Test Cricket Prediction and Discussion Thread [self - mod] - page 1111.

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Quote from: Indymoney on October 15, 2019, 02:50:51 PM

Quote from: JSRAW on October 15, 2019, 12:03:55 PM

Quote from: Haunebu on October 15, 2019, 04:40:10 AM

Quote from: JSRAW on October 15, 2019, 03:05:17 AM

~snip~

True. India already faces an insane reservation problem in areas like education etc which is why this is a big relief although corruption is still a big problem in terms of selections and I don't see this problem getting minimized anytime soon.

Yeah we can't deny corruption factor on selection criteria. its more of a power balance; to be more precisely, when selectors become or act like an fanboy for any captain. then situations gets worse, it happened in recent time as @teosanru pointed out in his post and i quote "like Ambati Raydu and others were never selected in team due to certain political intervention"

Sourav Ganguly is now BCCI's president so there are good chance, where he can keep a tab on Indian Captain and coach.

Quote from: Haunebu on October 15, 2019, 04:40:10 AM

Quote from: JSRAW on October 15, 2019, 03:05:17 AM

May be add Ishant and especially Umesh Yadav. he performs good in Indian conditions.

Ishant and Umesh never really impressed me to be honest, but they are great bowlers although I would choose Bhuvi over them since I like his variations. Chahal and Kuldeep are also rising up the ranks these days.

In shorter format i think the same but in Test Format they both did okay and on some occasion gave excellent performance. Bhuvi is one of my fav bowler but in Red ball cricket competition is tough in between Indian seamers. its good as far as Indian cricket is concern.

Wrist bowlers are always handy and I would like to see Chahal in Test Cricket as well, may be in next 3-4 years or when situation demands. Tough time for Kuldeep, lets see if he can get in the Test Squad first, its cutthroat competition and everything depends on combination but he has a bright future that's for sure.

Saurav Ganguly was one of best Indian Captain and he bring too many good and positive things in Indian cricket now as he is going to be BCCI president we can expect some good and professional changes from him even system is very powerful and one man cannot do many changes but still this could be very good and Gold time for Indian cricket.

I don't think this to be a golden time for Indian cricket. He as a cricketer knows the needs of the players, understanding that he might do the necessary changes. When it comes to team selection and all other things there will be pressure for him to choose players and he can't do things independently. Also, even he has did more such things when he was the captain to the Indian Cricket team.

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Quote from: JSRAW on October 15, 2019, 12:03:55 PM

Quote from: Haunebu on October 15, 2019, 04:40:10 AM

Quote from: JSRAW on October 15, 2019, 03:05:17 AM

~snip~

True. India already faces an insane reservation problem in areas like education etc which is why this is a big relief although corruption is still a big problem in terms of selections and I don't see this problem getting minimized anytime soon.

Yeah we can't deny corruption factor on selection criteria. its more of a power balance; to be more precisely, when selectors become or act like an fanboy for any captain. then situations gets worse, it happened in recent time as @teosanru pointed out in his post and i quote "like Ambati Raydu and others were never selected in team due to certain political intervention"

Sourav Ganguly is now BCCI's president so there are good chance, where he can keep a tab on Indian Captain and coach.

Quote from: Haunebu on October 15, 2019, 04:40:10 AM

Quote from: JSRAW on October 15, 2019, 03:05:17 AM

May be add Ishant and especially Umesh Yadav. he performs good in Indian conditions.

Ishant and Umesh never really impressed me to be honest, but they are great bowlers although I would choose Bhuvi over them since I like his variations. Chahal and Kuldeep are also rising up the ranks these days.

In shorter format i think the same but in Test Format they both did okay and on some occasion gave excellent performance. Bhuvi is one of my fav bowler but in Red ball cricket competition is tough in between Indian seamers. its good as far as Indian cricket is concern.

Wrist bowlers are always handy and I would like to see Chahal in Test Cricket as well, may be in next 3-4 years or when situation demands. Tough time for Kuldeep, lets see if he can get in the Test Squad first, its cutthroat competition and everything depends on combination but he has a bright future that's for sure.

Saurav Ganguly was one of best Indian Captain and he bring too many good and positive things in Indian cricket now as he is going to be BCCI president we can expect some good and professional changes from him even system is very powerful and one man cannot do many changes but still this could be very good and Gold time for Indian cricket.

JSRAW

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Quote from: Haunebu on October 15, 2019, 04:40:10 AM

Quote from: JSRAW on October 15, 2019, 03:05:17 AM

~snip~

True. India already faces an insane reservation problem in areas like education etc which is why this is a big relief although corruption is still a big problem in terms of selections and I don't see this problem getting minimized anytime soon.

Yeah we can't deny corruption factor on selection criteria. its more of a power balance; to be more precisely, when selectors become or act like an fanboy for any captain. then situations gets worse, it happened in recent time as @teosanru pointed out in his post and i quote "like Ambati Raydu and others were never selected in team due to certain political intervention"

Sourav Ganguly is now BCCI's president so there are good chance, where he can keep a tab on Indian Captain and coach.

Quote from: Haunebu on October 15, 2019, 04:40:10 AM

Quote from: JSRAW on October 15, 2019, 03:05:17 AM

May be add Ishant and especially Umesh Yadav. he performs good in Indian conditions.

Ishant and Umesh never really impressed me to be honest, but they are great bowlers although I would choose Bhuvi over them since I like his variations. Chahal and Kuldeep are also rising up the ranks these days.

In shorter format i think the same but in Test Format they both did okay and on some occasion gave excellent performance. Bhuvi is one of my fav bowler but in Red ball cricket competition is tough in between Indian seamers. its good as far as Indian cricket is concern.

Wrist bowlers are always handy and I would like to see Chahal in Test Cricket as well, may be in next 3-4 years or when situation demands. Tough time for Kuldeep, lets see if he can get in the Test Squad first, its cutthroat competition and everything depends on combination but he has a bright future that's for sure.

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Quote from: JSRAW on October 15, 2019, 03:05:17 AM

Quote from: Haunebu on October 15, 2019, 02:23:10 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on October 14, 2019, 08:28:39 AM

Cricket South Africa (CSA) is solely responsible for the death of cricket in that country. Their stupid quota system has destroyed the quality of their national team, as well as the domestic cricket in that country. I can understand quota system in education and employment, as I come from India where up to 70% of the seats are reserved based on the caste. But implementing quota system in sports is just ridiculous.

What the heck? Did not know that CSA followed a quota system. Absolutely messed up. Corruption along with this stupid system are probably the primary reasons why many quality South African players are not being given any chances.

Why do you think their Domestic players runs towards other cricketing nations. I am just glad that BCCI doesn't follow this pattern, otherwise Indian cricket is doomed as well. as a matter of fact every citizen of India and every institution (political +social) doesn't want to implement Quota reservation in only 2 Areas. One is Army and Second is Indian Cricket Team.

Quote from: Haunebu on October 15, 2019, 02:23:10 AM

Quote from: JSRAW on October 15, 2019, 01:41:47 AM

Bumrah and Shami along with Ashwin and Jadeja are probably the reasons behind such amazing statistics. I can confidently say that these guys form the best bowling lineup in the Indian team at present(Bonus is the fact that Jadeja and Ashwin can bat too).

May be add Ishant and especially Umesh Yadav. he performs good in Indian conditions.

There might not be any stupid Quota System in India but there definitely is a lot of political intervention in here. Currently I understand that there are almost zero slots in the whole cricket team of India which needs a replacement that is why some cricketers have never gotten enough chances but despite of that some astonishing cricketers like Ambati Raydu and others were never selected in team due to certain political intervention. Moreover may be in cricket you are right, it's a bit less because it can uncover pretty easily with all eyes of media on it but in other sports it's still too much and many sportsman never budded due to this. I know a few sportsman friends they all have suffered from such things.

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Quote from: JSRAW on October 15, 2019, 03:05:17 AM

I am just glad that BCCI doesn't follow this pattern, otherwise Indian cricket is doomed as well. as a matter of fact every citizen of India and every institution (political +social) doesn't want to implement Quota reservation in only 2 Areas. One is Army and Second is Indian Cricket Team.

True. India already faces an insane reservation problem in areas like education etc which is why this is a big relief although corruption is still a big problem in terms of selections and I don't see this problem getting minimized anytime soon.

Quote from: JSRAW on October 15, 2019, 03:05:17 AM

May be add Ishant and especially Umesh Yadav. he performs good in Indian conditions.

Ishant and Umesh never really impressed me to be honest, but they are great bowlers although I would choose Bhuvi over them since I like his variations. Chahal and Kuldeep are also rising up the ranks these days.

JSRAW

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Quote from: Haunebu on October 15, 2019, 02:23:10 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on October 14, 2019, 08:28:39 AM

Cricket South Africa (CSA) is solely responsible for the death of cricket in that country. Their stupid quota system has destroyed the quality of their national team, as well as the domestic cricket in that country. I can understand quota system in education and employment, as I come from India where up to 70% of the seats are reserved based on the caste. But implementing quota system in sports is just ridiculous.

What the heck? Did not know that CSA followed a quota system. Absolutely messed up. Corruption along with this stupid system are probably the primary reasons why many quality South African players are not being given any chances.

Why do you think their Domestic players runs towards other cricketing nations. I am just glad that BCCI doesn't follow this pattern, otherwise Indian cricket is doomed as well. as a matter of fact every citizen of India and every institution (political +social) doesn't want to implement Quota reservation in only 2 Areas. One is Army and Second is Indian Cricket Team.

Quote from: Haunebu on October 15, 2019, 02:23:10 AM

Quote from: JSRAW on October 15, 2019, 01:41:47 AM

Bumrah and Shami along with Ashwin and Jadeja are probably the reasons behind such amazing statistics. I can confidently say that these guys form the best bowling lineup in the Indian team at present(Bonus is the fact that Jadeja and Ashwin can bat too).

May be add Ishant and especially Umesh Yadav. he performs good in Indian conditions.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on October 14, 2019, 08:28:39 AM

Cricket South Africa (CSA) is solely responsible for the death of cricket in that country. Their stupid quota system has destroyed the quality of their national team, as well as the domestic cricket in that country. I can understand quota system in education and employment, as I come from India where up to 70% of the seats are reserved based on the caste. But implementing quota system in sports is just ridiculous.

What the heck? Did not know that CSA followed a quota system. Absolutely messed up. Corruption along with this stupid system are probably the primary reasons why many quality South African players are not being given any chances.

Quote from: JSRAW on October 15, 2019, 01:41:47 AM

Bumrah and Shami along with Ashwin and Jadeja are probably the reasons behind such amazing statistics. I can confidently say that these guys form the best bowling lineup in the Indian team at present(Bonus is the fact that Jadeja and Ashwin can bat too).

JSRAW

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Interesting Statistics as far as World fast bowlers(including Indian pacer too) concern in Indian condition. Only team comes close to India is Australia, Oz name is interesting as well because it was Oz's spin attack who broke the spine of Indian batting line up and won the game in the recent time.

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Amzing, India has shown why they should be considered as one of the best team in the current cricket times. since it's a home series for them but their performance was really outstanding, In every sector, they have dominated over the guest team, I think the development of Indian cricket totally comes in a planned way and domestic cricket has a lot of credit to do so, On the contrary to South African cricket, they are just on the opposite, their domestic cricket is not well-shaped and they can't produce new talent players who could replace their age players, one thing this is mentionable that the flavour of test is not going well in recent time so this reason is also responsible to their poor performance in India. hope to see a good condition of South African cricket.

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Quote from: ene1980 on October 14, 2019, 06:33:58 PM

Quote from: Indymoney on October 14, 2019, 03:30:25 PM

Right now biggest problem for South Africa is their domestic system is not producing good players like these because of too many internal problems like white black issue is one of biggest right now and they have not strong and good system like Australia or England which is biggest failure in my view.

There must be a reason for the domestic system to deprive of talents, either people are not interesting in taking cricket as a career or the salary a cricketer gets is not that great, if you have mandatory reservation for players rather than their skills it will also impact a fair process and the culmination of bad policies might be the reason for this situation, South Africa used to produced exceptional talents to world cricket and now they struggle to find good talents is surprising.

South Africa is still producing exceptional talent. But the problem is that they are playing for the other countries and are refusing to represent SA. One player who got much attention from the media lately is Marnus Labuschagne. A while back, almost half of the English team was made up of Kolpak players, such as Tom Curran, Matt Prior, Jason Roy, Andrew Strauss, Kevin Pietersen, Jonathan Trott.etc

The same is the case with New Zealand as well. In fact, a few years back there was even a debate whether the NZ South Africans XI will be able to defeat the rest of the New Zealand team. More than a dozen South African cricketers have shifted to NZ, including BJ Watling, Colin Munro, Glenn Phillips and Neil Wagner. And it started with Grant Elliott (now retired).

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Quote from: teosanru on October 14, 2019, 12:08:06 PM

Quote from: 7788bitcoin on October 13, 2019, 02:52:39 PM

Quote from: teosanru on October 13, 2019, 01:23:02 PM

I think South Africa's biggest problem is the bowling department. India have very cleverly constructed batting pitches and have a great batting lineup thus they always try to put up a great total in the first innings.

If it was a batting pitch then you show the weakness in the South African batting line up as they are not able to score runs, only Philander and Maharaj proved that the pitch does not have any demons to throw away the wickets like that and the problem with the bowling is that they always tour subcontinent wickets with no quality spinners and then you do not expect to win matches with average players.

The thing is that South African team does not has any quality spinners. Best spinner from South Africa I last remember was Imraan Taahir and he has retired so South Africa's best bid was Keshav Maharaj Only. Moreover, every pitch in the sub continent is a batting pitch until you have a squad with good bowling. I think South Africa tried to beat India with their strength which is Pace bowling and it turned out that Pace bowling had almost zero effect on Indian team.

Quote from: Sithara007 on October 13, 2019, 07:54:07 PM

Quote from: 7788bitcoin on October 13, 2019, 02:52:39 PM

Quote from: teosanru on October 13, 2019, 01:23:02 PM

I think South Africa's biggest problem is the bowling department. India have very cleverly constructed batting pitches and have a great batting lineup thus they always try to put up a great total in the first innings.

If it was a batting pitch then you show the weakness in the South African batting line up as they are not able to score runs, only Philander and Maharaj proved that the pitch does not have any demons to throw away the wickets like that and the problem with the bowling is that they always tour subcontinent wickets with no quality spinners and then you do not expect to win matches with average players.

The real problem with South Africa is that they can't find replacement for AB de Villiers and Hashim Amla. These two players used to be the backbone of their batting lineup and the new players (Aiden Markram/Theunis de Bruyn) are not able to perform as well as them. And once experienced players such as Faf du Plessis retire, this issue will become even worse.

And I don't agree with the second part of your post. Keshav Maharaj is a very good spin bowler and he has proved this by taking wickets in the pace-friendly tracks in South Africa, NZ and England. He was out of form during the first two matches, but I hope he'll be soon able to pick wickets after acclimatizing with the Indian conditions.

Actually South Africa miserably failed in developing an A-team in almost every department. Each slot can see the lack of experience because they haven't played enough matches.

Lack of experience is a reason, and there is no one to lead it perfect. Between the wickets if a strong partnership is developed the match wouldn't have ended this worse. By the end of the first innings from South Africa it is almost confirmed that India is gonna win the match. At least it is a must win for South Africa in the next match to show their ability.

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Quote from: Indymoney on October 14, 2019, 03:30:25 PM

Right now biggest problem for South Africa is their domestic system is not producing good players like these because of too many internal problems like white black issue is one of biggest right now and they have not strong and good system like Australia or England which is biggest failure in my view.

There must be a reason for the domestic system to deprive of talents, either people are not interesting in taking cricket as a career or the salary a cricketer gets is not that great, if you have mandatory reservation for players rather than their skills it will also impact a fair process and the culmination of bad policies might be the reason for this situation, South Africa used to produced exceptional talents to world cricket and now they struggle to find good talents is surprising.

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Quote from: SaShiRaJaVu on October 14, 2019, 02:17:20 PM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on October 14, 2019, 11:58:13 AM

Well.. you may disagree with me, but Hashim Amla was a world class player who could match the skill set of Steve Smith and Virat Kohli in test cricket. But he never got the accolades and media attraction that both Smith and Kohli received.

I do not disagree with you, to be popular you need to be charismatic and have an appeal to the general public and then only you will get the recognition you are looking for from the media, players like Hashim Amla, Chanderpaul were really great players but they were too gentle to become that popular.

Quote from: bryant.coleman on October 14, 2019, 11:58:13 AM

And it is applicable to the bowlers as well. I would rate Dale Steyn as the best pace bowler the world has seen since the WW2. Unfortunately, he has not received much respect, even from his own countrymen.

To call Dale Steyn the best pace bowler after WW2 means you have to ignore bowlers like Wasim Akram, Malcolm Marshall, Dennis Lillee, Glen Mcgrath, Waqar Younis, Allan Donald and the West Indies bowlers of the 70 and 80, Walsh, Ambrose were incredible as well and many more to add in the list.
Dale Steyn is one of the best pace bowlers in history.

If you agree then I can correct this he is one of best fast bowler after WW2 for South Africa as if we check all list then TBH we have many others more great then Dale Steyn as you already mention.
Right now biggest problem for South Africa is their domestic system is not producing good players like these because of too many internal problems like white black issue is one of biggest right now and they have not strong and good system like Australia or England which is biggest failure in my view.

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on October 14, 2019, 11:58:13 AM

Well.. you may disagree with me, but Hashim Amla was a world class player who could match the skill set of Steve Smith and Virat Kohli in test cricket. But he never got the accolades and media attraction that both Smith and Kohli received.

I do not disagree with you, to be popular you need to be charismatic and have an appeal to the general public and then only you will get the recognition you are looking for from the media, players like Hashim Amla, Chanderpaul were really great players but they were too gentle to become that popular.

Quote from: bryant.coleman on October 14, 2019, 11:58:13 AM

And it is applicable to the bowlers as well. I would rate Dale Steyn as the best pace bowler the world has seen since the WW2. Unfortunately, he has not received much respect, even from his own countrymen.

To call Dale Steyn the best pace bowler after WW2 means you have to ignore bowlers like Wasim Akram, Malcolm Marshall, Dennis Lillee, Glen Mcgrath, Waqar Younis, Allan Donald and the West Indies bowlers of the 70 and 80, Walsh, Ambrose were incredible as well and many more to add in the list.
Dale Steyn is one of the best pace bowlers in history.

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Quote from: 7788bitcoin on October 13, 2019, 02:52:39 PM

Quote from: teosanru on October 13, 2019, 01:23:02 PM

I think South Africa's biggest problem is the bowling department. India have very cleverly constructed batting pitches and have a great batting lineup thus they always try to put up a great total in the first innings.

If it was a batting pitch then you show the weakness in the South African batting line up as they are not able to score runs, only Philander and Maharaj proved that the pitch does not have any demons to throw away the wickets like that and the problem with the bowling is that they always tour subcontinent wickets with no quality spinners and then you do not expect to win matches with average players.

The thing is that South African team does not has any quality spinners. Best spinner from South Africa I last remember was Imraan Taahir and he has retired so South Africa's best bid was Keshav Maharaj Only. Moreover, every pitch in the sub continent is a batting pitch until you have a squad with good bowling. I think South Africa tried to beat India with their strength which is Pace bowling and it turned out that Pace bowling had almost zero effect on Indian team.

Quote from: Sithara007 on October 13, 2019, 07:54:07 PM

Quote from: 7788bitcoin on October 13, 2019, 02:52:39 PM

Quote from: teosanru on October 13, 2019, 01:23:02 PM

I think South Africa's biggest problem is the bowling department. India have very cleverly constructed batting pitches and have a great batting lineup thus they always try to put up a great total in the first innings.

If it was a batting pitch then you show the weakness in the South African batting line up as they are not able to score runs, only Philander and Maharaj proved that the pitch does not have any demons to throw away the wickets like that and the problem with the bowling is that they always tour subcontinent wickets with no quality spinners and then you do not expect to win matches with average players.

The real problem with South Africa is that they can't find replacement for AB de Villiers and Hashim Amla. These two players used to be the backbone of their batting lineup and the new players (Aiden Markram/Theunis de Bruyn) are not able to perform as well as them. And once experienced players such as Faf du Plessis retire, this issue will become even worse.

And I don't agree with the second part of your post. Keshav Maharaj is a very good spin bowler and he has proved this by taking wickets in the pace-friendly tracks in South Africa, NZ and England. He was out of form during the first two matches, but I hope he'll be soon able to pick wickets after acclimatizing with the Indian conditions.

Actually South Africa miserably failed in developing an A-team in almost every department. Each slot can see the lack of experience because they haven't played enough matches.

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Quote from: SaShiRaJaVu on October 14, 2019, 08:31:36 AM

Quote from: JSRAW on October 14, 2019, 08:06:04 AM

Tbh for me from 90s to mid 2000ish was golden time. We had so many Legends in the Test Cricket.

The introduction of T20 introduced many flashy players in world cricket and now majority of the teams have great players who can play different shots but to play cricket you need to have a solid defense and concentration and patience for a long period of time and it is hard to find players who could excel in the longer format and every team is struggling in that aspect. In the past we had many legendary players in the test format but now we have Smith and Kohli who plays consistent innings other than that i could not find many players.

Though SA have lost this 3 match series but still we have 3rd test match left and it is still 4 more days to go. I think some changes would be done in the SA team and they would like to either win it or draw the test match atleast and would not like to have a white wash.

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Quote from: SaShiRaJaVu on October 14, 2019, 08:31:36 AM

Quote from: JSRAW on October 14, 2019, 08:06:04 AM

Tbh for me from 90s to mid 2000ish was golden time. We had so many Legends in the Test Cricket.

The introduction of T20 introduced many flashy players in world cricket and now majority of the teams have great players who can play different shots but to play cricket you need to have a solid defense and concentration and patience for a long period of time and it is hard to find players who could excel in the longer format and every team is struggling in that aspect. In the past we had many legendary players in the test format but now we have Smith and Kohli who plays consistent innings other than that i could not find many players.

Well.. you may disagree with me, but Hashim Amla was a world class player who could match the skill set of Steve Smith and Virat Kohli in test cricket. But he never got the accolades and media attraction that both Smith and Kohli received. Shivnarine Chanderpaul was another such player, who was suitable for test cricket. In case of Chanderpaul, he received very harsh treatment from the selectors (probably because of his race and his openness about his religion). It is the way modern cricket works. Test cricketers are not given the praise they deserve. Most of the fans would go crazy after T20 specialists such as Kieron Pollard, Andre Russell and Chris Gayle. But classy test players are not in much demand.

And it is applicable to the bowlers as well. I would rate Dale Steyn as the best pace bowler the world has seen since the WW2. Unfortunately, he has not received much respect, even from his own countrymen.

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Quote from: JSRAW on October 14, 2019, 08:06:04 AM

Tbh for me from 90s to mid 2000ish was golden time. We had so many Legends in the Test Cricket.

The introduction of T20 introduced many flashy players in world cricket and now majority of the teams have great players who can play different shots but to play test cricket you need to have a solid defense and concentration and patience for a long period of time and it is hard to find players who could excel in the longer format and every team is struggling in that aspect. In the past we had many legendary players in the test format but now we have Smith and Kohli who plays consistent innings other than that i could not find many players.

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Cricket South Africa (CSA) is solely responsible for the death of cricket in that country. Their stupid quota system has destroyed the quality of their national team, as well as the domestic cricket in that country. I can understand quota system in education and employment, as I come from India where up to 70% of the seats are reserved based on the caste. But implementing quota system in sports is just ridiculous.

And take a look at those who have benefited from this quota system. Kagiso Rabada got his selection for the first time to the national team in 2015, thanks to this quota system. Ironically, Rabada hails from a very influential family and studied at one of the premier educational institutions in South Africa. Now how can someone justify the selectors giving priority to this guy over some white guy just because of his race?

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Quote from: Haunebu on October 14, 2019, 03:56:06 AM

Quote from: JSRAW on October 14, 2019, 02:58:03 AM

Is it a sarcasm regarding Team Selection... Don't know.

~Edited out~

This does feel sarcastic. Did not expect Gibbs to speak in such a manner. Embarrassing that they cannot accept their failure. The fact is that drastic changes are required if they wish to stay relevant in International Cricket.

I think his sarcastic tone is directed towards South African selection system.

Quote from: 7788bitcoin on October 14, 2019, 05:37:36 AM

~Edited out~
and if India tours South Africa in the near future they will white wash them in their home ground as India does have a lethal fast bowling line up.

India was suppose to win the last series there with at least 2-1 but Virat and Shastri did many blunders with selection despite having strong team but this time i am hoping for different outcome.

Topic: Test Cricket Prediction and Discussion Thread [self - mod] - page 1111. (Read 167601 times)