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Topic: The End Is Near - page 4. (Read 11571 times)

legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1006
100 satoshis -> ISO code
May 05, 2013, 06:51:49 AM
#91
IT ONLY HAS BEGUN!!!

In 4 years since the launch? U r kidding.

You are partly right. The end of the beginning is near. The beginning of the middle is starting and that is when it REALLY gets interesting!

Altcoin prices will only ever hang onto the coattails of BTC.
member
Activity: 116
Merit: 10
WINSTARS - We are changing the face of gambling
May 05, 2013, 06:46:15 AM
#90
More altcoins have appeared, people have started to criticize Bitcoin Foundation, Gox has been sued. Seems I was right...

For the love of Science, please state your sources! All I see are words in a particular order claiming something they don't back.

(Gox being sued is the only one I'm sure is legit)
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1009
Newbie
May 05, 2013, 05:44:56 AM
#89
More altcoins have appeared, people have started to criticize Bitcoin Foundation, Gox has been sued. Seems I was right...
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 1008
May 03, 2013, 01:22:40 AM
#88
this feels like April 13th all over again: the last time i bought $60 coins from weak hands.
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
May 03, 2013, 01:14:49 AM
#87
I find the blue font color lends a lot of credibility to this argument. Only a counter argument in a red font could convince me otherwise.

lmao
legendary
Activity: 1002
Merit: 1000
Bitcoin
May 02, 2013, 11:03:13 PM
#86
Good bye. How much do you sell your Bitcointalk account?

I would'nt pay a satoshi for a so many "ignored" account Wink
newbie
Activity: 20
Merit: 0
May 02, 2013, 10:10:56 PM
#85
Eh.  It's only disruptive if people adopt it en masse.  What do you think is more likely?  Western Union, Moneygram, MasterCard, Visa, Amazon, Ripple, etc. improving p2p money transfer, or BTC usurping all of the competition?  I used to be bullish on BTC, but giving it more thought, the value of this currency/commodity is too heavily tied to speculation and hype.  How many people just a few days ago were falling over themselves to say that $100 would never be broken again?  Honestly, I think what's more likely is that something similar to BTC and is redeemable for something of value (rather than dissipated watts in an ASIC) is the future.  If you think fiat requires a leap of faith, BTC requires an absolute acid trip.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
Finding Satoshi
May 02, 2013, 07:22:37 PM
#84
Quote

And consider these facts:

-Bitcoin is open-source CURRENCY. It is not a PRODUCT being pushed and marketed by powerful elites (with their endless supply of brainwashing guru's) with really really deep pockets.
Right.  It doesn't have the force of powerful elites/brainwashing gurus/a country's economy/regulatory bodies/military/etc., etc. backing it up.  Those happen to be the very things that lend value to currency, stabilize that value & inspire confidence.  Bitcoin has ...  Huh
Quote
-No one has tried introduce a disruptive tech like Bitcoins before, a tech that fights centralized banking
Not sure what you mean by "disruptive tech," a currency which is introduced into an established economy *on top of* existent currency to *dilute & devalue it*?  I'm not sure how that's fundamentally different from printing & pumping more $ bills into the economy -- you haven't introduced anything else of value into the system, have you?
Quote
-It's a CURRENCY not backed by a centralized power <- remember this, it is not some smartphone or some piece of operating system, which are just products on top of existing products that the masses are ready to consume... the whole philosophical idea behind Bitcoins is totally foreign to the average citizen who don't understand how their papers are created
Well, see above, +
There are "philosophical ideas" that are too intricate & sublime for the average Joe to understand quickly.  And some "philosophical ideas" are simply ... bad, ill-formed drivel.  Clumsy mental constructs that fail the test of reality. "Average citizen" doesn't get them 'coz he's smart.
Quote
Those facts alone makes life VERY difficult for Bitcoins. So to have Bitcoins where it is today (in a relatively short lifetime of 4 years) I would say Bitcoins is ALREADY a smashing success.
Bitcoin *could* be going through growing pains, or death throes--everything you said seems to point to the latter.  Yeah, the success of Bitcoin up 'till now is nothing short of *amazing*.  OTOH, a horse that can count up to ten is an amazing horse, not an amazing mathematician. (somebody clever (not i) came up with the horse bit)

That said, i'm a noob, and could be dead-wrong. If nothing else, Bitcoin's wikid' interesting.  

[edit] Whoops.  reply to https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2008578

See, the thing is, Bitcoins are not backed by a military or force; there's no one on the magnitude of Apple or IBM or whoever else forcing this thing onto people. You'll hear very little about Bitcoins outside of maybe a random blip on a news channel or certain circles of the internet. So if Bitcoin continues to succeed, it will be because average people see the advantage of using it, not because someone forces them (or as you said, brainwashes them) to use it. Now if people are going to use it out of their own accord, and enough people follow suit, then you can see how that would inspire confidence, especially for those who want to try something new and something that's not backed by violence.

It is indeed a disruptive tech. How much would exchange students or domestic workers or others who need money transfers on a regular basis stand to benefit if Bitcoins become popular with that crowd? They can dodge fees from Western Union or wire transfers, hurting WU and other companies involved in the money transfer business. What about Ebay? What if someone set up something like Ebay but instead uses exclusively Bitcoins or other alt currencies? They just have to undercut Ebay/Paypal a little and ensure that they are responsible enough to take on the "escrow"-like role for a small fee.

I don't see how the philosophical ideas of Bitcoins is drivel... perhaps you don't think of them as important or worthy of thought, that doesn't mean that others will follow in your path. Those who do think about those ideas can gamble and potentially gain something in return. The "average joe" doesn't know how their bank operates but that doesn't stop them from putting some money in the bank. Eventually Bitcoins will expand far enough so that even the average person can gain from being in the system and lose out from not.

I can hardly see a situation where Bitcoins will "die" in a fashion where it cannot recover and once again excel. We've seen cases where it looked like Bitcoins was doomed in the past, but after some time, it is back with more vitality than ever.

EDIT: I'm not saying that Bitcoins will succeed; it might succeed but that day might not be as close as some of us like to think. But the point is that, thus far, Bitcoins has come a long way. And I think we should take the time to reflect on that and appreciate its success.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
Finding Satoshi
May 02, 2013, 07:09:15 PM
#83
Can someone help me with this thought?

I see the altcoins as devaluing and having the potential to replace BTC. So, BTC is inherently threatened.

Since BTC/LTC/FTC are so similar,  doesn't it have the effect of "printing money" on the market, since all of them are the same and can be used for the same purpose? Why is BTC any better than any Altcoin or a combination of all of them? It seems like we went from 17 million coins, plus 4x that, plus 4x that 2nd number again!

So, why would BTC be worth more LONG TERM? It's because of USABILITY - if you can't use it, you won't buy it - and the price will drop! Whatever coin is being used, will have value - Unless its replaced by competition! I could see this happening repeatedly over the coming years - if another coin is able to out-compete BTC, inevitably something better will come along! I don't see BTC being particularly more USABLE than LTC for much at this point, so wheres the value? In its "potential"- but doesn't that  belong to all cryptocurrencies?

Unless BTC is somehow signed into law or permanently becomes the ONLY option mid/long term, it's value will always be in danger of other cyrptocurrencies taking its place, IMO.



It's called the network effect. There are a dozen Facebook clones out there but that doesn't mean they are used; people head towards the network with the largest amount of traffic and users. Apply that to BTC's - no point to hold any alt. coins if the alternate networks have very few users.
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
May 02, 2013, 07:09:06 PM
#82
Agree Kluge. And that's why it trades at well over its closest competitors - and that holds much value. I guess this just means it's important to be careful - but I agree, whichever coin is widely accepted will be TOUGH to beat out, but not impossible.

Reminds me of Blue Ray vs HD DVD - for the world's future currency.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1015
May 02, 2013, 07:03:07 PM
#81
Can someone help me with this thought?

I see the altcoins as devaluing and having the potential to replace BTC. So, BTC is inherently threatened.

Since BTC/LTC/FTC are so similar,  doesn't it have the effect of "printing money" on the market, since all of them are the same and can be used for the same purpose? Why is BTC any better than any Altcoin or a combination of all of them? It seems like we went from 17 million coins, plus 4x that, plus 4x that 2nd number again!

So, why would BTC be worth more LONG TERM? It's because of USABILITY - if you can't use it, you won't buy it - and the price will drop! Whatever coin is being used, will have value - Unless its replaced by competition! I could see this happening repeatedly over the coming years - if another coin is able to out-compete BTC, inevitably something better will come along! I don't see BTC being particularly more USABLE than LTC for much at this point, so wheres the value? In its "potential"- but doesn't that  belong to all cryptocurrencies?

Unless BTC is somehow signed into law or permanently becomes the ONLY option mid/long term, it's value will always be in danger of other cyrptocurrencies taking its place, IMO.
BTC's more fungible because it's more established and popular, thus more usable. Exchanges aren't going to add a hundred BTC clones, nor are many merchants going to start accepting Feathercoins any time soon. BTC's always in danger of being replaced, but they'd have to be dramatically better to get over the adoption hurdle.
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
May 02, 2013, 06:57:43 PM
#80
Can someone help me with this thought?

I see the altcoins as devaluing and having the potential to replace BTC. So, BTC is inherently threatened.

Since BTC/LTC/FTC are so similar,  doesn't it have the effect of "printing money" on the market, since all of them are the same and can be used for the same purpose? Why is BTC any better than any Altcoin or a combination of all of them? It seems like we went from 17 million coins, plus 4x that, plus 4x that 2nd number again!

So, why would BTC be worth more LONG TERM? It's because of USABILITY - if you can't use it, you won't buy it - and the price will drop! Whatever coin is being used, will have value - Unless its replaced by competition! I could see this happening repeatedly over the coming years - if another coin is able to out-compete BTC, inevitably something better will come along! I don't see BTC being particularly more USABLE than LTC for much at this point, so wheres the value? In its "potential"- but doesn't that  belong to all cryptocurrencies?

Unless BTC is somehow signed into law or permanently becomes the ONLY option mid/long term, it's value will always be in danger of other cyrptocurrencies taking its place, IMO.

member
Activity: 81
Merit: 11
May 02, 2013, 06:51:07 PM
#79
'Come from beyond', what is the actual purpose of your rant?

Just to get people upset or what?

Happily bitcoin doesn't answer to you, nor do the thousands of users. I'm curious though as to the purpose of your post? What are you hoping to achieve?

Bitcoin has a lot of (unresolvable) issues. People shouldn't be sheeple. In fact Bitcoin is regulated by "Mark Karpeles & Co". Litecoin has similar issue. I'm sure there are a lot of experienced developers among newbies, they could launch a better cryptocoin.

Bitcoin was created by an Asian. Not only that but a Japanese Asian

You really think someone is going to build a better coin?

 Hell, when Japan finally finishes their Gundams we will all be sorry.


The only Japanese involved was a non English speaking newbie on the Ruby List who's name they decided to use.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Shame on everything; regret nothing.
May 02, 2013, 05:29:54 PM
#78

Before you say bitcoin has failed, first you must define what a success would be for bitcoin. To me, a successful bitcoin has the network running securely, confirming transactions in a timely manner, allowing me to send value across the globe or store value securely until I need it later. We have achieved a small amount of success, but there is still room for improvement. Right now I can store value as bitcoins, and I can send those bitcoins, but these features are still limited.


I agree with this because it's in red
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 500
Shame on everything; regret nothing.
May 02, 2013, 05:28:45 PM
#77
the end of FIAT is near!

FML, the spec forum has follow me out.

yerp
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
May 02, 2013, 05:27:18 PM
#76
Quote

And consider these facts:

-Bitcoin is open-source CURRENCY. It is not a PRODUCT being pushed and marketed by powerful elites (with their endless supply of brainwashing guru's) with really really deep pockets.
Right.  It doesn't have the force of powerful elites/brainwashing gurus/a country's economy/regulatory bodies/military/etc., etc. backing it up.  Those happen to be the very things that lend value to currency, stabilize that value & inspire confidence.  Bitcoin has ...  Huh
Quote
-No one has tried introduce a disruptive tech like Bitcoins before, a tech that fights centralized banking
Not sure what you mean by "disruptive tech," a currency which is introduced into an established economy *on top of* existent currency to *dilute & devalue it*?  I'm not sure how that's fundamentally different from printing & pumping more $ bills into the economy -- you haven't introduced anything else of value into the system, have you?
Quote
-It's a CURRENCY not backed by a centralized power <- remember this, it is not some smartphone or some piece of operating system, which are just products on top of existing products that the masses are ready to consume... the whole philosophical idea behind Bitcoins is totally foreign to the average citizen who don't understand how their papers are created
Well, see above, +
There are "philosophical ideas" that are too intricate & sublime for the average Joe to understand quickly.  And some "philosophical ideas" are simply ... bad, ill-formed drivel.  Clumsy mental constructs that fail the test of reality. "Average citizen" doesn't get them 'coz he's smart.
Quote
Those facts alone makes life VERY difficult for Bitcoins. So to have Bitcoins where it is today (in a relatively short lifetime of 4 years) I would say Bitcoins is ALREADY a smashing success.
Bitcoin *could* be going through growing pains, or death throes--everything you said seems to point to the latter.  Yeah, the success of Bitcoin up 'till now is nothing short of *amazing*.  OTOH, a horse that can count up to ten is an amazing horse, not an amazing mathematician. (somebody clever (not i) came up with the horse bit)

That said, i'm a noob, and could be dead-wrong. If nothing else, Bitcoin's wikid' interesting.  

[edit] Whoops.  reply to https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2008578
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
Free World
May 02, 2013, 05:24:43 PM
#75
Come from behind is correct. Don't put all your eggs in one basket.

BTC will fail as the single, arch-cryptocurrency. It's got some real problems. All you dang kool-aid drinkers put down the isopropyl alcohol spiked kool-aid for just long enough to use your mind and learn what the flaws are and impartially analyze them already, for crissake. I'm not saying it's a train wreck. But because it is open source, it is bound to be improved upon, itself and by forks.

He's not saying cryptocurrency is a failure.

Bitcoin succeeds as being the prototype of cryptocurrency, because cryptocurrency will prevail! Think about it. This is the first go round. Others are already proliferating. Some address btc specific flaws, others don't. The markets will decide. I don't think bitcoin is going to come out on top.

When it's practically as easy as doing a git clone and changing what you want, posting what you did here, enduring the flaming kool-aid drinkers, and supporting the product, then better (and worse) alternatives are surely going to make themselves available. That's another bitcoin success!

I think it will stablize in the future with many different competing and complementary cryptocoins, some for international purposes, some localized geographically used as reserves for notes issued by local banks or governments. Some will store wealth better, like bitcoin, some will spend better and have more velocity, like something like freicoin. Some will only be useful in California, others the world over on the internet. Some will only be pertinent to certain industries, like devcoin is to geeks.

Bitcoin fails as the be-all, end-all, only meaningful cryptocurrency, but succeeds wildy in spawning a whole new monetary system.

This is just my opinion.
sr. member
Activity: 240
Merit: 250
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
May 02, 2013, 05:19:42 PM
#73
'Come from beyond', what is the actual purpose of your rant?

Just to get people upset or what?

Happily bitcoin doesn't answer to you, nor do the thousands of users. I'm curious though as to the purpose of your post? What are you hoping to achieve?

Bitcoin has a lot of (unresolvable) issues. People shouldn't be sheeple. In fact Bitcoin is regulated by "Mark Karpeles & Co". Litecoin has similar issue. I'm sure there are a lot of experienced developers among newbies, they could launch a better cryptocoin.

Bitcoin was created by an Asian. Not only that but a Japanese Asian

You really think someone is going to build a better coin?

 Hell, when Japan finally finishes their Gundams we will all be sorry.
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1009
Newbie
May 02, 2013, 05:13:57 PM
#72
'Come from beyond', what is the actual purpose of your rant?

Just to get people upset or what?

Happily bitcoin doesn't answer to you, nor do the thousands of users. I'm curious though as to the purpose of your post? What are you hoping to achieve?

Bitcoin has a lot of (unresolvable) issues. People shouldn't be sheeple. In fact Bitcoin is regulated by "Mark Karpeles & Co". Litecoin has similar issue. I'm sure there are a lot of experienced developers among newbies, they could launch a better cryptocoin.
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