Topic: Test for free our new futures exchange, and get paid bitcoin! - page 2. (Read 1080 times)

One problem with both exchanges mentioned is that, at least as far as I am aware of, your position can be auto-deleveraged at a price that is totally unrelated to the current orderbook. So the exchanges can have "glitches" and all the profit from a position are simply gone, and you may even lose money!

I find that totally unacceptable, and this is not what happens in our exchange. If you have a long position, and the last price before the crash is $34,000, you may get your position auto-deleveraged, but we'll always close your position at a price higher than $34,000. While it may well be that prices rise to $40,000 and higher later on and you don't get the full profits you might expect, at the moment we crashed we could not have possibly known that, and so we cannot "conveniently" crash to deny profits to our users.

In many other exchanges, if someone with a highly-leveraged position is lucky to close its position before the auto-deleverage triggers (maybe by having set a limit order previously), they can get away with their profits while the othere who are not so lucky get their profits stolen from them or even see their trades become negative. So I don't quite think the these two exchanges are hurting their users on purpose, I just think their system are not very well designed. And honestly I can totally understand them, as solving this problem requires having the liquidation/auto-deleverage process running synchronously with the matching engine, which is quite hard to do! It took months of effort for us to get it working, and we have carefully considered this problem from the beginning!


I think you may be right. We'll be experimenting with having the balance on the top. This leaves more space in the position panel, and this may let us show the PnL of the position in real time!


Thanks for the positive feedback! Please come back and trade more

After i register i spent some time to see funcionality and tabs for trading, assets etc. From my point of view platform runs good. Visual is fine, functions runs without problems. Need more time to put detailed opinion, write what should mention you could change, make better, user friendly and so on. Not bad for first day usage.

No, your question is a great one!

Auto-deleverage is bad, no questions about it, but it is also inevitable in leveraged trading. The best that we can do is make it very unlikely.

Let me give you an example. Suppose we have two users, one buys 1BTC with 100x leverage (with 0.01 BTC as margin), and another sells 1BTC with 100 leverage (also with 0.01 BTC as margin). If there are no other users and BTC price rises 1%, the user with the short position will be liquidated, and we'll have to close the long position at this price. So the buyer will get 0.02 BTC, doubling his money, but won't get anything more than that, simply because there is no money available in the system!

Of course, the exchange itself can pay up for the difference, and that is what an insurance fund is for, but even so the insurance fund may run out and an auto-deleverage may happen. So an insurance fund can at most make auto-deleverages less common.


Good idea! Added to the TODO list.


You are right, we should shutdown gracefully if we have a bug (instead of crashing). We'll add that to our TODO list.


We'll investigate this bug. Also, we have in our TODO list already to improve these popup messages. Currently this only means that we received your request, but your order may not have actually been created successfully. What happens if you try to close the position again?


Yes, this is intended. We only have one open position per market per user, so if you trade with different leverage the position adds up all the margin. Maybe we can do better than that. Would you prefer your positions to be handled (and potentially liquidated) separately? (This would not be easy to change, so I don't promise it will happen anytime soon).


That is weird. Can you send us a picture?


We'll process your withdraw today

@dkbit98, I'll write a detailed answer to your post and edit here later!

I can imagine scenario when you could profit a lot with your trade but ''conveniently'' website crashes and you don't earn anything.
This is not so hard to imagine because I think that both Bitmex and Binance had this ''glitches'' before.

I just returned interface to it's original state but I think it's better to remove deposit and withdrawal box and move it to top menu.
Balance could also be seen on top or tab instead of using the box, but you could make this change optional and users can choose what they like more.

Yeah I noticed notifications and other updates and it works fine so far.

I've never seen a service that preemptively crashes when something goes wrong. I could imagine shutting it down, but crashing doesn't seem right as a solution.

When I close a Position, the popup shows: "order created successfully!.". And nothing changes.
I placed 3 orders, each with different Leverage. Still a n00b here, but I would have expected them all to show up onder Positions. It seems they're added together, is that as intended?

Update: I closed the browser tab and opened it again. Now the site is back to the previous layout (with my Assets on the left), and without the overview of open Positions. Are you updating things right now, or did something go wrong?

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My (test) withdrawal is Approved, but not processed.

Is it also possible to have an option to instantly close the order than first having the pop up box and then confirming.

I really thought that my question was a stupid one. Another question I have is regarding this auto-deleveraging system, isn't that kind of interfering with the users decisions? Don't get me wrong, I see the point of doing that but I think the users who do do high-leverage knows what they are doing I guess.

Yes, it did crash again! We have a very conservative mindset regarding errors, and we'll crash preemptively whenever anything appears to be wrong. In this case, a validation check in the liquidation engine pointed to a bug when it was liquidating your position. You had a short position that was paying funding because of negative funding payments, and these payments should have gradually decreased your liquidation price, but these was a bug on this update, and your position was liquidated later than it should have been.

We tested our liquidation system extensively, but infortunately the funding payments have clearly not been tested enough. It took several hours, but we finally got it working again. I'm sorry for the inconvenience! Please try again, we also have new features now!


Hi Arthur! Thanks for the feedback! We'll work on that. It should let you know that we are waiting for the email confirmation

It is also great that you are experimenting on mobile. The mobile version has not been tested as much, so your feedback will be very important!


Nice to see you noticed our changes, we are trying to make improve the user experience! If there is anything that you don't like, please let us know. Also, if you think you made a better panel by resizing and changing the order of the components, please share an image here with us!

Please check our new features: we now have notifications icons on the Orders, Trades and Positions tabs. So for instance, whenever you make a new trade you will see a notification for the trade and the update in your position.


Great question. Yes, we will always have enough bitcoins to pay any profits! However, like most other futures exchanges, we do have an auto-deleverage system. This means that, if you open a 100x long position and price rises too much too fast, causing short positions to be liquidated, and if there is not enough liquidity on the book to close short positions, long positions with highest leverage may be forced to close their positions.

During auto-deleverage, our positions are always closed at a price between the bid/ask. Some other exchanges have badly designed auto-deleverage mechanisms that close positions are a price unrelated to the current orderbook -- this is sometimes called a 'clawback'. We don't do anything like that.

So positions will be usually closed at fair prices (or even better than usual prices if the liquidating positions caused some slippage). If prices move suddenly, though, or if prices move during an exchange outage, highly-leveraged positions may see smaller profits than what one might expect.

For example if you buy bitcoin with high-leverage at $35,000, current price is $36,000 and price start going up really fast and there is no liquidity to liquidate short position, at some point (maybe if it hits $40,000) you may see your position closed automatically at a profit. It price keeps rising after that, you may be disappointed later that your position was closed. But if the prices falls back after that, so you may even be glad we closed your position for you!

Even so, we'll have an insurance fund in the future to prevent auto-deleverage events from happening.

I have a question, what if there's a whim of chance that someone hit the 100x in your leverage with the mBtc that you have provided, do you have enough bitcoin to cover the cost? Because as you have said in your thread, you are just a start up website.

Anyone noticed that something is now changed in TickSpread website interface or this is just happening to me?
I see that everything is modular and my window for open orders, my trades and my positions is now on the left side, and windows with balance, deposits and withdrawals moved to the right side of screen.
Maybe there are more changes but good thing is that I can change that, resize windows and make any window order I like.

Hie Kelvin this seems to be an interesting platform. It's much easier to navigate but am not sure if am the only one experiencing this on mobile.
- when I create an order limit it's saying order successfully created but when I go to my orders the is nothing created or any pending trades.
- Also when signing up for an account I think after completing all the details it should pop up a notification 🔔 to check my email for confirmation.
I actually thought my account hadn't gone through until I had to check my mail ✉ box.

Lol, I did what?
I just tried to Place an Order, and once again got:
I hope it didn't crash again. My withdrawal amount is now Frozen. It could be I didn't click the final "Are you sure" after clicking the confirmation link in my email, I didn't expect that button and I had to scroll down to find it.

If you don't have enough bitcoin the withdraw will fail after you confirm in your email. In the future withdraws will be mostly automatic (except for very large ones or if our small hot wallet runs out of money).


You triggered an UI bug that crashed our system! Of course we should never crash no matter what messages the user sends us. Both the UI bug and the system crashing because of it are now fixed. We had downtime of about two hours unfortunately and any open ordens you might had were cancelled.


Fixed some of the bugs: you can now click in the orderbook to set limit price. Also closing the position with the button should be working fine now.

Other bugs are in the todo list that I'm updating in the original post, thanks for the feedback!

Sent you 0.3 mBTC

I'm able to reproduce the market order server error. Also, it might be contains more bugs.

On my side, sometimes, my active/filled order doesn't automatically listed on the My Position, it only gets added after I'm refreshing the page.

Another thing is when I just successfully make an order, then immediately close my position, It doesn't close my position instead whenever I clicking the button it just makes a new order.

Furthermore, I notice on the withdrawal page if I hover the date on the withdrawal history, it shows the timedate of the withdrawal right? The problem is if I hover it, the whole text table position is adjusted, it might be good if you just adjust the withdrawal time text instead of the whole table.

Also, when I switch to the Limit order, the price input is empty. I tried to click the price on the order book, but the price doesn't automatically inputted. The price I click only showing if I switch to market layout then reswitching to the limit order again.

I just barely know that, did I missed that or you just implemented it.

That seems nice little detail, +1

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BTW, here is my address: bc1qelru52aa66fthgk4cmu7z366rxv0xazaykq6m4  

Now that you explain it, it makes sense.
I Market Order, and when I try to close the Position I get:
In retrospect, it doesn't make much sense.

This would be nice indeed.

I did

This didn't happen. I'll try again when the site works again.

New market orders are working fine for me and I received my pending withdrawal that was probably manually done, so the question is would withdrawals in future with real Bitcoin also be manual or automatic?
And what happens in situation if you don't have enough Bitcoin for withdrawal? Maybe there should be some proof of funds with reserve addresses or something similar.