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ABCbits

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Quote from: DaveF on October 06, 2021, 07:28:06 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Not surprising, laptop isn't good option if you're looking for fanless/noiseless device with 24/7. Barebone PC (such as Raspberry Pi and Intel NUC) is better option due to better ventilation.

NUCs are not always cheap or fan-free. I have a few of them at client sites sitting behind monitors.

I know, i simply didn't bother to write "Intel NUC which doesn't have fan".

Quote from: n0nce on October 06, 2021, 08:26:49 AM

Or simply use IPv6 / Tor which 'stay the same' out of the box.

Don't forget dynamic address also exist on IPv6.

SFR10

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Quote from: dkbit98 on October 13, 2022, 09:07:29 AM

I just received a message from one member who told me that he placed an order and he didn't receive any reply from their support even after he contacted them several times.

Someone else had" a similar issue 8 months ago" and it seems that you have to contact them a few times on "Twitter ^{[as opposed to their email]}" to get their attention.
^{- It's worth noting that "they shipped to someone 8 months after he/she placed the order" and that perfectly shows what kind of company is behind its operations [SMH]!}

Quote from: dkbit98 on October 13, 2022, 09:07:29 AM

I don't know if they turned out to be a scam or not, but I also sent them a message to ask what is happening, and I didn't receive any reply.

Personally, I don't trust them, but any update on this?

Quote from: dkbit98 on October 13, 2022, 09:07:29 AM

and if you can help contacting them than please post any information you have below.

- The Twitter handle of their product head is @PraneshDevaraju
- It seems that the company that's behind it ^{[DOIDO Technologies Pvt Ltd]} has moved its domain from "doido.in" to "doidotech.com":

Quote from: https://doidotech.com/contact/
+91 44 27552715
+91 8807527762

[email protected]

Headquarters:
DOIDO Technologies Pvt Ltd
7/28A Mettu Street, Sengunthar Pet, Madurantakam, Tamil Nadu 603306 India
Quote from: https://www.indiamart.com/doido-technologies-private-limited/
+91-8048371570

dkbit98

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I just received a message from one member who told me that he placed an order and he didn't receive any reply from their support even after he contacted them several times.
I don't know if they turned out to be a scam or not, but I also sent them a message to ask what is happening, and I didn't receive any reply.
They used to work with Umbrel, but I didn't check any updates for a long time, but their twitter account seems to be active.

Please be careful with this website, and if you can help contacting them than please post any information you have below.
Thanks

n0nce

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Quote from: Timelord2067 on October 06, 2021, 07:19:13 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

If you want fixed IP/address, you could use VPN (which support port-forwarding) or Tor (using onion address).

I only mentioned IP addresses as I was presuming that a person would want other nodes to open channels to their own box "in the wild", otherwise it would be just outbound connections to whomever you thought would make a suitable connection to open a channel to. (In the wild would enable more randomness of locations your node would be connected to).

You actually don't need a fixed IP for people to connect to you and no port forwarding either, since all connections in Bitcoin are full duplex.

For Lightning, just make sure it always announces its current IP, be it static or not. (it can change; just need some script or so that adapts it accordingly - or dynDNS could be used, not sure). Or simply use IPv6 / Tor which 'stay the same' out of the box.

DaveF

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Quote from: j2002ba2 on October 05, 2021, 02:30:47 PM

There are fanless laptops, here is a list from 2018 (or 2019?).
MacBook Air with M1 processor is fanless as well. It happened almost an year ago. Do you consider it "standard laptop"?

Most of the fanless ones don't have a physical network port so you are dangling something off of the USB for physical connection.
And they tend to have smaller drives. For the Apple ones, they are so overpriced that you can get 3 bitcoin machines for the price of 1 Apple

Quote from: n0nce on October 05, 2021, 04:28:47 PM

Well, modern ARM-based laptops that run without fans, are basically a latest-gen Pi with a screen and keyboard. It's both ARM and thus very energy efficient, so they are not producing too much heat. This means they can cool themselves using the chassis as a passive heatsink and run a very long time on battery.

But, yes again 256GB drives at most for many of them and no physical network connection.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Not surprising, laptop isn't good option if you're looking for fanless/noiseless device with 24/7. Barebone PC (such as Raspberry Pi and Intel NUC) is better option due to better ventilation.

NUCs are not always cheap or fan-free. I have a few of them at client sites sitting behind monitors.

I think the loop here keeps coming back to is 'the correct tool for the job' RPIs have many things they can do well, and many things they don't do well. You really don't want one for gaming, or as a desktop replacement if you are working on massive spreadsheets, etc. For things like being a node, they do work well.

Small fanless laptops are easy to carry for travel, carry around campus and whatever else. But they tend to have to make compromises like smaller drives and less features in order to make them smaller and lighter and extend battery life for a limited size battery. For the ones that don't the price becomes an issue.

Full size desktops and laptops are well, full size desktops and laptops which is not what this thread is about.

-Dave

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Quote from: ?? on ??

If you want fixed IP/address, you could use VPN (which support port-forwarding) or Tor (using onion address).

I only mentioned IP addresses as I was presuming that a person would want other nodes to open channels to their own box "in the wild", otherwise it would be just outbound connections to whomever you thought would make a suitable connection to open a channel to. (In the wild would enable more randomness of locations your node would be connected to).

n0nce

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Quote from: dkbit98 on October 05, 2021, 03:47:45 PM

Quote from: LoyceV on October 04, 2021, 03:52:55 PM

Search for "fanless laptops"

No I won't, they are heating like crazy even if they have fans, and like I said before I am much more a fan of RaspberryPi devices, that are cheaper, smaller, and they don't produce any noise.

Well, modern ARM-based laptops that run without fans, are basically a latest-gen Pi with a screen and keyboard. It's both ARM and thus very energy efficient, so they are not producing too much heat. This means they can cool themselves using the chassis as a passive heatsink and run a very long time on battery.

dkbit98

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Quote from: LoyceV on October 04, 2021, 03:52:55 PM

Search for "fanless laptops"

No I won't, they are heating like crazy even if they have fans, and like I said before I am much more a fan of RaspberryPi devices, that are cheaper, smaller, and they don't produce any noise.

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Quote from: LoyceV on October 05, 2021, 01:42:38 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

I wonder how often you need to clean it if you use it 24/7.

Too often

And my replacement fan doesn't do a very good job, I don't like baking my GPU at 80 degrees (when searching for vanity addresses).
I wonder what will happen first: a phone with a fan, or standard laptops without them.

Phones with a fan existed few years ago - I remember seeing a "gaming phone" with a fan... found it: "Red Magic 3" from 2019.

There are fanless laptops, here is a list from 2018 (or 2019?).
MacBook Air with M1 processor is fanless as well. It happened almost an year ago. Do you consider it "standard laptop"?

DaveF

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Quote from: LoyceV on October 05, 2021, 01:42:38 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

I wonder how often you need to clean it if you use it 24/7.

Too often

And my replacement fan doesn't do a very good job, I don't like baking my GPU at 80 degrees (when searching for vanity addresses).
I wonder what will happen first: a phone with a fan, or standard laptops without them.

Phone with a fan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LUt89E-OY0
Side note about my nodes in a box: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/nodes-in-a-box-5364113

As for running your laptop 24/7 I have a couple that I have run into the ground that way, but mostly from me not really being there.
One of the larger issues with this IMO, is that the fans are small and not that great so as they get clogged / less efficient, they try to run faster.
Sooner or later I find they do spin themselves into oblivion.

If they are not running where you can hear that happen, the laptop will overheat and shutdown.
Replacing the fan on most laptops is not that hard. But, you usually have to go and order the parts supplier someplace.
For a regular PC or RPi just about any computer store is going to have one.

-Dave

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Quote from: ?? on ??

I wonder how often you need to clean it if you use it 24/7.

Too often

And my replacement fan doesn't do a very good job, I don't like baking my GPU at 80 degrees (when searching for vanity addresses).
I wonder what will happen first: a phone with a fan, or standard laptops without them.

n0nce

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Quote from: LoyceV on October 04, 2021, 03:52:55 PM

Quote from: dkbit98 on October 04, 2021, 02:42:44 PM

I was speaking from personal experience of netbook battery being destroyed like that and it was working perfectly before that.

Allow me to share my experience too: my laptop is on most of the time, and lost less than 5% of it's battery capacity per year. Overall, from what I've seen in several laptops, I don't think it matters much. Some batteries last long, some don't. And even if the battery breaks, it's not as if that matters much for your node.

I don't know, my experience was like Loyce Cheesy

It does reduce the capacity but not much and I prefer swapping it for 20$ after some years or just throwing it out; since the device isn't going to ever be used as a laptop again anyway.
And I agree that it's not a UPS but it gives almost the same benefit at 0 extra cost.

Quote from: LoyceV on October 04, 2021, 03:52:55 PM

Quote

I am freak for silence, so if there is a way to run Bitcoin node without any noise I would always choose that, being that Bitcoin Machine or regular Rpi device.

Search for "fanless laptops"

Since my laptop is some trash that I don't even know where it came from, it does have a fan, but I just set it to around 3V (it's a 5V DC fan) using a buck converter wired to a USB port's + and - pads (all internal to the case). Totally silent in a corner of the room, doing its thing..

Quote from: Timelord2067 on October 04, 2021, 04:57:17 PM

Don't you need to have your own IP address fixed or something to enable other users to connect to you? Otherwise it's no different to having a NUC box with Windows and and always open Bitcoin Core program and Zap/Eclair (or similar) running full time.

Nope, that's wrong, you don't need a fixed IP. It is exactly the same as having a NUC with any OS and Core + Zap running, indeed. Just that this is preconfigured and all set up, consumes less power and it has a screen which the NUC does not. So it looks a bit cooler in a store or hackerspace for example.

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Don't you need to have your own IP address fixed or something to enable other users to connect to you? Otherwise it's no different to having a NUC box with Windows and and always open Bitcoin Core program and Zap/Eclair (or similar) running full time.

LoyceV

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Quote from: dkbit98 on October 04, 2021, 02:42:44 PM

I was speaking from personal experience of netbook battery being destroyed like that and it was working perfectly before that.

Allow me to share my experience too: my laptop is on most of the time, and lost less than 5% of it's battery capacity per year. Overall, from what I've seen in several laptops, I don't think it matters much. Some batteries last long, some don't. And even if the battery breaks, it's not as if that matters much for your node.

Quote

many experts say that if you want to keep your laptop 24/t you should remove your battery and just use only direct power cable connection.

Mind if I call those experts dumb? Tongue

A replacement battery costs what: $50? That's totally worth having a build-in UPS in case of power failure (or more likely: accidentally unplugging it). What's the point of having a battery if you're afraid to use it?
The laptop just stops charging when it's full. I'm aware that 100% full reduces the battery life, a lower charge is better for optimal storage. Ideally, laptops should just have the option to keep the battery charged at 50%, but I guess not many users would use that feature.

Quote

I am freak for silence, so if there is a way to run Bitcoin node without any noise I would always choose that, being that Bitcoin Machine or regular Rpi device.

Search for "fanless laptops"

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Quote from: n0nce on October 02, 2021, 02:23:31 PM

Meh, it's not as bad as you may think. I ran a MacBook for years almost exclusively at home on continuous connection to the power supply and its battery is now totally normal for its age (it still lasts for multiple hours). And you can get batteries for older laptops quite cheaply. What I like most about it is that it's like a built-in UPS!

I was speaking from personal experience of netbook battery being destroyed like that and it was working perfectly before that.
UPS is much different thing, but many experts say that if you want to keep your laptop 24/t you should remove your battery and just use only direct power cable connection.
I am freak for silence, so if there is a way to run Bitcoin node without any noise I would always choose that, being that Bitcoin Machine or regular Rpi device.

n0nce

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Quote from: dkbit98 on October 02, 2021, 02:16:20 PM

Running node on laptop would for sure quickly destroy your battery, because they are not meant to work non-stop.

Meh, it's not as bad as you may think. I ran a MacBook for years almost exclusively at home on continuous connection to the power supply and its battery is now totally normal for its age (it still lasts for multiple hours). And you can get batteries for older laptops quite cheaply. What I like most about it is that it's like a built-in UPS!
I have to say; I had bad experiences with power losses on Pis; tons of corrupted data (read: re-download and verify many many blocks...), whereas crashes on desktops and laptops never had such an issue. But I digress Grin

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Quote from: Dabs on October 01, 2021, 10:20:06 AM

Off topic already, but since we are doing price comparisons, a cheap laptop would cost around $200 to $300. Add a 1 TB SSD and you can run a full node, has more cores, has more memory (or maybe the same) ... But is not as small as a raspi, or as low power usage.

You can even get cheap used desktop computer with SSD drive, but all point here is focused on plug-and-play solution, meaning no installation and no setting up.
This would be like you could buy a computer that already have preset and installed everything for running Bitcoin node, and I don't think it is possible to find that.
Running node on laptop would for sure quickly destroy your battery, because they are not meant to work non-stop.

Quote from: DaveF on October 02, 2021, 08:25:12 AM

And ONLY pull just over 1.1A at 5V during the initial sync which is probably the most power hungry part of running a node.

Everything has it's advantages and disadvantages, we all have to figure out what works for our particular situation and use case.

One more advantage I see is that Rpi has virtually no noise if you are not using any ventilators, and you can get pretty good cooling with aluminum heatsinks.

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Quote from: DaveF on October 02, 2021, 08:25:12 AM

Yes you can get a used a laptop or a netbook or something for less. But, most of them are not designed to be run 24/7 so you may have issues down the road with them not lasting.

In my experience, that's not much of a problem: every laptop I ever broke, broke from travel (cracked housing from opening/closing, damaged power connectors, AKA usually mechanical problems), not from running on a desk for years. It only requires cleaning the fan once in a while and can literally last for years in a row.
I wouldn't buy one of those high TDP systems though, heat is terrible in a laptop.

n0nce

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Quote from: DaveF on October 02, 2021, 08:25:12 AM

It's a give and take.
Yes you can get a used a laptop or a netbook or something for less. But, most of them are not designed to be run 24/7 so you may have issues down the road with them not lasting. Embedded things like RPi are designed to run for years.

Oh right, that's a valid point that I missed so far! I noticed for example that my old laptop's cooling is absolutely abysmal so I had to hook the fan up to the USB's 5V rail directly and step it down a bit using a buck converter so the laptop stays cool.

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It's a give and take.
Yes you can get a used a laptop or a netbook or something for less. But, most of them are not designed to be run 24/7 so you may have issues down the road with them not lasting. Embedded things like RPi are designed to run for years.

You can get a NUC but they still can't do this:

And ONLY pull just over 1.1A at 5V during the initial sync which is probably the most power hungry part of running a node.

Everything has it's advantages and disadvantages, we all have to figure out what works for our particular situation and use case.

-Dave

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