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Topic: The altcoin topic everyone wants to sweep under the rug - page 7. (Read 24383 times)

legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
I don't know what any particular country does, but the idea of countries claiming jurisdiction over those doing business with their own residents, even if the business is located elsewhere is not unique to the US. It is very widespread if not nearly universal. Most countries would not stand up to the US over this not only because the US is powerful and gets away with laws like FACTA and strongarming everyone into MLATs, but just because they want the same powers for themselves. US companies have been on the receiving end here in several high profile cases and probably many smaller ones.

Any nation with rudimentary securities regulation will have issues with crypto-scams offering a quasi-legal boiler-room prospectus like this one:

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html

or an elevator pitch like these:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14418341
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za7JxaSYfQQ

(Sucks to see Amanda jump the shark so quickly.  Her show could have done better than suffering Certain D000M as The DailyDash.  She could have been a contender.   Sad)
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
I don't know what any particular country does, but the idea of countries claiming jurisdiction over those doing business with their own residents, even if the business is located elsewhere is not unique to the US. It is very widespread if not nearly universal. Most countries would not stand up to the US over this not only because the US is powerful and gets away with laws like FACTA and strongarming everyone into MLATs, but just because they want the same powers for themselves. US companies have been on the receiving end here in several high profile cases and probably many smaller ones.



sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250

Unfortunately the person who wrote that doesn't have the knowledge to understand. Let me explain.

I'd prefer to have no securities regulation law.  In order to not end up with such laws, then we must be able to police our own community. If we can't do that, the public will demand laws.

Laws exist because of a power vacuum. That means that the collective is powerless to stop the hurtful activity, thus someone must step into the vacuum and take control. Thus voila! Government. Laws.

We do it to ourselves because we have criminal mindsets amongst us who prefer to hurt others to get what they want, than to help others to get what they want.

You mean to say people from US are enlightened with the wisdom, the rest of the world are dumb? Read his post again.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262

Unfortunately the person who wrote that doesn't have the knowledge to understand. Let me explain.

I'd prefer to have no securities regulation law.  In order to not end up with such laws, then we must be able to police our own community. If we can't do that, the public will demand laws.

Laws exist because of a power vacuum. That means that the collective is powerless to stop the hurtful activity, thus someone must step into the vacuum and take control. Thus voila! Government. Laws.

We do it to ourselves because we have criminal mindsets amongst us who prefer to hurt others to get what they want, than to help others to get what they want.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
As I warned you, the countries will be pushed towards cooperating against financial crime:

http://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/apr/03/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-panama-papers

The globalists are destroying the nation-states on purpose and inciting the masses to clamor for a global discipline on malfeasance. I've known for a long time this would be coming. One thing you will learn about me by observing me over time is my ability to predict the future. For example was my 2011 prediction that the nations would not exit the EU and instead would double-down for more sloppy seconds.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
I recently answered on another thread:

Anyone who bought Dash on the basis, in whole or part, of misleading statements from Evan or the others and then lost money has been scammed.

Prime among those are the ones to whom the instaminers dumped their coins during the initial pump up to 0.0267, a price which has not be reached again in two years. That not only funded the project, it likely put a long of money straight into insiders' pockets. Subsequent pumps and prices inflated by continued double-talk and spin from Evan and others have only added to their ranks.


But smooth, "We're adults therefore any lies that we accept as true (even if advertised) are the fault of our not researching enough (even if developers are actively telling us otherwise), thus scams are impossible"--said the man before being convicted of securities fraud.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
There is no concrete evidence that Eduardo DeCastro = iCEBREAKER. I've asked before to people to provide evidence, but like I said, I haven't seen anything concrete yet. Until then, it is a mere allegation.

You are the only fair and balanced Monero Dev I am aware of, so what`s your take on the "concrete evidence" regarding the accusations that Evan has scammed anyone? Do you think he should be on that list?

Those who lost funds to Mt Gox did so on their own volition, including the Mt Gox Terms of Service which I assume had the necessary legal disclaimers about culpability for theft. Does that mean the investors weren't scammed?

Those who invest in a token on their own volition, inherently expect that the market for those tokens is not manipulated by the insiders controlling the float by having a scam scheme to control > 50% of the tokens in existence. Satoshi controls maybe at most 1% of the Bitcoins that will be in existence.

Criminals find clever ways to obscure their crimes such as your Dash accomplice semantic slime quoted above, but that still doesn't make them legal. IANAL but I am reasonably certain that Evan and the unnamed insiders have broken the laws that the SEC and FinCEN are tasked to enforce.

[...]

You can't just say you want more rights, when that means injuring others, because injuring others is not a right.

It has been elaborated in other threads that premines/ICOs/instamines are the antithesis of non-maniluated, permissionless, decentralized systems.



I'm still under the weather unable to digest posts fully, but feel that the OP may need be amended to reflect both sentiments.

I just don't see how pretending to not have committed scams can be tolerated. It would be different if Evan stopped lying about intentionally doing the instamine instead of claiming it was an accident which I have explained is implausible because every lead developer will be monitoring his coin carefully on launch to see the coins are being issued at the correct rate. It doesn't take hours to make that determination. Also dEBRUYNE has provided quotes of Evan as additional evidence that he is lying.

If Evan stopped trying to obscure the fact that he intentionally set up a way to control the float and > 50% of the tokens, then we could say that investors have full disclosure and thus if they are scammed it is on their own FULLY INFORMED volition.

Until Evan makes FULL DISCLOSURE of the truth, then he is scammer. There is no other valid sentiment.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
Great for you that you feel you can hide from modern civilization in Belarus.

Meanwhile most developers (a.k.a. ICO "issuers") and promoters (a.k.a. "broker dealers") live in the G20 and thus will be subject to SEC prosecution due to the announced cooperation of the G20 to go after financial crimes.

It's not about hiding, it's about having more rights.

PS: The USA anthem with its "the land of the free" always reminds me


So you advocate them selling investment securities in an opaque market without full disclosures and allowing non-accredited investors to buy your very risky stage speculations. But society has decided it is better to have full disclosure and to prevent non-accredited investors from speculating with their lunch money in order to have a better functioning society. Same as society has decided that prosecuting crack dealers is better for society. If you want more rights, then don't task the government with doing what we should do ethically. Otherwise there is no recourse for society other than to hand that regulatory power to the government, which as we know leads to corruption (all power corrupts absolutely).

You can't just say you want more rights, when that means injuring others, because injuring others is not a right.

It has been elaborated in other threads that premines/ICOs/instamines are the antithesis of non-maniluated, permissionless, decentralized systems.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
Cross-referencing and wondering why no one wants to rationally discuss this topic?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/which-crypto-coins-are-investment-securities-implications-1218269

Mostly because this forum is full of teenagers and irrational people.  Hard to have a rational discussion.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
@TPTB_need_war, I'm switching into more intense work mode, so I won't have time to reply to your posts. To finish the last unfinished convo: I find your posts about Europe (Belarus particularly) and superiority of USA and its laws too racist and very close to extremism. I think you should be stopped before it's too late, so if I see that this issue progresses I'll report you to your local authorities (not for punishment, but for taking you under a closer control). Your sort of mindset and intolerance can escalate into really destructive behavior. Nothing personal, take care and use your chance for the last word.

Some people don't seem to know the definition of 'racisim' and conflate it with 'nationalism' or 'patriotism'. They also seem to lack reading comprehension (at least of the English language). I wrote upthread that the G20 had pledged to coorperate to enforce each others' laws on financial crimes. Someone seems to conflate a mutual respect for each nations' laws as stating the USA is dominating the other members of the G20. If anything, it it the old world banksters from Europe and London such as the Rothschilds who are controlling the USA.

So the ethnic Russian totalitarian developer of IOTA threatens to report me to authorities to attempt to violate my free speech rights.  Roll Eyes

Why not just inject me with some plutonium with the tip of an umbrella; would be more efficient.

I hope readers are paying attention to nefarious actors we have here in cryptoland. And to the danger of being murdered or otherwise attacked personally simply for attempting to share the facts on the law that is. And for calling out scams and the criminal mindset of a small subset of the population (apparently a large percentage of which live in countries behind the former Iron Curtain where ostensibly corruption is the norm and is apparently engrained in the culture).
member
Activity: 60
Merit: 10
What's up with this TPTB guy? It's like he's slowly getting crazier and crazier. What's his IQ again?
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
@TPTB_need_war, I'm switching into more intense work mode, so I won't have time to reply to your posts. To finish the last unfinished convo: I find your posts about Europe (Belarus particularly) and superiority of USA and its laws too racist and very close to extremism. I think you should be stopped before it's too late, so if I see that this issue progresses I'll report you to your local authorities (not for punishment, but for taking you under a closer control). Your sort of mindset and intolerance can escalate into really destructive behavior. Nothing personal, take care and use your chance for the last word.
legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 1050
Monero Core Team
...

Great for you that you feel you can hide from modern civilization in Belarus.

Meanwhile most developers (a.k.a. ICO "issuers") and promoters (a.k.a. "broker dealers") live in the G20 and thus will be subject to SEC prosecution due to the announced cooperation of the G20 to go after financial crimes.

Replace SEC with FinCEN and I will agree with you.

Edit: Many ICOs are not securities; however the fact that they are not securities does not make them legal.
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
Great for you that you feel you can hide from modern civilization in Belarus.

Meanwhile most developers (a.k.a. ICO "issuers") and promoters (a.k.a. "broker dealers") live in the G20 and thus will be subject to SEC prosecution due to the announced cooperation of the G20 to go after financial crimes.

It's not about hiding, it's about having more rights.

PS: The USA anthem with its "the land of the free" always reminds me

sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
Start collecting the list of pumper accomplices that will be going to jail:

Good idea. Looks like noone really pays attention to your words so few guys successfully convicted should add some weight. If I were you I would start from CFB to prove that USA jurisdiction is omnipotent (it's one of your wet dreams IIRC - global domination of the US).

Great for you that you feel you can hide from modern civilization in Belarus.

Meanwhile most developers (a.k.a. ICO "issuers") and promoters (a.k.a. "broker dealers") live in the G20 and thus will be subject to SEC prosecution due to the announced cooperation of the G20 to go after financial crimes.
member
Activity: 80
Merit: 10
I like Ethereum and Rimbit
So legally, in your (anyone and everyone!) country, is there a difference between:-

a) buying into the shares of Company X, hoping that they will double in value or
b) buying into Company X's crypto currency hoping that they will double in value?



 
  
 
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
Start collecting the list of pumper accomplices that will be going to jail:

Good idea. Looks like noone really pays attention to your words so few guys successfully convicted should add some weight. If I were you I would start from CFB to prove that USA jurisdiction is omnipotent (it's one of your wet dreams IIRC - global domination of the US).
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
Start collecting the list of pumper accomplices that will be going to jail:

Has Evan "substantially ripped off" anyone in order to be in a list where actual scammers that stole people's money are in?

The unethical slights-of-hand legalese criminal minds make.

Bill Clinton said, "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement....Now, if someone had asked me on that day, are you having any kind of sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky, that is, asked me a question in the present tense, I would have said no. And it would have been completely true.".

Of course Evan and his accomplices such as yourself have succeeded in defrauding those who bought the P&D when the price rose to nosebleed levels and then crashed. The P&D that was enabled by insiders controlling the float through this shell game, thus able to buy DRK from themselves pushing the price, market cap, and volume up to nosebleed levels which fooled the naive.

Come on, don't think you can get away with that shit with me. Slime-ball AlexGR you are out-of-league trying to debate me. You will lose.

https://www.sec.gov/investor/alerts/ia_virtualcurrencies.pdf

Any investment in securities in
the United states remains subject to the jurisdiction
of the seC regardless of whether the investment is made
in U.s. dollars or a virtual currency.
In particular,
individuals selling investments are typically subject
to federal or state licensing requirements.

Recent SEC enforcement actions demonstrate there are serious consequences for acting as an unregistered broker, even where there are no allegations of fraud.

 Common Scenario with Risks

The broker-dealer registration issue commonly arises when a company or private investment fund raises capital from investors in a private (unregistered) securities offering using its own employees or third party “finders” to locate investors. When these individuals solicit investors on a regular basis or are specifically compensated for their efforts, they may be required to register as a broker or to be associated with a registered broker-dealer firm.

A company or individual acting as an unregistered broker-dealer is in violation of applicable registration requirements and faces possible government enforcement action, monetary penalties and investor lawsuits seeking rescission of the investment and recovery of the purchase price paid. Registering as a broker-dealer is a significant undertaking and will subject the firm to extensive regulation by the SEC, Financial Industry Regulatory Authority (FINRA) and/or state securities regulators. It is normally not a practical alternative for companies engaged in limited or infrequent capital raising activities.

Who is a Broker-Dealer?

The test for broker registration is broad and depends on the particular facts and circumstances. The principal factors the SEC considers include whether the person (1) actively solicited investors, (2) advised investors as to the merits of an investment, (3) regularly participated in securities transactions and (4) received commissions or transaction-based remuneration.

 Finders Exemption. It is generally thought that persons who do nothing more than introduce prospective investors to the issuer, do not participate in negotiating the transaction, and who receive compensation not dependent on or related to the purchase of a security are “finders,” not “brokers,” and are not required to be registered. While a few no-action letters support this position, the SEC has been reluctant to create a “finder’s exemption.”

The SEC has cautioned that persons who find investors for issuers, even in a “consultant” capacity, may need to register as a broker depending on a number of factors, including whether (1) the finder participates in the solicitation, negotiation or execution of the transaction, (2) compensation is related to the outcome or size of the transaction, (3) the finder is otherwise engaged in the business of effecting securities transactions and (4) the finder handles securities or funds of others. A “yes” answer to any of these factors indicates that registration may be required.
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