Topic: The continuing decline of China's economy - what are the implications ? - page 2. (Read 854 times)

China is a very interesting country and the way we manufacture in China and made China dependent on export, is even more interesting. Btw I don't understand why it's always China that's dependent on export and production while Western countries depend on what? If China produces almost everything, then how are western countries going to get very important techs like smartphones, computer parts and etc? China also wants to gain control on Taiwan where many other part of technics is manufactured. If Taiwan becomes part of China, then it means that China produces almost all of our smartphones, TVs, computers and etc...

You are right. A few years ago, it was very easy to get a loan in my country. Many people here work unofficially, don't pay taxes and when you would go to Bank, you had to describe your job, tell them your income and the bank would give you money according to that (btw your numbers had to be close to reality).
To be fair, the majority of the population of my country isn't smart and statistics prove that. Many people got their lives destroyed because of easy loans, so I agree with you, being able to get under debt easily is not a good thing.

That is not true.
About 40% of the products are made in China, in some countries it might be more. Most goods are made under western development.
And if left alone China would be bankrupt, If your country purely relies on exports, you do not have a sustainable economy. You have a dependent one.
Furthermore China lacks a Word Currency plus the mechanism  to send it around.

Most of the world runs on an antique banking system. The 1st World is a little more advanced in banking..

Being able to got under debt so easily is not as good a sign as you may think.

In Germany I went into a bank and received a small credit based on my idea.

Technically speaking they are moving away from that and it is a good thing for the world. So, it would be wrong to say that China makes everything, there are still some things that China does, like some car companies have China as their distribution centre for Asia, and apple uses them and many other stuff like sneakers etc etc.

However, I would like to point out that even that's not true anymore and everyone is looking for other places, the reason is that China wants their own products and they do not want to make America's products and give it back to them, they want to build their own products and sell those. That has been the case for a very long time, like look at how cheap their EV cars right now, they are not competing with Tesla, they never wanted to, what they want is to make sure that all the bikes and cars that are electric were their own products that they sell to billions of people in their own country and in India and everywhere around, even going as west as some European nations which are not rich.

It is most likely a set of problems that gave this “result”.
It is also a “soft policy” with avoidance of tough measures towards violators of agreements and accepted rules of the game. And it started during the Obama era, when Washington decided to play “soft and fluffy”..... Unfortunately, mistakes in the past are paid for in the future.

China wasn’t so great 20 years ago and they didn’t become so great by on their own. The US helped them. I still find it weird. It was a profitable move for the short term but as everybody can see it now, it was a disastrous move for the long game.

The West I know aren’t really the short term players so this move contradicts with their history. Only the weak countries try to save their tomorrow by giving up on their distant future.

There are a few possibilities in this situation.

1- The west became dumb and weak
2- The traitors are in command
3- Both above are true as the traitors wouldn’t get in command if the society was smart and strong.

Because China is greater than The West, period.

China has full of hard worker and they push their limit, unlike Western countries that always looking for slow living aka work life balance, China don't have it because they adopt 996 working hour system.

As a country China is great, but as a worker The West is better.

The West made a big mistake when they outsourced their production to China. Now the whole world depends on China. If China does well it is a problem because that means China will be the biggest economy. If China does poorly then it means the rest of the world will suffer from their problems.

You know what that means do you?

It means China is running the show now. Not the US.

As we know and observe - in recent years, China's economy has not only experienced “difficult times” but has also gone from growth to decline. The reasons are many - from COVID19, which hit the economy hard, to the changing relationship with the West, resulting in the loss of markets, investment, access to technology and other things that China is heavily dependent on.
Destabilization in China is guaranteed to create a lot of economic difficulties in neighboring countries, as well as on the geopolitical map of the world, where everything is not good.

What happens next ?  I will assume this scenario:

1. Increased withdrawal of Western investment and Western industries from China (related primarily to political conjuncture)
(We are roughly here now)
2. Attempts of the Chinese government to “spare no expense” to keep the economy afloat, which will lead to the burnout of strategic reserves, and will allow to “come to the edge of the abyss”, where without huge Western infusions of money into the Chinese economy the problem will not be solved.
3. strict administrative measures and transfer of the economy under the control of the state, with the curtailment of economic freedoms, which will negatively affect both the efficiency and quality of the economy.

The question is what's next? Realization and acceptance of the problem and correction of mistakes, ceasing to pretend to be the “second pole of the world”, establishment of relations with the West, refusal from dubious “friends”, reintegration into the world economy ? Or ? There may be a path of totalitarianism and isolation, militarization of politics to distract the population from pressing problems and getting the right to total control over people and management of private business ...

Question - what options for the development of events can you assume in connection with this situation?

Technically speaking they are moving away from that and it is a good thing for the world. So, it would be wrong to say that China makes everything, there are still some things that China does, like some car companies have China as their distribution centre for Asia, and apple uses them and many other stuff like sneakers etc etc.

However, I would like to point out that even that's not true anymore and everyone is looking for other places, the reason is that China wants their own products and they do not want to make America's products and give it back to them, they want to build their own products and sell those. That has been the case for a very long time, like look at how cheap their EV cars right now, they are not competing with Tesla, they never wanted to, what they want is to make sure that all the bikes and cars that are electric were their own products that they sell to billions of people in their own country and in India and everywhere around, even going as west as some European nations which are not rich.

Yeah, unfortunately, it's China that's indeed running the show now. And it's not hard to prove this. We only have to realize that everything is made, produced, assembled, manufactured in China from paper clips and erasers to the very materials that made the building in which we live. T

I can dispute this statement as I believe it to be erroneous.  The fact is that although China is the World Factory of Everything, most of the goods produced by China are not CRITICAL goods. 90% of Chinese goods can either be discarded or replaced by financing and supporting local producers.
Can you list - what goods/technologies/services does China produce that are unique to the world economy and cannot be produced by other countries ? I see so far only options with rare earth metals and battery production.

Everything that's made in China could be replaced by local production. That's true. But how probable is this thing to happen? Great efforts have been made by the US to try to bring back companies to the fold. They only achieved limited success, if indeed you can call it as such.

The truth is that no other country can replicate China. It is only the Chinese government that has hundreds of millions of slaves at their absolute disposal. Therefore, it is the only country that can mass produce anything at lightning speed. Perhaps our only chance is for this massive body of human automatons to finally wake up. It is slowly happening. They're beginning to make demands. China will cause its own demise.

Anyway, my iPhone is made in China, so is my laptop. The rest of the appliances at home, from rice cooker to electric iron to the television to the stove and others are also made in China. The materials that made the house itself like cement and steel are also produced by China. Hell, even our vegetables, fish, and even as basic as rice are imported from China. So, that's basically my entire existence. That's how critical our dependence on China is. I hope this isn't your situation.

I can dispute this statement as I believe it to be erroneous.  The fact is that although China is the World Factory of Everything, most of the goods produced by China are not CRITICAL goods. 90% of Chinese goods can either be discarded or replaced by financing and supporting local producers.
Can you list - what goods/technologies/services does China produce that are unique to the world economy and cannot be produced by other countries ? I see so far only options with rare earth metals and battery production.

Yeah, unfortunately, it's China that's indeed running the show now. And it's not hard to prove this. We only have to realize that everything is made, produced, assembled, manufactured in China from paper clips and erasers to the very materials that made the building in which we live. The world is dependent on China today so much so that if China stops making products, the world might go back to its primitive days. I, of course, am exaggerating but everybody knows the point.

The West made a big mistake when they outsourced their production to China. Now the whole world depends on China. If China does well it is a problem because that means China will be the biggest economy. If China does poorly then it means the rest of the world will suffer from their problems.

You know what that means do you?

It means China is running the show now. Not the US.

That you cannot trust a communist is not that new.
Those tricks are not new either. There have even been warnings. Greed is what made Manager close their eyes and open their pockets.
Managers are paid for performance they are hardly ever punished.
What do you believe is just not mentioned, the grey zone, where CEO got told and said nothing, just to save face.  

Cisco didn't have a collapse, Cisco's sites, equipment and technology were simply seized in favor of the state. And I have my doubts that the directors of Cisco had information about such a move by the Chinese government. In fact, the government on the day when the “license to operate in China” was to be renewed, they were simply refused.

I agree on the entitlement of opinion, each it's own.

That you cannot trust a communist is not that new.
Those tricks are not new either. There have even been warnings. Greed is what made Manager close their eyes and open their pockets.
Managers are paid for performance they are hardly ever punished.

What do you believe is just not mentioned, the grey zone, where CEO got told and said nothing, just to save face.  

Do you know anyone who was punished for selling out from the cisco debacle?