Getting Mars up and running is our top priority, we need to who the world that we can design and build a rapid prototype and have it run.

Q. You mention the possibility of owning a miner and having it hosted, and also being able to choose your hash speed for a given period and paying for that (alluding to rented hardware). Do you know how those fees will be applied?
It will not be on a % base, it will be on a fixed contract length for a supply of Hashes during that period, we are still working out the details. But we see that with hardware getting more and more expensive people with $100 to “invest” will have nowhere to turn to min coins soon and we don’t like that it makes this an elitists activity and we will look at ways of allowing the man/women with a hundred bucks still be a part of the comminuty.

We are very excited as well. The mining hardware market has treated its customers quite badly. We aim to show that not all companies are as bad as others, But what we really want is to show that if the community gather together they can help shape us providers and hold us to standards. So that the new companies which come along will have to meet those standards.
~~~~

As you can see above, KnC does not have the intent to revise the current Mars pre-order devices to be capable LTC miners in the interest of developing rapidly and avoiding delays. Any FPGA LTC miner they would offer would be a new product to come down the road. That is to say, if nothing has changed since I received these replies. If I'm wrong, I'd hope & expect Sam will correct me here.

Despite the lack of LTC support for the FPGA, my attitude towards KnC has become increasingly optimistic. Granted they still have much to show, I empathize with their positions in what they're trying to accomplish.
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