The end of copyright and patent is where we should be headed

CIYAM

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: ObscureBean on March 09, 2015, 08:48:36 AM

That's very naive thinking. You obviously haven't delved deep enough with your analysis else you would understand that relinquishing control has to happen on all levels for it to mean anything at all. Everything around you has been built using control.

Calling someone naive and offering zero analysis yourself just shows you made that post for your "sig money" rather than for any other reason.

Cheesy

ObscureBean

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That's very naive thinking. You obviously haven't delved deep enough with your analysis else you would understand that relinquishing control has to happen on all levels for it to mean anything at all. Everything around you has been built using control.

CIYAM

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Quote from: Btcvilla on March 08, 2015, 11:54:04 AM

Hopefully copyright and patents will change in the next few years.

To get back on topic - unfortunately I seriously doubt that as those who "own this property" are ever going to give that up (and I am not advocating to "take their property from them" as some seem to think).

I think our best hope is for things like creative commons, open source and blockchains that simply "don't care" about such antiquated ideas (i.e. they can hold on to Mikey Mouse to the bitter end but eventually a new character will replace it that isn't *owned* by anyone).

Btcvilla

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Quote from: CIYAM on March 08, 2015, 11:26:19 AM

Quote from: runpaint on March 07, 2015, 10:24:01 AM

Yes, most communists are totalitarians, and they take away free speech as soon as they get any power. Maybe you can't take away my rights yet, but you can sure force me to stop talking! That'll show me!

Now I am being accused of being a communist and a totalitarian - I guess this is just because I happen to live in China?

(you are almost amusing me now)

Don't feed the trolls..... Just ingore them and get back on topic.

Hopefully copyright and patents will change in the next few years.

CIYAM

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Quote from: runpaint on March 07, 2015, 10:24:01 AM

Yes, most communists are totalitarians, and they take away free speech as soon as they get any power. Maybe you can't take away my rights yet, but you can sure force me to stop talking! That'll show me!

Now I am being accused of being a communist and a totalitarian - I guess this is just because I happen to live in China?

(you are almost amusing me now)

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Quote from: runpaint on March 07, 2015, 10:24:01 AM

Yes, most communists are totalitarians, and they take away free speech as soon as they get any power. Maybe you can't take away my rights yet, but you can sure force me to stop talking! That'll show me!

Conveniently ignoring the fact that our capitalist corporate elite have been fighting tooth and nail to debase the internet for the last decade..

CIYAM

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Quote from: runpaint on March 07, 2015, 10:24:01 AM

You're the one who started the topic with a call to take away our personal property rights.

Hmm... good attempt at trolling perhaps but not really very interesting.

runpaint

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Quote from: CIYAM on March 06, 2015, 11:38:31 PM

I think the "discussion" about capitalism should probably belong in another topic.

You're the one who started the topic with a call to take away our personal property rights.

Quote

I do have a reputation for locking topics that I started

Yes, most communists are totalitarians, and they take away free speech as soon as they get any power. Maybe you can't take away my rights yet, but you can sure force me to stop talking! That'll show me!

CIYAM

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Quote from: Beliathon on March 07, 2015, 10:17:12 AM

Hell no, we hijacked this thread fair and square. You cannot simply steal it back from us!

I do have a reputation for locking topics that I started that run amok - but if you can entertain me then "let the show begin".

Cheesy

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Quote from: CIYAM on March 06, 2015, 11:38:31 PM

I think the "discussion" about capitalism should probably belong in another topic.

Hell no, we hijacked this thread fair and square. You cannot simply steal it back from us!

Also capitalism sucks the cheese from a goat's ballsack.

CIYAM

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I think the "discussion" about capitalism should probably belong in another topic.

And I do think that creative-commons is a great example of progress in the right direction.

In regards to "branding" there are plenty of obvious fake coffee shops in China whose store names are a lot like those of famous western chains. From my perspective the key thing is "the coffee" (and the free WiFi) so assuming they have good coffee and decent WiFi I don't really care if they are "the genuine article".

Beliathon

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Quote from: runpaint on March 06, 2015, 10:41:11 PM

Whatever comes after capitalism will have to be better, because capitalism is the worst.

Not because capitalism is the worst, although it is pretty awful. But because civilization socially evolves over time. Barbarism -> slavery -> feudalism -> capitalism -> whatever comes next.

I have absolutely no doubt that our grandchildren will inhabit a kinder, more compassionate world than we do. Barring any apocalypse scenario.

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Quote from: Beliathon on March 06, 2015, 10:27:57 PM

Try reading my words again, this time with comprehension. I said any future system would be superior to capitalism by necessity, while any past system would be just as bad as capitalism (or worse, such as feudalism or outright slavery).

Here are your words again:

Quote from: Beliathon on March 05, 2015, 08:40:49 PM

Capitalism wastes food on an industrial scale. Whatever comes after will by necessity be much more efficient at resource distribution.

Whatever comes after capitalism will have to be better, because capitalism is the worst. That's what they said before every communist revolution, and they were always wrong, and you are just as wrong.

Quote

any future system would be superior to capitalism by necessity, while any past system would be just as bad as capitalism (or worse, such as feudalism or outright slavery).

So everything will always be bad, and worse upon the next day's reflection, while nothing will ever be as good as tomorrow, which will never come. Brilliant.

Beliathon

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Quote from: runpaint on March 06, 2015, 09:21:04 PM

Quote from: Beliathon on March 06, 2015, 08:28:32 PM

Maybe you missed the memo, but the USSR dissolved 25 years ago.

But that's impossible, according to you. Because you said any other system would be superior to capitalism, and you're not wrong.

Try reading my words again, this time with comprehension. I said any future system would be superior to capitalism by necessity, while any past system would be just as bad as capitalism (or worse, such as feudalism or outright slavery).

runpaint

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Quote from: Beliathon on March 06, 2015, 08:28:32 PM

Maybe you missed the memo, but the USSR dissolved 25 years ago.

But that's impossible, according to you. Because you said any other system would be superior to capitalism, and you're not wrong. Therefore, the USSR is now the most prosperous nation in history.

Meanwhile, in the real world, you're wrong.

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Quote from: runpaint on March 06, 2015, 08:18:55 PM

But what if you're wrong

I'm not.

Quote from: runpaint on March 06, 2015, 08:18:55 PM

...like the USSR and North Korea.

Maybe you missed the memo, but the USSR dissolved 25 years ago. And do you seriously not recognize that both Russia and NK (and every other sovereign nation on Earth) have capitalism in 2015? This isn't 1960.

I'll grant you that North Korea is a special kind of fucked up for reasons I won't get into here, but they're still practicing capitalism... poorly.

runpaint

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Quote from: Beliathon on March 06, 2015, 07:25:43 PM

Quote from: runpaint on March 06, 2015, 07:21:07 PM

You make claims, such as "capitalism causes violence". Where is your evidence, or any reason at all, to support your assertions?

The evidence is all around you, you need only remove the mental blindfold the state has given you.

But what if you're wrong, and the evidence is all around you, and you need only remove the mental blindfold your indoctrination has given you?

Then we would need to check with other things besides "evidence that I can't see". So, it would be more like real examples that we can both see, like the USSR and North Korea.

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Quote from: jaysabi on March 06, 2015, 06:28:57 PM

Sorry I don't buy into your anti-capitalist excuse to use force on the unwilling.

What are you thoughts on using force to deny a hungry person from eating?

Quote from: runpaint on March 06, 2015, 07:21:07 PM

You make claims, such as "capitalism causes violence". Where is your evidence, or any reason at all, to support your assertions?

The evidence is all around you, you need only remove the mental blindfold the state has given you. We both know that no argument, no amount of evidence I provide here will change your mind. Still, for the benefit of others I will leave these here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Fruit_Company + http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides

For a basic introduction to the systemic violence of capitalism, I highly recommend Zinn's "A people's history of the United States" and John Gatto's "The Underground History of American Education", the latter of which you can read free here.

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Quote from: Beliathon on March 06, 2015, 06:03:38 PM

Your logic is dangerously shallow.

And you have no logic at all. You make claims, such as "capitalism causes violence". Where is your evidence, or any reason at all, to support your assertions?

I have provided examples of your ideas not working, and your only answer is "Just because my ideas have never worked before doesn't mean they couldn't work in the future." Yes, and they could also result in the same widespread death and destruction they've always caused before.

You want to gamble the lives of billions of people on these ideas - it would be bad enough if your ideas were unproven, but they're not unproven. They're proven to be wrong.

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Quote from: Beliathon on March 06, 2015, 05:02:20 PM

Quote from: jaysabi on March 06, 2015, 04:25:24 PM

I don't buy either of your premises. Capitalism at its core is voluntary exchange; an entirely voluntary system in which the initiation of violence harms all.

I see you are a true believer in the mythical sort of capitalism that has only ever existed in your imagination. The violence-free capitalist utopia. I read a lot about this capitalism on internet forums, yet strangely I have never read an account of it existing in history.

Remember that capitalism was born around four hundred years ago, a time when violence was much more normal and acceptable than it is today. Capitalism makes much more sense in 1700 than it does in 2015, because violence is becoming less and less legitimate.

Sorry I don't buy into your anti-capitalist excuse to use force on the unwilling. Do let me know if you ever come up with a viable alternative that is less violent than one based on voluntary exchange. I'll be waiting with bated breathe. [/s]

Topic: The end of copyright and patent is where we should be headed (Read 3958 times)