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Topic: The Barry Silbert segwit2x agreement with >80% miner support. - page 50. (Read 120030 times)

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legendary
Activity: 4088
Merit: 1631
Ruu \o/
so asicboost is "crushing" the opposition by gaining them a rip roaring 1% in profits! Woohoo, kill the bastards!!!

Wth man... You made the math yourself and found out that %1 of the total hashpower MAY be being stolen and you are actually fine with it.

There is no small thieves or big thieves. Thievery is thievery.
Wow, just wow. Pools fluctuate by up to 20% per day regularly and you're making 1% a big deal? The reddittors have been claiming 30% hashrate improvement and I've been telling you that's bupkiss. And I said no, I DON'T believe they're doing it anyway, but that's fine. If your mindset is so fixed that you can't see how absurd your logic is getting then I'm wasting my breath.
legendary
Activity: 3276
Merit: 2442
so asicboost is "crushing" the opposition by gaining them a rip roaring 1% in profits! Woohoo, kill the bastards!!!

Wth man... You made the math yourself and found out that %1 of the total hashpower MAY be being stolen and you are actually fine with it.

There is no small thieves or big thieves. Thievery is thievery.
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legendary
Activity: 4088
Merit: 1631
Ruu \o/

Well it appears you didn't even read my post then. I assume you're proud of that too?

Nope, I REDDIT.  Cheesy

You basically said that you don't believe they are using ASICBOOST and if they did, you would know it.

Great.

Now we have to take your word for Jihan is not cheating. Meh. Not convinced a bit.
Okay let's look at this the other way then. Let's say Jihan the cunt IS using asicboost. Okay? Still with me?

Now if you do an analysis of the power savings provided by asicboost (it does not increase hashrate, it saves power) then if we assume bitmain owns 500PH of current generation S9 mining hardware, then the yearly savings in power amounts to approximately $2M USD (credit to Guy Corem for doing maths). This is the 500PH that is producing say 180 BTC per day, or ~$500,000 USD per day.
Great, so asicboost is "crushing" the opposition by gaining them a rip roaring 1% in profits! Woohoo, kill the bastards!!!
legendary
Activity: 3276
Merit: 2442

Well it appears you didn't even read my post then. I assume you're proud of that too?

Nope, I REDDIT.  Cheesy

You basically said that you don't believe they are using ASICBOOST and if they did, you would know it.

Great.

Now we have to take your word for Jihan is not cheating. Meh. Not convinced a bit.
-ck
legendary
Activity: 4088
Merit: 1631
Ruu \o/
How we get here was itself problematic. How can a group of miners use a patented software on their hardware in an open source project while the other miners cannot?

Isn't this unfair to the other miners?
It's been discussed to death and the results of meaningful statistics largely ignored. This is again the reddit effect I'm afraid. Miners have never used the overt feature which leaves a trail and there is no evidence of them having used the covert feature though it theoretically could be possible to hide it well enough for it to not be spotted. Since I know the quality of code from bitmain, I can guarantee you they're not smart enough to be doing the latter. Additionally, and this is the one thing most people neglect, is that the profits from trying to build in use of the covert feature would be pitifully small compared to the overall profits of mining in the first place making using covert asicboost not worth the effort required to do so. An unfair advantage? Yes I agree it is inappropriate IF USED, which it isn't, and if it led to some massive profits, which it doesn't. The emphasis on it as though it's the reason bitmain is blocking segwit is marketing in my opinion. This is coming from me, a segwit advocate, but I also happen to be informed about the mining world.

How can you ignore the fact that it is that patented software creates the miner monopoly. There isn't a single company other than bitmain which sells their products to home miners! Because Bitmain will crush them instantly with their ASICBOOST!


Yes i read reddit a lot and i'm proud of it.

Well it appears you didn't even read my post then. I assume you're proud of that too?
legendary
Activity: 3276
Merit: 2442
How we get here was itself problematic. How can a group of miners use a patented software on their hardware in an open source project while the other miners cannot?

Isn't this unfair to the other miners?
It's been discussed to death and the results of meaningful statistics largely ignored. This is again the reddit effect I'm afraid. Miners have never used the overt feature which leaves a trail and there is no evidence of them having used the covert feature though it theoretically could be possible to hide it well enough for it to not be spotted. Since I know the quality of code from bitmain, I can guarantee you they're not smart enough to be doing the latter. Additionally, and this is the one thing most people neglect, is that the profits from trying to build in use of the covert feature would be pitifully small compared to the overall profits of mining in the first place making using covert asicboost not worth the effort required to do so. An unfair advantage? Yes I agree it is inappropriate IF USED, which it isn't, and if it led to some massive profits, which it doesn't. The emphasis on it as though it's the reason bitmain is blocking segwit is marketing in my opinion. This is coming from me, a segwit advocate, but I also happen to be informed about the mining world.

How can you ignore the fact that it is that patented software creates the miner monopoly. There isn't a single company other than bitmain which sells their products to home miners! Because Bitmain will crush them instantly with their ASICBOOST!

Those who produce miners for themselves are also melting away with every day! For ex. Bitfury.

This PoW algo is pure garbage and we need to get rid of it. I believe that, many believe that. You don't? Well you can.

Yes i read reddit a lot and i'm proud of it.
-ck
legendary
Activity: 4088
Merit: 1631
Ruu \o/
How we get here was itself problematic. How can a group of miners use a patented software on their hardware in an open source project while the other miners cannot?

Isn't this unfair to the other miners?
It's been discussed to death and the results of meaningful statistics largely ignored. This is again the reddit effect I'm afraid. Miners have never used the overt feature which leaves a trail and there is no evidence of them having used the covert feature though it theoretically could be possible to hide it well enough for it to not be spotted. Since I know the quality of code from bitmain, I can guarantee you they're not smart enough to be doing the latter. Additionally, and this is the one thing most people neglect, is that the profits from trying to build in use of the covert feature would be pitifully small compared to the overall profits of mining in the first place making using covert asicboost not worth the effort required to do so. An unfair advantage? Yes I agree it is inappropriate IF USED, which it isn't, and if it led to some massive profits, which it doesn't. The emphasis on it as though it's the reason bitmain is blocking segwit is marketing in my opinion. This is coming from me, a segwit advocate, but I also happen to be informed about the mining world.
legendary
Activity: 3276
Merit: 2442
This is madness...

No...



How we get here was itself problematic. How can a group of miners use a patented software on their hardware in an open source project while the other miners cannot?

Isn't this unfair to the other miners?
-ck
legendary
Activity: 4088
Merit: 1631
Ruu \o/
After BIP148 fails just like the hostile miner forks failed and once it becomes clear to all that November is going to come and go without activation of the existing implementation maybe the declining BTC market dominance will spur  people to soften their positions and we can get something more promising in the next implementation
Not sure, but there still is a bit of a scramble to push for a lower threshold activation of 80% before August 1, though I have no idea how they're going to get support for it that quickly even if it is ready. Some of the miners allege to be against the current segwit activation because the threshold is too high but then none of that matters without Jihan and his combined slave/cronies/faked personas agreeing to it. I've tried to point this out to some of the people in the discussions but they don't see it the way I do, and that is: some core devs are currently working hard to circumvent a change from activating from other core devs...
-ck
legendary
Activity: 4088
Merit: 1631
Ruu \o/
And now I have to retract my comments about the segwit2x COOP options being proposed as not being rejected. Many of the core developers are starting to weigh in on the debate with a formal opinion on it and so far no one has agreed to it:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Segwit_support

Comments like this explain why they're not agreeing to it:
https://twitter.com/eric_lombrozo/status/873482749755088896
"Specifically, I believe the project got hijacked in a bait-and-switch."

Which means we do not have a consensus of any kind on any solution on the table yet that has both core and minerJihan support.

I don't think BIP148 will get any meaningful support in time for Aug1 so I'm guessing they're still hoping miners will buckle before November for the original segwit activation...?

https://twitter.com/LukeDashjr/status/873697372425072640

The solution is very clear.

Lucky Luke will change the PoW algo after we get Segwit with UASF and we are going to get rid of the cancer miners forever. He has my and many other's full support on this roadmap.
As I've said multiple times before, no it is not remotely clear based on existing support. Everyone is reading too much reddit which is making things look simple through feedback loops of people convincing each other without looking at the big picture. Don't believe the "it doesn't matter how little support it has, it can't fail by design" bullshit. Sure a forked chain with no one supporting it that can't ever reconnect with the existing chain can't ever be killed off with UASF, but then it can also simply remain as a zombie chain forever with <1% hashrate. If it got support of say 25% of the hashrate it would be a far more meaningful alternative. If you think that changing PoW as a way of increasing its relevance is the solution, then I think you need to seriously take a long hard think about how we got to where we are in terms of current bitcoin acceptance, value, perceived stability and future prospects. If you're willing to sacrifice all that on some overarching principle, then you should also accept that bitcoin's relevance as by far the most relevant cryptocurrency will never again be achieved. Following Luke-jr standing alone of all people would be madness...
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
And now I have to retract my comments about the segwit2x COOP options being proposed as not being rejected. Many of the core developers are starting to weigh in on the debate with a formal opinion on it and so far no one has agreed to it:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Segwit_support

Comments like this explain why they're not agreeing to it:
https://twitter.com/eric_lombrozo/status/873482749755088896
"Specifically, I believe the project got hijacked in a bait-and-switch."

Which means we do not have a consensus of any kind on any solution on the table yet that has both core and minerJihan support.

I don't think BIP148 will get any meaningful support in time for Aug1 so I'm guessing they're still hoping miners will buckle before November for the original segwit activation...?

Well that's disappointing but not entirely surprising.
There are too many people in the community on both sides of this dispute who still feel this issue can be resolved by force instead of the painful process of building a broad consensus for change.

After BIP148 fails just like the hostile miner forks failed and once it becomes clear to all that November is going to come and go without activation of the existing implementation maybe the declining BTC market dominance will spur  people to soften their positions and we can get something more promising in the next implementation?

hero member
Activity: 1092
Merit: 552
Retired IRCX God
They going to call it "LDashCoin" or "LiteCoinLight"?  Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 3276
Merit: 2442
And now I have to retract my comments about the segwit2x COOP options being proposed as not being rejected. Many of the core developers are starting to weigh in on the debate with a formal opinion on it and so far no one has agreed to it:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Segwit_support

Comments like this explain why they're not agreeing to it:
https://twitter.com/eric_lombrozo/status/873482749755088896
"Specifically, I believe the project got hijacked in a bait-and-switch."

Which means we do not have a consensus of any kind on any solution on the table yet that has both core and minerJihan support.

I don't think BIP148 will get any meaningful support in time for Aug1 so I'm guessing they're still hoping miners will buckle before November for the original segwit activation...?

https://twitter.com/LukeDashjr/status/873697372425072640

The solution is very clear.

Lucky Luke will change the PoW algo after we get Segwit with UASF and we are going to get rid of the cancer miners forever. He has my and many other's full support on this roadmap.
-ck
legendary
Activity: 4088
Merit: 1631
Ruu \o/
"hijacked in a bait-and-switch."
Much like the bait-and-switch idea that we have any choice through any actual consensus "vote" about segwit other than when it's implemented.  Angry
Not sure why you bring that up, core's position is segwit first before anything and everything else; I don't see why you expect them to offer anything else, it shouldn't even be a discussion point by now (at least not on this thread.)
hero member
Activity: 1092
Merit: 552
Retired IRCX God
"hijacked in a bait-and-switch."
Much like the bait-and-switch idea that we have any choice through any actual consensus "vote" about segwit other than when it's implemented.  Angry
-ck
legendary
Activity: 4088
Merit: 1631
Ruu \o/
And now I have to retract my comments about the segwit2x COOP options being proposed as not being rejected. Many of the core developers are starting to weigh in on the debate with a formal opinion on it and so far no one has agreed to it:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Segwit_support

Comments like this explain why they're not agreeing to it:
https://twitter.com/eric_lombrozo/status/873482749755088896
"Specifically, I believe the project got hijacked in a bait-and-switch."

Which means we do not have a consensus of any kind on any solution on the table yet that has both core and minerJihan support.

I don't think BIP148 will get any meaningful support in time for Aug1 so I'm guessing they're still hoping miners will buckle before November for the original segwit activation...?
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 504
Right, and given it's almost 100% slush at the moment, he would see the chain as being a dead end and see it as lost business and abandon it immediately, leaving the fork without any hashrate whatsoever (except that bogus uasfpool.com which has only 500GH and isn't even configured to support segwit properly and is actually likely a scam).

Precisely. UASF=shitcoin fail.

The only market impact will be a shorting opportunity around August 1. Most of the world won't blink.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 504

Something else is also interesting here. Slush is the only big pool that gives users a choice. Why? Because they are the only real pool. Ever asked yourself why all those "pools" that signal for either BU or Segwit do not seem to be worried at all to lose customers who disagree with the political choice of the pool?

All of these "pools" are in fact just individual miners with a pool-interface. Well, it might be the case that a few lonely grandmothers that got an Antminer gifted do also mine on Antpool, thinking that it's best to mine on the pool of the manufacturer, but 99.99% of the Hashrate is from Bitmain itself. Same with ViaBtc, btc.com, F2pool, Bitfury, BTCC and so on.

Oh, and bitcoin.com, that is another real pool, but operated by a deity.

could you site a source for this claim?

My understanding is that pools are divided roughly equally on their support for Segwit/Unlimited/No Change.
hero member
Activity: 1092
Merit: 552
Retired IRCX God
...Slush is the only big pool that gives users a choice. Why? Because they are the only real pool. Ever asked yourself why all those "pools" that signal for either BU or Segwit do not seem to be worried at all to lose customers who disagree with the political choice of the pool?...
Because the "average miner" is a guy that could barely afford the $1,100-1,800 he dropped on an S9 that he wants to underclock so that he can hear his TV over the fan, because he's running his single unit in his bedroom, and he couldn't give 2 shits less about Bitcoin (or it's politics).  Roll Eyes
full member
Activity: 235
Merit: 100

BIP148 doesn't need a miner majority to build a chain, but it needs a decent sized miner minority which it still doesn't have.
false. a miner minority is already in place. --> https://slushpool.com/stats/?c=btc

Not false. I said decent sized. Slush pool is big, but the amount of hash directed to his BIP148 option is not enough to sustain the entire network. Blocks would be days apart at the current rate.

Something else is also interesting here. Slush is the only big pool that gives users a choice. Why? Because they are the only real pool. Ever asked yourself why all those "pools" that signal for either BU or Segwit do not seem to be worried at all to lose customers who disagree with the political choice of the pool?

All of these "pools" are in fact just individual miners with a pool-interface. Well, it might be the case that a few lonely grandmothers that got an Antminer gifted do also mine on Antpool, thinking that it's best to mine on the pool of the manufacturer, but 99.99% of the Hashrate is from Bitmain itself. Same with ViaBtc, btc.com, F2pool, Bitfury, BTCC and so on.

Oh, and bitcoin.com, that is another real pool, but operated by a deity.
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