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Topic: [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] - page 21. (Read 39830 times)

hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
June 04, 2013, 04:49:52 AM
#84
Them some sweet sweet divs. This first month will be the best, but it'll still be worth keeping it in here for ~8 months. After 8 months it'll prob be at 5% APY which is OK if stable.
You have not done research on the network difficulty.

Perhaps not enough, but anything is a guess without knowing how ASIC shipments will play out.

I guestimated based on coinish.com's calculator (rather than $2.66, it was at $62.6 with 0 months as time to delivery) with an increase in difficulty of 1.3% per day that it will be 23x now in 8 months (so around 300 mil). If the APY is around 120% now, it could be 5% in 8 months.

Whatever, if it's 5 months or it's 2%, the point is it'll be good holding onto it up to 5% APY anyway. Before we hit even 15% I don't expect people to be dropping out, YABMC is still going good.

You won't have the option of holding onto it at 5% APY.

What you and lots of others have missed is the detail of the buyback clause.

"The issuer reserves the right to buy back bonds at a price equal to 110% of the highest price the asset was traded for over the prior 7 days or 200 times the value of the most recent dividend."

200 times last dividend means under 29 weeks dividend.  If APY falls to 5% of sales price then that means he can buy back for ~3% of sales price.  I'd expect forced buy back to be WELL before that point.

Right now the buy-back price is about 20% over trading price.  In about 3 difficulty changes' time it'll become profitable for him to buy back (even counting the dividends paid in the interim).  I'd expect him to wait longer than that - as there's more profit to be made letting difficulty rise a bit more first.

I've nothing at all against this sort of offering - I'm working on one myself.  But the buyback at under 30 weeks payout makes this a losing proposition for anyone other than TAT or people who flip shares fast - until their price falls a lot when some opportunities for profit WILL arise.

I've flipped all mine (for my fund) for a profit now - which is why I'm only explaining this now rather than earlier.  As an approximation, to stand a reasonable chance of making a profit on this you need to be buying at around half the current buy-back price (at 200 days' dividend).  I'm not going to explain all the math behind that - but try modelling with any reasonable prediction of network difficulty and you'll end up around that ball-park.

The devil is ALWAYS in the detail - in this case the detail of buy-back rights.
vip
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1043
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June 04, 2013, 03:59:42 AM
#83
Electricity, space, and yes maintenance has a value.
full member
Activity: 172
Merit: 100
June 04, 2013, 03:54:02 AM
#82
I think I am misunderstanding something. Each share is worth 1 Mhash/s but costs 0.007 BTC, which is about 84 cents, giving 0.84$/1Mhash.s
A 7950 costs around $300 but gives 500Mhash/s, giving 0.60$/1Mhash.s

Why would anyone purchase this share over just getting a GPU, ignoring the need for maintenance and whatnot.
vip
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1043
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June 04, 2013, 03:28:11 AM
#81
But that's all moot if the value of your share drops. In addition, increasing per day is compound, and the network difficulty has being growing by more than 3% a day recently. The difference is huge:

1.03^365 = 48482x
1.013^365 = 111x

PMBs CAN only give a certain amount of output. The higher the difficulty is, the more the output is permanently reduced. The difficulty is not going to go back to pre-ASIC eras, unless Bitcoins become worthless, then well.

20% APR is horrible if after a year the shares are worth 75% of what they are before.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
You can't kill math.
June 04, 2013, 03:18:06 AM
#80
Them some sweet sweet divs. This first month will be the best, but it'll still be worth keeping it in here for ~8 months. After 8 months it'll prob be at 5% APY which is OK if stable.
You have not done research on the network difficulty.

Perhaps not enough, but anything is a guess without knowing how ASIC shipments will play out.

I guestimated based on coinish.com's calculator (rather than $2.66, it was at $62.6 with 0 months as time to delivery) with an increase in difficulty of 1.3% per day that it will be 23x now in 8 months (so around 300 mil). If the APY is around 120% now, it could be 5% in 8 months.

Whatever, if it's 5 months or it's 2%, the point is it'll be good holding onto it up to 5% APY anyway. Before we hit even 15% I don't expect people to be dropping out, YABMC is still going good.
vip
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1043
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June 04, 2013, 01:52:57 AM
#79
Them some sweet sweet divs. This first month will be the best, but it'll still be worth keeping it in here for ~8 months. After 8 months it'll prob be at 5% APY which is OK if stable.
You have not done research on the network difficulty.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
June 04, 2013, 12:58:12 AM
#78
The first daily payout is complete; 94% of the IPO sold in 24 hours!

Thanks to everyone for a successful day.

Congrats! should be able to make profit from this in the short term. Unless you get hasty with the releases any drive the market down....  Smiley

Will there be a notification process on the releases? or will they be kind of just sprung on the market?
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
June 03, 2013, 08:07:50 PM
#77
Theres a near 10% disparity between the bids and asks over at bitfunder right now, someone could easily make a quick buck.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
You can't kill math.
June 03, 2013, 07:04:29 PM
#76
Them some sweet sweet divs. This first month will be the best, but it'll still be worth keeping it in here for ~8 months. After 8 months it'll prob be at 5% APY which is OK if stable.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
June 03, 2013, 05:52:44 PM
#75
Right now, the dividends are near 3.5% per week, which are significantly higher than what ASICminer can produce, I would say this would be a very profitable investment for about a month or so.
member
Activity: 67
Merit: 10
June 03, 2013, 05:43:05 PM
#74
Wouldn't the fundamental value of these shares be inversely proportional to difficulty?

That means that they are designed to slowly dwindle in value until they are worthless. doesn't it?

i don't see how you could possibly get an ROI in the long term. could be good for a short stint though if you get out at the right time.

in theory they will get worthless when mining doesnt produce more bitcoins sometimes in the future (2040?)
so id say it is possible you will get your money back and profit just by dividents but if that is a profitable idea is another matter...
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
June 03, 2013, 05:31:58 PM
#73
TAT any news on a havelock release

Havelock talks are in the works, nothing guaranteed yet though.
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1090
Learning the troll avoidance button :)
June 03, 2013, 04:33:45 PM
#72
TAT any news on a havelock release
sr. member
Activity: 283
Merit: 250
June 03, 2013, 12:42:13 PM
#71
This is a good start to a project, thank you
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
June 03, 2013, 11:02:32 AM
#70
The first daily payout is complete; 94% of the IPO sold in 24 hours!

Thanks to everyone for a successful day.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
June 03, 2013, 10:01:32 AM
#69
The IPO is 80% sold so far.

The first daily payout is in about an hour, at 0.00004138 per share.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
You can't kill math.
June 03, 2013, 06:13:00 AM
#68
when are the dividends payed?

will they be payed after all the 100k shares from IPO have been sold?

Dividends are paid daily at roughly 12PM EST. BitFunder does not have a feature to allow me to schedule payouts ahead of time, so they must be done manually.

Payouts will be made on this schedule regardless of the amount of shares sold.

The first payout will be in about 5 hours!

Manual? Wow, that sucks.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
June 03, 2013, 05:50:33 AM
#67
when are the dividends payed?

will they be payed after all the 100k shares from IPO have been sold?

Dividends are paid daily at roughly 12PM EST. BitFunder does not have a feature to allow me to schedule payouts ahead of time, so they must be done manually.

Payouts will be made on this schedule regardless of the amount of shares sold.

The first payout will be in about 5 hours!
newbie
Activity: 20
Merit: 0
June 03, 2013, 05:36:37 AM
#66
when are the dividends payed?

will they be payed after all the 100k shares from IPO have been sold?
hero member
Activity: 656
Merit: 500
June 03, 2013, 05:30:11 AM
#65
hi tat, your handy chart should include picostock's 100th bitfury project.  200mh/share for btc0.289 at present is 0.001445 per mh.

https://picostocks.com/stocks/view/19

I considered them, but most people have never used picostocks.com, and I'm uncertain of its trustworthiness and notoriety within the community.

The chart was merely meant to paint a picture of a generally overpriced marketplace. If/when I update it in the future, I'll reconsider the 100TH project, particularly if it has materialized by then. Wink

Same with me. Do a PTs on BF or BTCT with TAT. !
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