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Topic: The Halving - Good or Bad for Bitcoin? - page 6. (Read 83082 times)

legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 1145
December 30, 2016, 12:20:54 PM
Exactly like i though what you did.
So take nov. 2012 price. Extrapolate to today 12$x10/21 <= 6$ Huh

That would be the price in November, 2012 if all coins had been mined by then. But today is December, 2016 (if you have somehow forgotten it). You can't just take and throw away all the demand that has piled up since then, and which we assumed to be the same as it has been through the whole time span of 4 years (and don't forget that the elasticity of price is assumed to be constant too)...

As you can see, your reasoning is not sustainable

Why did you write this then:

Quote
Therefore, it would equal 12+(675-12)/2=~343.5 dollars per coin...

That would have been the price at the moment when the last bitcoin had been mined, namely, in July 2016. I guess I know what you are going to say next, i.e. how the price could have grown from 343.5 dollars to over 700 dollars in just half a year (from July through December 2016). The answer is pretty simple, and in fact I have already answered it in one of my previous posts. The price would have been surging because there would be no more bitcoins mined after July, 2016, just like it would have been lagging behind before that date simply because of the reward being twice as high its real value...

If you don't understand something, maybe, it is better to ask, after all?

Remember the 12$ from nov. 2012 and the 675 $ from july 2016.
Does something ring?
Read your post before that one again

I don't get your point

We have a starting price of 12 dollars in November, 2012, when the mining reward had been halved from 50 to 25 BTC. The price in July, 2016, at the next halving, was, according to you, 675 dollars per coin, with the rise being 675-12=663 dollars. We assume that the halving was cancelled in November, 2012, and the reward had been left intact (i.e. the same 50 BTC). Since we also assume that all things remain the same between these two dates (apart from the reward itself), the supply of coins would have been twice as much. Consequently, that allows us to assume that the price change within this time span would be half as much, i.e. 663/2=331.5 dollars. If we add this change to the starting price, we will get 343.5 dollars per coin in July, 2016


Your initial statement was that if every bitcoin was mined now the price would be three fourths of its current.
This assumption is based on nothing except wishful thinking.

The counter example is easy to understand you just need to take different dates of the bitcoin timeline and extrapolate.
(Indeed you might be less then several orders of magnitude off, but that doesnt really fucking matter)


legendary
Activity: 3486
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
December 30, 2016, 12:03:15 PM
Exactly like i though what you did.
So take nov. 2012 price. Extrapolate to today 12$x10/21 <= 6$ Huh

That would be the price in November, 2012 if all coins had been mined by then. But today is December, 2016 (if you have somehow forgotten it). You can't just take and throw away all the demand that has piled up since then, and which we assumed to be the same as it has been through the whole time span of 4 years (and don't forget that the elasticity of price is assumed to be constant too)...

As you can see, your reasoning is not sustainable

Why did you write this then:

Quote
Therefore, it would equal 12+(675-12)/2=~343.5 dollars per coin...

That would have been the price at the moment when the last bitcoin had been mined, namely, in July 2016. I guess I know what you are going to say next, i.e. how the price could have grown from 343.5 dollars to over 700 dollars in just half a year (from July through December 2016). The answer is pretty simple, and in fact I have already answered it in one of my previous posts. The price would have been surging because there would be no more bitcoins mined after July, 2016, just like it would have been lagging behind before that date simply because of the reward being twice as high its real value...

If you don't understand something, maybe, it is better to ask, after all?

Remember the 12$ from nov. 2012 and the 675 $ from july 2016.
Does something ring?
Read your post before that one again

I don't get your point

We have a starting price of 12 dollars in November, 2012, when the mining reward had been halved from 50 to 25 BTC. The price in July, 2016, at the next halving, was, according to you, 675 dollars per coin, with the rise being 675-12=663 dollars. We assume that the halving was cancelled in November, 2012, and the reward had been left intact (i.e. the same 50 BTC). Since we also assume that all things remain the same between these two dates (apart from the reward itself), the supply of coins would have been twice as much. Consequently, that allows us to assume that the price change within this time span would be half as much, i.e. 663/2=331.5 dollars. If we add this change to the starting price, we will get 343.5 dollars per coin in July, 2016
legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 1145
December 30, 2016, 11:44:09 AM
Exactly like i though what you did.
So take nov. 2012 price. Extrapolate to today 12$x10/21 <= 6$ Huh

That would be the price in November, 2012 if all coins had been mined by then. But today is December, 2016 (if you have somehow forgotten it). You can't just take and throw away all the demand that has piled up since then, and which we assumed to be the same as it has been through the whole time span of 4 years (and don't forget that the elasticity of price is assumed to be constant too)...

As you can see, your reasoning is not sustainable

Why did you write this then:

Quote
Therefore, it would equal 12+(675-12)/2=~343.5 dollars per coin...

That would have been the price at the moment when the last bitcoin had been mined, namely, in July 2016. I guess I know what you are going to say next, i.e. how the price could have grown from 343.5 dollars to over 700 dollars in just half a year (from July through December 2016). The answer is pretty simple, and in fact I have already answered it in one of my previous posts. The price would have been surging because there would be no more bitcoins mined after July, 2016, just like it would have been lagging behind before that date simply because of the reward being twice as high its real value...

If you don't understand something, maybe, it is better to ask, after all?

Remember the 12$ from nov. 2012 and the 675 $ from july 2016.
Does something ring?
Read your post before this one again.

Lol Grin
legendary
Activity: 3486
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
December 30, 2016, 11:34:45 AM
Exactly like i though what you did.
So take nov. 2012 price. Extrapolate to today 12$x10/21 <= 6$ Huh

That would be the price in November, 2012 if all coins had been mined by then. But today is December, 2016 (if you have somehow forgotten it). You can't just take and throw away all the demand that has piled up since then, and which we assumed to be the same as it has been through the whole time span of 4 years (and don't forget that the elasticity of price is assumed to be constant too)...

As you can see, your reasoning is not sustainable

Why did you write this then:

Quote
Therefore, it would equal 12+(675-12)/2=~343.5 dollars per coin...

That would have been the price at the moment when the last bitcoin had been mined, namely, in July 2016. I guess I know what you are going to say next, i.e. how the price could have grown from 343.5 dollars to over 700 dollars in just half a year (from July through December 2016). The answer is pretty simple, and in fact I have already answered it in one of my previous posts. The price would have been surging because there would be no more bitcoins mined after July, 2016, just like it would have been lagging behind before that date simply because of the reward being twice as high its real value...

If you don't understand something, maybe, it is better to ask, after all?
legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 1145
December 30, 2016, 11:15:47 AM
Exactly like i though what you did.
So take nov. 2012 price. Extrapolate to today 12$x10/21 <= 6$ Huh

That would be the price in November, 2012 if all coins had been mined by then. But today is December, 2016 (if you have somehow forgotten it). You can't just take and throw away all the demand that has piled up since then, and which we assumed to be the same as it has been through the whole time span of 4 years (and don't forget that the elasticity of price is assumed to be constant too)...

As you can see, your reasoning is not sustainable

Why did you write this then:


Quote
Therefore, it would equal 12+(675-12)/2=~343.5 dollars per coin...


I guess you didnt knew what you wrote.


Allright then lets change to your new narrative.
It doesnt even make sense to talk about it because it has zero value like talking about the weight of bird shit in your garden.
You omit every economic parameter which leads to totaly wrong results.

It makes even less sense now.
Dude you should visit a medical facility. You must have some mental disease for sure.


legendary
Activity: 3486
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
December 30, 2016, 10:57:19 AM
Exactly like i though what you did.
So take nov. 2012 price. Extrapolate to today 12$x10/21 <= 6$ Huh

That would be the price in November, 2012 if all coins had been mined by then. But today is December, 2016 (if you have somehow forgotten it). You can't just take and throw away all the demand that has piled up since then, and which we assumed to be the same as it has been through the whole time span of 4 years (and don't forget that the elasticity of price is assumed to be constant too). In other words, we would have been at about the same price of ~$700 today (if all things would have been as they were, apart from the number of coins mined, of course)...

As you can see, your reasoning is not sustainable, while your logic is weak, very weak
legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 1145
December 30, 2016, 10:48:55 AM


Since by July 2016 all coins should have been mined (remember the reward halving would remain the same after November, 2012), no new coins would be entering the market. But as we assumed that the demand remains the same, right now we would have the price equal to the current price multiplied by the number of coins mined by now and divided by the total number of coins. If we take the current price at ~$950 and the number of coins already mined ~16M, we will get the price equal to 950*16/21=~$723 if all coins had been mined by July, which is roughly three fourths (950*3/4=712.5). Just in case, you have yet to explain what is your logic behind claiming that the price would be a few orders of magnitude lower than it is today...

You should understand that just stating or asserting something will not suffice, no matter how loud you voice your claims

Exactly like i though what you did.
So take nov. 2012 price. Extrapolate to today 12$x10/21 <= 6$ Huh

6$/675$= 1/112 = 2 orders of magnitude.

Duhhhh..... Roll Eyes
legendary
Activity: 3486
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
December 30, 2016, 10:41:55 AM



Ok just take the halving date. 28.11.2012
~10 million btc mined
~price was less then 15$ (like around 12 but w/e)

Fast forward to july 2016.

~15,75 million coins mined
~price 675$

December 2016

~16,1 million btc mined
~price 950$

[...] Therefore, it would equal 12+(675-12)/2=~343.5 dollars per coin...


Explain me your maths

What?
Where the hell did you derive that term from?

What term are you talking about?

And how does that formula compute a price of 600$ for 21 million coins now?!  ("Three fourths of the current price")

Since by July 2016 all coins should have been mined (remember the mining reward would have remained unchanged after November, 2012, i.e. 50 BTC), no new coins would be entering the market. But as we assumed that the demand remains the same, right now we would have the price equal to the current price multiplied by the number of coins mined by now and divided by the total number of coins (which would have been mined but for halving). If we take the current price at ~$950 and the number of coins already mined ~16M, we will get the price equal to 950*16/21=~$723 if all coins had been mined by July, which is roughly three fourths of the current price (950*3/4=712.5). Just in case, you have yet to explain your logic behind claiming that the price would be a few orders of magnitude lower than it is today (i.e. below $10 per coin)...

You should understand that just stating or asserting something will not suffice, no matter how loud you voice your claims
sr. member
Activity: 490
Merit: 250
🤖UBEX.COM 🤖
December 30, 2016, 10:22:28 AM
As the title says, is the halving good or bad for the price of bitcoin?

The halving will decrease the supply of bitcoin, whole keeping the demand, so that would make bitcoin worth more.

But the halving will make mining profitibilty worse, meaning less miners, a higher trans. fee, and maybe causing a smaller demand.

What's your verdict?

I think bitcoin will still go up, as the fees might, let's say, double, but that's still a smaller transaction fee than through the banks...

In my opinion, the halving is really good for bitcoin. Because the price of bitcoin become increase so high and continue until now. Well, it's because Christmas too. I think there is no bad for bitcoin, maybe it affect the services that using bitcoin, because their salary will reduce.
legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 1145
December 30, 2016, 09:51:50 AM



Ok just take the halving date. 28.11.2012
~10 million btc mined
~price was less then 15$ (like around 12 but w/e)

Fast forward to july 2016.

~15,75 million coins mined
~price 675$

December 2016

~16,1 million btc mined
~price 950$

[...] Therefore, it would equal 12+(675-12)/2=~343.5 dollars per coin...


Explain me your maths

What?
Where the hell did you derive that term from?
You just took the price from the final date and halved it??? Are you trolling me?
And how does that formula compute a price of 600$ for 21 million coins now?!  ("Three fourths of the current price")
Nothing what you say makes sense.


Dont tell me about grammar when i just quoted your money token post full of your verbal diarrhea.
It is a wonder you are able to string a sentence together.

hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 505
December 30, 2016, 06:54:51 AM
The halving actually is a great thing, the price will rise then and more people will get interested in bitcoins.
legendary
Activity: 3486
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
December 30, 2016, 06:06:08 AM
That makes no sense.
Take a random date in 2012 and then extrapolate - we should have a price several magnitudes lower then now

If we take 2012 as a starting point (namely, when the halving occurred, I don't know the exact date), we would have had 50 bitcoins as a mining reward instead of 25. If we assume that the only supply of coins to the market is through mining, it would basically mean (given constant elasticity of price) that by July, 2016, we would have had Bitcoin price at half as much of what it was in reality at the time. But in July all coins would have been mined if I'm not mistaken (i.e. all 21M). Since then there would no supply of new coins to the market altogether, and the price would most likely be where I estimated, i.e. at three fourths of its current value...

And where did you see magnitudes lower here?


Ok just take the halving date. 28.11.2012
~10 million btc mined
~price was less then 15$ (like around 12 but w/e)

Fast forward to july 2016.

~15,75 million coins mined
~price 675$

December 2016

~16,1 million btc mined
~price 950$

Okay, in November 2012 the price was $12 with 10M coins mined. Mining reward was 50 BTC back then, it got halved and equaled 25 BTC from then on till July 2016. If we assume that only the supply of mined coins determines the price (demand and other things remain the same as they were at any moment within this time span) as well as price elasticity is constant (i.e. it doesn't change with the price), and this supply now equals 50 coins (instead of 25), we can also assume that the price will grow only half of what it grew in reality. Therefore, it would equal 12+(675-12)/2=~343.5 dollars per coin...

There are many ifs in this reasoning, but it has at least some ground

Explain me your maths

Explain you? Have you consulted your linguist as I asked?
hero member
Activity: 562
Merit: 500
December 30, 2016, 05:44:04 AM
Without the halving at bitcoin, and allowing all people to get the same reward of 50 bitcoin block, we would be with all coins mined and the possible value of bitcoin would be around 100-300 dollars, i doubt we would see bitcoin achieving bigger values, soo yes the halving does have a huge influence over bitcoin value.

this doesn't make any sense because it is not just about mining all the coins as fast as possible, it is more about reducing the speed of the inflation and let the miners be able to earn a nice reward as the adoption grows. if we mine it all and then want to rely on fees for mining reward miners will end up with nothing and bitcoin is not yet adopted so price is still low. but with this way (with halving) the process is slowed down and miners are still gaining good reward.

It's weird how excited people get over halvings as though it is an automatic guarantee of it being valuable profit wise.
legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 1145
December 30, 2016, 05:33:24 AM
That makes no sense.
Take a random date in 2012 and then extrapolate - we should have a price several magnitudes lower then now

If we take 2012 as a starting point (namely, when the halving occurred, I don't know the exact date), we would have had 50 bitcoins as a mining reward instead of 25. If we assume that the only supply of coins to the market is through mining, it would basically mean (given constant elasticity of price) that by July, 2016, we would have had Bitcoin price at half as much of what it was in reality at the time. But in July all coins would have been mined if I'm not mistaken (i.e. all 21M). Since then there would no supply of new coins to the market altogether, and the price would most likely be where I estimated, i.e. at three fourths of its current value...

And where did you see magnitudes lower here?


Ok just take the halving date. 28.11.2012
~10 million btc mined
~price was less then 15$ (like around 12 but w/e)

Fast forward to july 2016.

~15,75 million coins mined
~price 675$

December 2016

~16,1 million btc mined
~price 950$


Explain me your maths.

(Extrapolate to 15 million coins makes it less then 10$ see the order of magnitude?
Extrapolate to 20 million makes it less then 7.5$)
legendary
Activity: 3486
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
December 30, 2016, 05:07:00 AM
Without the halving at bitcoin, and allowing all people to get the same reward of 50 bitcoin block, we would be with all coins mined and the possible value of bitcoin would be around 100-300 dollars, i doubt we would see bitcoin achieving bigger values, soo yes the halving does have a huge influence over bitcoin value.

this doesn't make any sense because it is not just about mining all the coins as fast as possible, it is more about reducing the speed of the inflation and let the miners be able to earn a nice reward as the adoption grows. if we mine it all and then want to rely on fees for mining reward miners will end up with nothing and bitcoin is not yet adopted so price is still low. but with this way (with halving) the process is slowed down and miners are still gaining good reward.

That will never happen

Indeed, after the last bitcoin would be mined in that case, mining Bitcoin would be no more profitable for the majority of miners. But after they leave eventually, the difficultly will readjust at a lower level (after about two weeks), and mining will be profitable again, at least for most efficient miners with the cheapest electricity rates, since a less number of miners will collect all the fees. It is sort of natural selection where only the most efficient survive
legendary
Activity: 1638
Merit: 1163
Where is my ring of blades...
December 30, 2016, 04:54:21 AM
Without the halving at bitcoin, and allowing all people to get the same reward of 50 bitcoin block, we would be with all coins mined and the possible value of bitcoin would be around 100-300 dollars, i doubt we would see bitcoin achieving bigger values, soo yes the halving does have a huge influence over bitcoin value.

this doesn't make any sense because it is not just about mining all the coins as fast as possible, it is more about reducing the speed of the inflation and let the miners be able to earn a nice reward as the adoption grows. if we mine it all and then want to rely on fees for mining reward miners will end up with nothing and bitcoin is not yet adopted so price is still low. but with this way (with halving) the process is slowed down and miners are still gaining good reward.
legendary
Activity: 3486
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
December 30, 2016, 04:47:36 AM
That makes no sense.
Take a random date in 2012 and then extrapolate - we should have a price several magnitudes lower then now

If we take 2012 as a starting point (namely, when the halving occurred, I don't know the exact date), we would have had 50 bitcoins as a mining reward instead of 25. If we assume that the only supply of coins to the market is through mining, it would basically mean (given constant elasticity of price) that by July, 2016, we would have had Bitcoin price at half as much of what it was in reality at the time. But in July all coins would have been mined if I'm not mistaken (i.e. all 21M). Since then there would no supply of new coins to the market altogether, and the price would most likely be where I estimated, i.e. at three fourths of its current value...

And where did you see magnitudes lower here?
legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 1145
December 29, 2016, 04:20:33 PM
Without the halving at bitcoin, and allowing all people to get the same reward of 50 bitcoin block, we would be with all coins mined and the possible value of bitcoin would be around 100-300 dollars, i doubt we would see bitcoin achieving bigger values, soo yes the halving does have a huge influence over bitcoin value.

We simply can't know that for certain

Just like we can't know if the price would be exactly the same since it can be either way or somewhere in between. We can only speculate on this matter, but I'm still inclined to think that the price most likely wouldn't be the same. Is there any viable reason to think that the price could be even higher than it is now? This is also possible, for example, thanks to, say, the Winklevoss twins or people like them buying up plenty of bitcoins when the price was in lower hundreds

Right that is why doge is valued so high.
That must be the case for sure

It looks like you have posted in the wrong thread

This thread is not about cancellation of halving and allowing limitless supply of new coins (as is the case with Dogecoin, with some reservations), which is what you seem to erroneously imply. There are only 21M bitcoins to be mined, and three fourths of them have already been mined. If all of them had been mined by now (i.e. all 21 millions), we could well expect the Bitcoin price to be the same three fourths of its current price (if we assume that all coins are supplied to the market). Anything beyond that would be pure speculation bordering on wishful thinking

That makes no sense.
Take a random date in 2012 and then extrapolate - we should have a price several magnitudes lower then now.
hero member
Activity: 686
Merit: 521
December 29, 2016, 04:08:26 PM
Am not really a technical person when it comes to this but the block halving process seems to have helped in bitcoin gaining value as there are less miners now who can easily dump their mined coins for fiat which is a good thing, as a high market price is preserved.
legendary
Activity: 3486
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
December 29, 2016, 03:47:40 PM
Without the halving at bitcoin, and allowing all people to get the same reward of 50 bitcoin block, we would be with all coins mined and the possible value of bitcoin would be around 100-300 dollars, i doubt we would see bitcoin achieving bigger values, soo yes the halving does have a huge influence over bitcoin value.

We simply can't know that for certain

Just like we can't know if the price would be exactly the same since it can be either way or somewhere in between. We can only speculate on this matter, but I'm still inclined to think that the price most likely wouldn't be the same. Is there any viable reason to think that the price could be even higher than it is now? This is also possible, for example, thanks to, say, the Winklevoss twins or people like them buying up plenty of bitcoins when the price was in lower hundreds

Right that is why doge is valued so high.
That must be the case for sure

It looks like you have posted in the wrong thread

This thread is not about cancellation of halving and allowing limitless supply of new coins (as is the case with Dogecoin, given some reservations), which is what you seem to erroneously imply. There are only 21M bitcoins to be mined, and three fourths of them have already been mined. If all of them had been mined by now (i.e. all 21 millions), we could well expect the Bitcoin price to be the same three fourths of its current price (if we assume that all coins are supplied to the market). Anything beyond that would be pure speculation bordering on wishful thinking
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