Topic: The Bitcoin Paradox - a Simple Online Scam Honored as Deity (Read 1078 times)

Calling everyone idiot makes it a bit of a hard thing for anyone to defend you, maybe you should realize that. Have you ever considered that there are so many people who think of it one way, and make money by thinking that way, and you are considering it as just a decentralized currency and not a storage of wealth whereas tens of billions of dollars are stored at it could be a wrong approach?

I am not like you, so I am not going to make it personal, but could there be an approach that you perhaps didn't see? That could be something quite important if you miss that approach and I suggest you to give it another look, maybe you will see something you haven't seen earlier.

Well, if Bitcoin system is not a Ponzi scheme than answer how can the holders of Bitcoin benefit without someone entering the system? So, it's pretty simple question. I explained how the borrowers, who are part of banking or fiat currency system, provide goods, services and labour to the holders of fiat currencies. And that's how these holders benefit from within the system, that is, without someone entering into the banking system. Now you tell me how all that army of Bitcoin holders can benefit without someone entering the bitcoin system? These holders preach that Bitcoin is very valuable. They currently pay $30,000 for it. And there are 18 million of those valuable Bitcoins. Meaning, they preach that a lot of value exists in the bitcoin system. So how the holders can benefit from all that value, without someone from the outside bringing in their value?

Also, we need to realize that if you have no dollars, then you are getting it from someone else? I mean is that the same logic? Or gold? The person who got in the first, made all the money and the one that got the last will end up with the worst situation?

This ponzi scheme thing is trying to get into everything but we all know that it is not the reality. Sure you could end up with a ponzi scheme somewhere, they are still out there but to call bitcoin a ponzi scheme, that is just a comedy. We get to use it as well, we get to earn it as well, we get to spend it as well. To think just because there are investors, and hence why it must be ponzi to make everyone rich, makes gold a ponzi.

 

Oh, you're able to see the future. Wow.

Whatever your motivation is to keep continue with your statements here, I'm very happy to think of you again in 10 years when your biggest regret will be to spam the forum and not instead mine or buy bitcoin.

So, I don't understand Bitcoin because, you know that an anonymous guy has only one address in a system where the address holders are anonymous? Do you realize how nonsensical your statements are?

I really don't care about your questions. I only care that you prove me wrong. I simply said that nobody in the system is able to benefit within the system, which means that zero economic resources exist in the system and literally all members of the system require what members of all investment scams require: new investors. Without them they are doomed.

So, you can scream all you like, but you cannot prove me wrong in that way.  
Why then the holders in the Satoshi's system require new buyers or investors? If the thing they own in the system is valuable, why all of them must sell that thing, that is, get something from outside of the system? And then, whoever enters the system, also must exist the system and get something for the outside to be able to benefit. How's that possible if, within the Satoshi's system something valuable exists? Are you people even aware how naive you are?

Society decides what has value and what does not. A piece of stone can be of great value to some people and at the same instant is worthless to other people . When a rectangular piece of paper has value and able to get you a launch or an item, it is because the society decided to make it to have value. The same goes for Bitcoin or other cryptocurrency. cryptocurrency is seen as the future of money and has numerous benefits when compared to fiat. With cryptocurrency, you are in control of your money. You don't need to keep it with a third party.

I'll have to agree with DooMAD here, the problem is rather psychological. There's no point to continue arguing with him, and as a proverb goes, arguing with a fool proves there are two. PrivacyG, save your breath, what you're saying has been repeatedly told to him in other threads with even more ridiculous titles[1][2][3].

He's not going to read your response; he'll read a few sentences and say the same bullshit again. He must be feeling great he's understood something millions of others don't. But, that isn't enough. He needs to enforce his opinion to others. What a trashy scumbag.

Leave the troll go hungry.

---

[1] [VIDEO]: Bitcoin Exists Only in Satoshi's Imagination
[2] Bitcoin Doesn’t Exist, Or How Satoshi Nakamoto Tells Lies To People
[3] Bitcoin is a 'two-phased' product, which makes it ponzi/pyramid-like

I think it's more of a cry for help.  The only attention they can get in life is when they troll Internet message boards.  It's the only time anyone notices they even exist.  A sad and desperately lonely attention-seeker.

It wouldn't matter whether they understood it or not, they'll keep lying anyway.  Because that's what provokes the biggest response.

So instead of taking only fifteen minutes of his time to read through a REAL source of information about how Bitcoin works and how it was created and distributed, he chose to invent, write down and even strongly sustain his own fantasy about how Bitcoin is a 'scheme' honored as deity.

Smart.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

The problem is that he misunderstood how bitcoins were initially distributed. He thinks that Satoshi sold all the 21 Million BTC to the people here and then disappeared with their fiat money they gave him. But that is not the case since I don't think anyone ever bought a single BTC from satoshi.

First of all, this is getting silly.  First, it is you who is ignoring my point.  You are intentionally doing this because your arguments are becoming less and less valid with each of our posts.  I already answered your question multiple times in my previous replies.

Second, you continue to use the word 'scheme' next to Bitcoin which is more than definitely deception.  It is not a scheme, it is a system.

Back to the rest of your question.  I can send you $100,000 worth of Bitcoin without a third party interfering with our transaction and requesting documents for identification and proof for source of funds.

I can move $1,000,000,000 abroad without making anyone notice that I did.  It is a transaction stored in a public and transparent legder, but pseudonymity makes it so that there is no clear evidence of who I am and with enough privacy and care, I can make it close to impossible with the current knowledge, information and technology to link the transaction to my identity.

I can purchase a ton of goods using Bitcoin directly, at my own will, even by physically shopping and checking out in a similar way to credit card payments.  Only without banks.

I can store information directly on the blockchain.

I can use my own resources and energy to 'generate' or, as we say, mine Bitcoin at my own will.

These are just a few of the things I can do with Bitcoin.  This is how I benefit from it.  Tell me where exactly is the 'new investors' part in any of the five scenarios I have mentioned above.  Exactly, there is not.

If we are talking about price increasing from purchases and decreasing from sales.  That is how ANY asset works.  Offer and demand.  If you think I am benefiting from others who are purchasing Bitcoin and making the price increase, then any other asset in this world is by your definition a scam.  Gold miners are tricking you into believing Gold has value and scamming you out of your real asset: cash.  Because how else would they benefit from Gold if there was no new investor to purchase it?  But wait.  Now the state is tricking you into believing cash actually has value and scamming you out of your real asset.  Because how else would they benefit from cash if there was no new investor to purchase it?  And the list goes on, infinitely.

Now instead of intentionally ignoring all of my previous questions and replying with 'I know best, I do not even care what you are saying anyway', try actually answering them for once, you genius.  Because you always ignore questions but ask yours and want them to be replied to by us.  Either participate in a conversation or keep your monologue and conspiracy theory to yourself.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

I'm sorry but you are not understanding bitcoin correctly, since you are assuming that satoshi exchanged bitcoins for fiat money and then left. This is not the case since it is only recorded that he mined two blocks and one of them is unspendable. Meaning he owns 50 BTC in total and those were not spend also. Ofcourse he could have mined more blocks later but everyone could have done this so it is not right what you are saying.
Can you maybe tell what is the reason for you to fight random people on the internet about Bitcoin?

It's a scam in a sense that Satoshi in the Whitepaper claimed that his system produces money. Money is an economic resource from which people can benefit without new buyers or investors. Also, no one knows how many addresses Satoshi has in the system. So he is essentially benefiting from the disinformation written in the Whitepaper. He got real economic resources and left the holders only with units of his imagined number (21 million). Which is why literally all holders need the new buyers or investors to get the resources back. Without them, they are doomed. Hence, a classical investment scam.

I think what you are describing in your opening post has one flaw: You describe an asset that is sold to people for their fiat money with no real value behind it in return. This for Bitcoin ist not true, since bitcoins were not sold to people by Satoshi Nakamoto. He only created the network and let people do work (mine) to get the bitcoin. If satoshi would have just sold all coins to people and then left it would be a scam, I can agree with you. This is done by many premined coins but as I said was not done with bitcoin. So in order to get bitcoins you also have to perform work, which makes it in return also debt based. TADA: it is not that different form other currencies, except it is digital.

He failed totally, I didn't read all his wall of text because I wasn't prepared for it. I didn't want to read something that will not be useful to me because I have made my own research about bitcoin.
What Op did'nt understand is that value can be created. The laptop we use is a rectangular box but the value in it made it superb. The fiat currency we use is a paper but the value it carry differentiates it from other papers.
Whatever you may think of bitcoin, provided that Satoshi gave it a value and the society has agreed with the value it carry and there is a secured and reputable way to secure the value bitcoin carry, we are not afraid anyday.

USD is debt. From debt you benefit when debt is paid. I explained this a dozen times on this forum.

So, you're admitting the obvious - the holders are unable to benefit from their holdings, but only from new buyers/investors. Their holdings are then not money/currency/asset, but shares in an investment scam. And that's exactly the point of this topic.

It is simply the definition of a currency. A universal storage of wealth that can be used to be exchanged for goods and services. Tell me how bitcoin is different than other currencies? How can you benefit from the USD without exchange it for goods and services?

But "buying" is still investing or bringing economic resources into the system. I am asking HOW holders can benefit within the system? From their holdings. When someone voluntarily entes the system and bring in the economic resources so that the current holders can benefit, that's not benefiting within the system.