But as far as I can see there was never a single successful state using your ideals before.
Is it okay if I don't want gangs to succeed?
Topic: Taxation [discussion] (Read 4042 times)
Is it okay if I don't want gangs to succeed?
But as far as I can see there was never a single successful state using your ideals before. The internet (and also Bitcoin) gives new possibilties, but you will have to proof your concepts, if you ever want to win people's trust to your ideas.
I don't care if you trust my ideas or not. Neither one of us has the right to force the other to live by his ideas.
This is like saying Rosa Parks has to prove blacks are as good as whites before she can sit where she wants in the bus, and browbeating her for "blaming the current system."
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Discrediting and blaming the current system is easy, doing it better is very very difficult.
Doesn't matter if the "current system" is credited or blamed; doesn't matter if any system is "better" or not. What matters is consent. I don't.
Then great, go ahead!
A lot of the current states are not doing the best job, I can agree.
But as far as I can see there was never a single successful state using your ideals before. The internet (and also Bitcoin) gives new possibilties, but you will have to proof your concepts, if you ever want to win people's trust to your ideas.
Discrediting and blaming the current system is easy, doing it better is very very difficult.
A lot of the current states are not doing the best job, I can agree.
But as far as I can see there was never a single successful state using your ideals before. The internet (and also Bitcoin) gives new possibilties, but you will have to proof your concepts, if you ever want to win people's trust to your ideas.
Discrediting and blaming the current system is easy, doing it better is very very difficult.
That's just it; we couldn't if we wanted to. There's no place on this planet in which the state does not creep. The only place I can think of currently is Somalia, but I predict, if they improve enough, and enough people leave to go live there, they'll get tossed around by some country's government or another and a state will be installed against people's will, until they tire themselves out and finally accept whichever country decides to take over.
That's why we need people to understand why the alternative is better. To change the status quo, we need people. No individual can begin a society. Not a hundred people. Not a thousand people. It takes a large effort, and to uproot the state, you need a huge amount of people, a nation's worth, all on the same page, all educated to a point where the state is unnecessary. As long as state proponents outweigh state opponents, there's not a lot of choice in the matter. That's the point. That's the state. There's no choice in the matter.
Discrediting and blaming the current system is easy, doing it better is very very difficult.
Agreed. How long does a nation need to survive before you consider it "successful?"
I think you get me wrong on one term, it's not that I clinge to the current system with it's tax. (It just happens to be the system that is established since a long time, so improving this is the most simple way)
If you are able to create a system that
- is able to provide proper education for everyone
- keeps up all necessary infrastructure
- doesn't cast aside people just because they are old, born in the wrong family etc.
- is able to fight crime
- is able to provide proper healthcare
- can work environmentally sustainable
...just to name a few
Then great, go ahead!
A lot of the current states are not doing the best job, I can agree.
But as far as I can see there was never a single successful state using your ideals before. The internet (and also Bitcoin) gives new possibilties, but you will have to proof your concepts, if you ever want to win people's trust to your ideas.
Discrediting and blaming the current system is easy, doing it better is very very difficult.
If you are able to create a system that
- is able to provide proper education for everyone
- keeps up all necessary infrastructure
- doesn't cast aside people just because they are old, born in the wrong family etc.
- is able to fight crime
- is able to provide proper healthcare
- can work environmentally sustainable
...just to name a few
Then great, go ahead!
A lot of the current states are not doing the best job, I can agree.
But as far as I can see there was never a single successful state using your ideals before. The internet (and also Bitcoin) gives new possibilties, but you will have to proof your concepts, if you ever want to win people's trust to your ideas.
Discrediting and blaming the current system is easy, doing it better is very very difficult.
We are not toddlers and are old enough to understand that merely wanting something does not obligate the world to give it to us.
Well, maybe not all. A moderately famous author tweeted to me once "I want free healthcare, and I'm going to bitch 'til I get it!" E.g. I want a country to have schools, because I don't want to live in a world where everybody is stupid.
Why should everybody else have to give you what you want? People should work for what they want.
If I want a world without drugs and gambling, does that give me the right to engage in the criminal, immoral act of prohibiting drug use and gambling?
We are not toddlers and are old enough to understand that merely wanting something does not obligate the world to give it to us.
What if we as Bitcoin community would offer a deal?
We could try to create a fair taxation model and integrate this into the Bitcoin system?
We could try to create a fair taxation model and integrate this into the Bitcoin system?
Bitcoin already has a fair taxation model:
You keep your money and contribute only to causes you believe in.
That's the only fair taxation model in the world.
We would end up in an automated system, that would end all of tax fraud
Why would you want to end tax fraud? Tax fraud is the moral equivalent of Rosa Parks sitting in the "whites only" section of the bus, defying the law. We should not try to help those who oppress our neighbors.
What if we as Bitcoin community would offer a deal?
We could try to create a fair taxation model and integrate this into the Bitcoin system?
We could try to create a fair taxation model and integrate this into the Bitcoin system?
Bitcoin already has a fair taxation model:
You keep your money and contribute only to causes you believe in.
That's the only fair taxation model in the world.
Anarchist, huh?
There are things that the community has to pay for together, if you like it or not.
There are things that the community has to pay for together, if you like it or not.
Land Value Tax, real estate taxes...
No income or sales taxes necessary.
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In 1894, Democrats in Congress passed the Wilson-Gorman tariff, which imposed the first peacetime income tax. The rate was 2% on income over $4000, which meant fewer than 10% of households would pay any. The purpose of the income tax was to make up for revenue that would be lost by tariff reductions.[38]
(not that I support any involuntary taxation)
Then you probably know that Iceland was very early in forming a democracy and laws. IOW-building a modern state. Before that there were small kings and owners of large farms etc. that ruled the land. Or as Samuel Jackson would have said at that time - "I pitty the fool who has to rent his land".
Mister T...
Damn, wrong guy.
It's so easy to just put all the fault on the evil states.
I'm not a supporter of states per se, but I cannot see anarchy doing a good job for humanity.
I'm not a supporter of states per se, but I cannot see anarchy doing a good job for humanity.
So what are you gonna do about it? Force me to live under democracy? Sounds like a better job for humanity.
Ladies and gentlemen: Rationale no. 1 for coercion and use of force.
"You don't want my rules? You don't know what's good for you. I will force rules on you to make this world better for you!"
Present a concept that will not do this and will not end up in chaos.
Random nitpick, and I'm sure there's an answer to it somewhere: I still don't get why corporations have their skyscrapers in the government's meat pie. Aren't businesses supposed to do business stuff, like providing goods and services? What does the faceless, abstract entity that is Amazon have to do with human affairs? Is it the owner who is in favor of Internet sales tax? Is it the employees? I don't get it. Is Amazon supposed to have an official political standing point, and who decides it?
Drug companies for example spend somewhere to the tune of $9 out of every $10 on regulatory BS... you won't find a bigger fan of those requirements than big pharma.
Random nitpick, and I'm sure there's an answer to it somewhere: I still don't get why corporations have their skyscrapers in the government's meat pie. Aren't businesses supposed to do business stuff, like providing goods and services? What does the faceless, abstract entity that is Amazon have to do with human affairs? Is it the owner who is in favor of Internet sales tax? Is it the employees? I don't get it. Is Amazon supposed to have an official political standing point, and who decides it?
At one point, Internet sales taxes would have hampered Amazon and it lobbied to prevent it.
Right now, Amazon has a unique infrastructure that means it can handle an Internet sales tax. But a new competitor would not be able to handle it from day 1 so it creates a barrier to entry to Amazon's market.
By a strange co-incidence, Amazon now is all for an Internet sales tax. Go figure...
Yes taxes are a hassle. I am converting some BTC to cash and not sure how I am going to deal with tax consequences.
States have destroyed free and stateless societies for 100s of years and will continue to do so fpr 100s of years time if we allow it.
ftfy.
Um - http://daviddfriedman.com/The_Machinery_of_Freedom_.pdf
Read it. Stateless societies have existed and were indeed destroyed by states. My country, Ireland, was one of them. The important thing is to understand why it was inevitable and why they won't be coming back.
Then you probably know that Iceland was very early in forming a democracy and laws. IOW-building a modern state. Before that there were small kings and owners of large farms etc. that ruled the land. Or as Samuel Jackson would have said at that time - "I pitty the fool who has to rent his land".
Mister T...
Random nitpick, and I'm sure there's an answer to it somewhere: I still don't get why corporations have their skyscrapers in the government's meat pie. Aren't businesses supposed to do business stuff, like providing goods and services? What does the faceless, abstract entity that is Amazon have to do with human affairs? Is it the owner who is in favor of Internet sales tax? Is it the employees? I don't get it. Is Amazon supposed to have an official political standing point, and who decides it?
States have destroyed free and stateless societies for 100s of years and will continue to do so fpr 100s of years time if we allow it.
ftfy.
Um - http://daviddfriedman.com/The_Machinery_of_Freedom_.pdf
Read it. Stateless societies have existed and were indeed destroyed by states. My country, Ireland, was one of them. The important thing is to understand why it was inevitable and why they won't be coming back.
Then you probably know that Iceland was very early in forming a democracy and laws. IOW-building a modern state. Before that there were small kings and owners of large farms etc. that ruled the land. Or as Samuel Jackson would have said at that time - "I pitty the fool who has to rent his land".
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