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Topic: Technological unemployment is (almost) here - page 30. (Read 88285 times)

donator
Activity: 452
Merit: 252
I think unconditional income is likely. The gov't is the only thing currently that is able to provide people with money (because it's THE ISSUER).
The problem is the gov't itself. Any gov't eventually becomes corrupt so unless this problem is solved we won't see effective monetary and fiscal policy.

But that can't be so unless the people themselves are corrupt, since a governing body is comprised of the people.

which we are, as a whole.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
I think unconditional income is likely. The gov't is the only thing currently that is able to provide people with money (because it's THE ISSUER).
The problem is the gov't itself. Any gov't eventually becomes corrupt so unless this problem is solved we won't see effective monetary and fiscal policy.

But that can't be so unless the people themselves are corrupt, since a governing body is comprised of the people.
legendary
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1009
I think unconditional income is likely. The gov't is the only thing currently that is able to provide people with money (because it's THE ISSUER).
The problem is the gov't itself. Any gov't eventually becomes corrupt so unless this problem is solved we won't see effective monetary and fiscal policy.
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1002
Instead of taking 20% of my income and giving it to people who are doing wasteful fictional work, wouldn't it have been much more efficient to just take my 20% and give it to those people directly? I mean, if it's unproductive work, anyway...
These jobs are useless only from the market perspective, however strongly benefit the whole humanity! I think almost nobody will be happy to live without environment improving projects, parks, fundamental science, space exploration, healthcare, education!

An idle mind is the devil's playground." - Lisa Marie Presley
+1M. All unconditional income's supporters must understand this fact and stop supporting this stupid idea! There is no other way to save humanity's dignity and civilization than to provide everyone with some employment. And its obvious that full employment feasible only in the planned economy model.
donator
Activity: 452
Merit: 252
I like Bitcoin very much, but think realistically - if the FED banksters will stop printing USD and make BTC legal tender, millions of fictional and unproductive jobs (NSA & FBI staff, soldiers, police, prison guards, office clerks etc) will fade away and real unemployment will hit >50% just after few months, not years or decades as probably will happen in case with robots.

Why do we want fictional and unproductive jobs? We all have to pay for them. Wouldn't we rather spend that same money to pay for real productive jobs?

What real productive jobs? in 10 years those won't exist unless something drastic changes. No human on the planet is better than a machine doing the same task, not with ANNs.

Instead of taking 20% of my income and giving it to people who are doing wasteful fictional work, wouldn't it have been much more efficient to just take my 20% and give it to those people directly? I mean, if it's unproductive work, anyway...

"If I'm alone too long I think too much, and I'm not interested in doing that. That won't lead anywhere good, I'm sure. If I'm busy I tend to stay out of trouble. An idle mind is the devil's playground." - Lisa Marie Presley


There is a reason why people desire work, even outside of economic reasons. Many people have a desire to produce, to be productive, to not waste their body and mind doing nothing but pleasure, we may not like doing work but psychologically we need it to remain sane.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
Why do we want fictional and unproductive jobs? We all have to pay for them. Wouldn't we rather spend that same money to pay for real productive jobs?
I have an assumption that without creation of the fictional jobs (also many service sector jobs are useless or redundant) technological unemployment could emerge many decades ago, probably Great Depression of 1930's could never end!

Instead of taking 20% of my income and giving it to people who are doing wasteful fictional work, wouldn't it have been much more efficient to just take my 20% and give it to those people directly? I mean, if it's unproductive work, anyway...
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
the solution is to outlaw corporations owning automated systems, but allow citizens to own up 10 automated systems, and charge corporations rent to use them.


And who will pay to enforce that law?
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1002
Why do we want fictional and unproductive jobs? We all have to pay for them. Wouldn't we rather spend that same money to pay for real productive jobs?
I have an assumption that without creation of the fictional jobs (also many service sector jobs are useless or redundant) technological unemployment could emerge many decades ago, probably Great Depression of 1930's could never end!
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
the solution is to outlaw corporations owning automated systems, but allow citizens to own up 10 automated systems, and charge corporations rent to use them.


And who will pay to enforce that law?
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
I like Bitcoin very much, but think realistically - if the FED banksters will stop printing USD and make BTC legal tender, millions of fictional and unproductive jobs (NSA & FBI staff, soldiers, police, prison guards, office clerks etc) will fade away and real unemployment will hit >50% just after few months, not years or decades as probably will happen in case with robots.

Why do we want fictional and unproductive jobs? We all have to pay for them. Wouldn't we rather spend that same money to pay for real productive jobs?
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
Clearly the only solution is to nuke the whole earth and retreat into subterranean cave dwellings to prosper and survive. 
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1002
the solution is to outlaw corporations owning automated systems, but allow citizens to own up 10 automated systems, and charge corporations rent to use them. the government could help the citizens get a few systems to start with, but it would be up to the citizens to market them to the corporations
or use them themselves.
A corporatist elite now in power in the most countries will hurt corporations' interests...hmm...looks very realistic! Grin
newbie
Activity: 22
Merit: 0
the solution is to outlaw corporations owning automated systems, but allow citizens to own up 10 automated systems, and charge corporations rent to use them. the government could help the citizens get a few systems to start with, but it would be up to the citizens to market them to the corporations
or use them themselves.
hero member
Activity: 727
Merit: 500
Minimum Effort/Maximum effect
Very true, if DACs using Bitcoin are roaming the world... we could lose all our jobs in a matter of months, it would be a ground breaking accomplishment. All people in the developed world instantly having all their needs being dispensed by mobile Corporate micro DACs 3D printing all peoples needs at a fraction of current costs.
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1002
Stupid government. New Bitcoin financial services alone could probably add a few 100k jobs, but most of them can't even start because it takes too long and costs too much to get licensed
I like Bitcoin very much, but think realistically - if the FED banksters will stop printing USD and make BTC legal tender, millions of fictional and unproductive jobs (NSA & FBI staff, soldiers, police, prison guards, office clerks etc) will fade away and real unemployment will hit >50% just after few months, not years or decades as probably will happen in case with robots.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
Stupid government. New Bitcoin financial services alone could probably add a few 100k jobs, but most of them can't even start because it takes too long and costs too much to get licensed
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1002
US BLS issued rigged unemployment report again stating jobless rate have fallen from 7% to 6.7% in December, however labor participation rate hit lowest value since 1978 (62.8%)!

legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1002
You guys are still just looking at unemployment in US and Europe, and forgetting that billions of new jobs were created in India, China, Russia, and South East Asia in just the last decade, with probably over a billion of those being middle class jobs, which almost didn't even exist in those countries before 2000's. All these were private sector jobs, not government.
Chinese boom was caused by industrial production offshoring from the US and EU, which is coming to the end now. Some corporations (Apple, GE, Caterpillar) already started bringing back manufacturing because wages in China have risen enough to make production here uncompetitive comparing to the local manufacturing on highly-automated plants (which also let to save on transportation costs).
Developing countries (China, South East Asia, partly India) will suffer at most because they won't have neither menial jobs, nor skilled population to make a transition.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
You guys are still just looking at unemployment in US and Europe, and forgetting that billions of new jobs were created in India, China, Russia, and South East Asia in just the last decade, with probably over a billion of those being middle class jobs, which almost didn't even exist in those countries before 2000's. All these were private sector jobs, not government.
member
Activity: 119
Merit: 10

Who knows, may be yes... Official stats are heavily rigged, don't trust them at all!
For example, about 1 million U.S. long term unemployed will lose benefits in January and probably will be deducted from the unemployment rate. Also don't forget about underployment (i.e. people work only 3-4 hours a day with appropriate wage reduction) which is rampant now. Better look at Shadow Stats alternate unemployment rate which looks much more trustworthy!

And dont forget government jobs ( which are on record high worldwide )

Those are not free-market jobs those are politics sponsored jobs. Government all around the world could employ half a population to sit a the desk and do nothing Rassak would still claim technological unemployment does not exists because unemployment is low.

This iron free-market logic ...

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