Topic: [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] - page 22. (Read 39830 times)

I considered them, but most people have never used picostocks.com, and I'm uncertain of its trustworthiness and notoriety within the community.

The chart was merely meant to paint a picture of a generally overpriced marketplace. If/when I update it in the future, I'll reconsider the 100TH project, particularly if it has materialized by then.

TAT.VM promises to hold a certain number of ASICMINER shares as extra assurance that the daily payouts will be made. This is in addition to the confidence that I have enough personal bitcoin to make payouts, even if I didn't hold backing assets.

Your understanding of the hashing aspect and how it works to back this asset is correct. Essentially, I am promising to hold an amount of AM shares that provably represents and equal or greater amount of hashing power to the amount of TAT.VM I have sold.

The only relationship my AM holdings have to this asset is as a form of assurance that the daily payout, as determined by the 24-hour hashing reward formula, will be paid with total confidence. TAT.VM is strictly meant to represent a virtual 1MH/s of hashing power, and the average mining rewards that might reap in a real-world setting, as determined by the formula.

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If I may, I'm hoping to address your dissenting vote for TAT.VM to list on BTCTC

TAT.VM is more than a simple bond, as it provides a speculative instrument that is very relevant within the current market environment. Due to the overpriced and obfuscated value of the majority of mining assets on the market, there will be creative ways to "play" this asset that will also lead to making a profit, due to its daily payout frequency and that the market likely considers TAT.VM to be underpriced.

What I am offering, despite its obvious exposure to mining difficulty increases, is one of the best value hashing representations out there.

Additionally, no matter how unlikely it may seem, it is not a guarantee the mining difficulty will go up forever, and this asset does provide a method for someone to hedge against that. In this sense I do have real risks on the table, risks that I had to consider heavily in pricing this asset.

Thank you for your questions, I do hope my answers help you to reconsider your vote for TAT.VM on BTCTC!

Wouldn't the fundamental value of these shares be inversely proportional to difficulty?

That means that they are designed to slowly dwindle in value until they are worthless. doesn't it?

i don't see how you could possibly get an ROI in the long term. could be good for a short stint though if you get out at the right time.

hehe yeah i shaw and was like whaaaat?

Ouch.  Pretty good deal for whoever ended up snatching that up though.

yep indeed its 7142 mh/s

I pity the person who sold 1000 TAT.VM shares at 0.0007 instead of 0.007 by mistake on bf .That's what created an interesting V in the chart.

Nice analysis, however you could also conclude that the hardware is over-priced.

Can you explain what you mean by "backed by ... ASICMINER shares"? Does this mean that TAT.VM holds shares of ASICMINER, and these shares belong to bond holders? Or, does it just mean that TAT.VM promises to hold a certain number of shares of ASICMINER as assurance that TAT.VM dividends will be paid?

Also, does "ASICMINER shares that represent an amount of hashing power" mean average hashing power per ASICMINER share? For example, the current ASICMINER hashing power is about 20 Th/s, or about 50 Mh/s/share, so each TAT.VM share would be backed by 1/50th of an ASICMINER share, right?

Finally, in addition to mining, a portion of ASICMINER dividends is based on the profits from sales of hardware. What happens to this portion of the dividends?

Something to invest in on Bitfunder other than AMC, although riding their ups and downs helped me grow my initial .1 investment into over .122 in a couple week's time.  This investment seems more trustworthy to me, as my TAT.ASICMINER on BTCT has been decent.

The IPO price seems to be chosen to be just a bit more expensive than the cost/hash of an Asicminer USB stick (142 MH/BTC for TAT.VM vs ~150-170 MH/BTC for Asicminer USB). Given that people are buying those, and those are physical hardware that has a finite lifespan, draws electricity, has to be shipped so it can't start hashing right away, needs to be plugged into a USB port that also costs a certain amount of money, etc, it would seem that TAT.VM is priced pretty well. Remember that the inherent problem of your investment's hash power staying still while network hashrate grows applies just as much to the purchase of any physical mining hardware. If you discount the risk of having to trust a third party rather than owning a physical piece of hardware, I'd say this asset would probably be worth somewhere around 0.01-0.015 BTC / share until ASICs cheaper than Asicminer ones are freely available. I think it will rise considerably above the IPO price in the short term, before falling sometime around when people can freely buy (and have shipped right away) ASIC hardware such as from BFL or Avalon, or if Asicminer sells future blades/USBs at a lower price.

Not quite. People getting into TAT.VM are either looking for somewhere to put their coins as an intermediate between ups and downs in other stocks, or they're looking for passive consistent dividends yielding 5-30% APY (interest a year), like a normal solid stock. It's the *safe* choice. Currently people use YABMC for this, but YABMC doesn't have many shares on Bitfunder (500), and on BTCT it doesn't have much activity, isn't clear to people on the MH per share, and does weekly dividends (the difficulty for the last 6 days will be whatever is on the 7th day, which isn't fair). YABMC has been fairly consistent in price. Actually, it's been increasing, as more people want to use it as an intermediate. TAT.VM is very clear, and daily, and on Bitfunder. It's a great intermediary if you're interested in it. It's at like 30% APY, which is nothing to sneeze at, so even as it decreases to 5% it's still a good holding, thus the price should not drop below the IPO very much.

Yeah it should. 100TH is about 5x cheaper than TAT.VM, but not mining for a few more months at least, and the issuer screwed some people by distributing more shares at a lower price after IPO. ASIC.COOP's numbers are about the same.

hi tat, your handy chart should include picostock's 100th bitfury project.  200mh/share for btc0.289 at present is 0.001445 per mh.

https://picostocks.com/stocks/view/19

Investing in this bond is essentially a bet against ASICMiner growth.

Otherwise if you think ASICminer is going to have strong growth - buy shares.
If you think another company is going to grow faster or release a hot ASIC - then buy that.
The reason to buy this bond is that you think ASICMiner won't grow as fast as expected AND other ASIC projects won't succeed as fast as expected.  Then having a guaranteed hash rate is good.

By betting against ASICMiner growth the bond owners are also betting against the bond issuer.

It is not my goal to devalue the bonds prematurely, but I did need a way to allow myself to issue more shares in the future because my analysis leads me to believe demand will be high. It is in everyone's best interest (including my own) for the value to be set by the market.

I do not have a set plan for frequency of sales, but I will consider coming up with a way to make the issuance of new bonds more structured and/or formulaic.

At the moment, I plan to play it by ear. I do not want to sell an infinite amount of shares, even if I could. There are real liabilities at stake here.

Check your math, you've got an extra 4 in there

This asset was intentionally priced to be more expensive than a Block Erupter.

So.. i did some number crunching...
a Block Erupter Blade ASICMINER   10   costs ฿ 50 and delivers 10,000 Mh/s
now lets say you use those 50 btc and buy bonds you get 50/0.007 = 7142 shares or 7,142 Mh/s (the 7,4142 was a typo )

hmm interesting...

I bolded a statement that I find to be fairly accurate and is a major motivator in buying shares, however in the original post you also have claimed the right to issue new shares at "fair market price" :

This right, in addition to the fact that there is no ceiling to the number of shares that may be in circulation at any one time, leads to the following risk:

- The "fair market value" of 1 MH/s decreases significantly over time
- You, as per your right, begin to issue more shares (You can do this infinitely as per current rules) at the new fair market value, which will be below IPO price.
- The overall value of the stock declines much faster than it would have otherwise

Rinse and repeat.

So given what I have stated above, I would like to ask
1.) How often do you plan on issuing new shares?
2.) Will warning be given before issuing new shares?

Mining difficulty is likely to generally go up over time, but share price for most mining assets is usually much more delayed in being affected. I can't control the market, but I would not be surprised at all if share value actually goes up in the short term. I am offering something at nearly half the rate of other issuers, so it's possible the prices will meet somewhere in the middle.

It's also possible that something could happen to stagnate difficulty, and even though it's unlikely, there is always a chance that difficulty could rise very slowly for a period, allowing healthy dividends to be prolonged.

There may also be strategies for reinvesting dividends into more bonds in the short term, that might allow you to float over the diff changes, combined with a healthy share price. There is a lot to consider, and many dynamics to factor in this market. Overall, ALL mining assets have their risks, as well as their relationship to difficulty changes.