The fight over electric car batteries - page 4.

franky1

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Quote from: Kakmakr on December 26, 2022, 03:55:08 AM

Well, Elon Musk made sure that he cashed in on the possible shortage that might occur with batteries for electric vehicles, by building that massive factory. "Musk said Tesla would have capacity to produce 100 gigawatt hours of 4680 batteries this year, enough to power about 1.3 million cars,

thats building the "top-up garage(pit-stops)" supply/power plants store.. where they store energy to then distribute at night or on non-windy days to the cars that need energy to charge up when their home solar system is not getting energy on a clear sunny day

but to build 1.3m cars needs a further 1.3m batteries

an average car has a 75kwh battery. allowing for a optimum 4mile/kwh
(300mile range per charge)

1.3m cars end up needing 975,00,000 KWH
97500000kwh
97500mwh
97.5gwh

in total tesla would need 200GW to supply its power banks(pitstop storage/home store/power plants) and the cars

needing 200GW PER YEAR to have cars and their recharge source storage. is a 1.3m car a year thing

there are currently 260m cars in just america meaning to convert all cars would take 200 years

Kakmakr

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Well, Elon Musk made sure that he cashed in on the possible shortage that might occur with batteries for electric vehicles, by building that massive factory. "Musk said Tesla would have capacity to produce 100 gigawatt hours of 4680 batteries this year, enough to power about 1.3 million cars, and more than enough to supply production at factories in Texas and Germany." - Source : https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/musks-plan-tesla-built-batteries-has-an-acceleration-challenge-2022-03-11/

So that is Tesla's needs covered... but what about all the other EV manufacturers .... will China produce the rest of those? Roll Eyes

franky1

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when it comes to import bans
this is a environment decisions of transporting raw toxic chemicals.
the obvious solution is far cheaper and less paperwork/regulation
is to build the final product battery in the country the toxic material is mined in. and then ship the final SAFE product

this means US cant import lithium and make batteries. instead it has to import end-product batteries. or mine lithium domestically inside the US to make batteries inside the US

the added cost of US domestic mining and then domestic production of batteries is a large price hike of cost of batteries

adaseb

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Yes the biggest drawback to electric cars are the batteries. When they go bad it’s very costly to replace. Hence why the value drops when they reach a certain mileage. Even with smaller cars like the Chevy Bolt a battery replacement can be almost 5 figures or so.

This pretty will make many models disposable cars pretty much when they reach a certain mileage because without a proper battery they are worthless. With ice it’s different because you can almost buy an engine from another vehicle at a salvage auction, with batteries it doesn’t work like that.

Die_empty

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It might be strange to many people but I have never seen or touched an electric vehicle except on media devices. Sometimes I wonder how my continent would cope with electric vehicles due to the diverse economic and political challenges it is battling. My prediction is that petrol vehicles would still be available for more decades at least in developing nations.

Nations trying to protect their industries hurt other nations' economies because of the interconnectedness and interdependence created by globalization. Most nations depend on exports to other nations for economic survival. That is why it is important for trade ministers to always discuss and negotiate trade deals with other nations so that there should be a balanced trade relationship. This is because strict enforcement of economic nationalism policies might give rise to unhealthy competition and reckless trade embargoes between nations.

dothebeats

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China is currently leading when it comes to the production of lithium-free (at least that's what they claim to be) battery packs for electric vehicles. The tech is certainly there, but it's way cheaper to slap lithium into a battery pack and expect it to run as flawless as it can be because the process and the design is already established. For sure, EV manufacturers are actively setting their R&D team on fire pressuring them to find a better alternative than lithium, but for now that will be the case and I think people should embrace it whether they like it or not.

But what I don't understand is, why are car manufacturers angry with companies and governments coming up with some solutions to a long-standing problem about vehicle emission and waste? Governments supporting the cause of EV may be concerning to petrol powered cars but not the environment in the long run—if they find a solution to replacing lithium with other minerals that is.

hatshepsut93

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Quote from: davis196 on December 25, 2022, 07:48:19 AM

Why would supporting your own industry "worry" your allies? I don't have any information about the governments in Canada, UK or the western European countries being worried because USA supports it's own Electric Vehicle industry. How did you come up with this theory?

https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/08/25/us-tax-credits-for-electric-vehicles-called-discriminatory-sparking-talks-of-a-possible-tr

Quote from: davis196 on December 25, 2022, 07:48:19 AM

Nobody is saying that electric vehicles are the future(maybe except the most fanatic EV supporters). Hydrogen fueled cars also have potential.
The future of the automobile transport would most likely be a mixture between electric vehicles and hydrogen vehicles. This might happen after several decades. Gasoline and diesel won't be dumped soon.

The market thinks that it is. Look at the marketcap of Tesla, compare it with any combustion engine or hydrogen car. It seems like right now electric cars are much closer to wide adoption than hydrogen cars.

davis196

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Quote

The US is making a lot of moves for helping domestic manufacturers, which worries its allies

Why would supporting your own industry "worry" your allies? I don't have any information about the governments in Canada, UK or the western European countries being worried because USA supports it's own Electric Vehicle industry. How did you come up with this theory?
Nobody is saying that electric vehicles are the future(maybe except the most fanatic EV supporters). Hydrogen fueled cars also have potential.
The future of the automobile transport would most likely be a mixture between electric vehicles and hydrogen vehicles. This might happen after several decades. Gasoline and diesel won't be dumped soon. The Li Ion batteries will have to be replaced by solid state batteries or graphene batteries.

jackg

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I don't think there's a lack of lithium, it's an element that's damaging to the environment to extract iirc and it's quite hard to extract too. Given the circumstances export bans aren't that unreasonable, I think there'll be a better battery that comes out that can be mass produced better than lithium can (and I think that's the hope as some cars are said to have to travel 250,000 miles to have the same emissions of an electric car battery, but once the lithium is extracted and made into a battery, it can likely be well recycled - with renewables too).

I think there should be a crackdown on countries using third countries to avoid taxes too to send from one to another (I think this is done a lot with electronics and pharmaceuticals at least).

hatshepsut93

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Since electric vehicles are the future, there's a lot of attention for their development, and a battery is currently the most important part of the vehicle, because we still have problems with storing large amounts of electrical energy.

The US is making a lot of moves for helping domestic manufacturers, which worries its allies

Quote from: https://www.politico.eu/article/electric-car-rekindle-transatlantic-trade-war/

The big idea is that a U.S. consumer can claim back $7,500 of the value of an electric car from their tax bill. But to qualify for that credit, the car needs to be assembled in North America and contain a battery with a certain percentage of the metals mined or recycled in the U.S., Canada or Mexico. Those rules become more strict over time, giving American producers time to prepar

Quote from: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/19/biden-administration-awards-2point8-billion-in-grants-for-electric-vehicle-battery-manufacturing.html

President Joe Biden announced $2.8 billion in grants for 20 companies to produce batteries for electric vehicles in the United States.

The grants are being allocated through the Department of Energy with funds from the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law to companies in 12 states. The funding will go toward the creation of battery-grade materials including lithium, graphite and nickel.

Zimbabwe also decided to take advantage and try to boost its economy with some protectionism

Quote from: https://www.news18.com/news/world/develop-batteries-for-electric-vehicles-here-zimbabwe-bans-export-of-raw-lithium-6679645.html

Zimbabwe earlier this week stopped the export of raw lithium from its mines and said that it wants cash in on the value addition and also stop losing billions to foreign companies via mineral proceeds, news agencies reported.

On December 20, Zimbabwe’s ministry of Mines and Mining Development in a directive published under the nation’s Base Minerals Export Control Act said that the move was made to “ensure that the vision of the president to see the country becoming an upper-middle income economy has been realized.”

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