Topic: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. - page 13. (Read 36556 times)

>implying miners aren't themselves driven solely by monetary gain

I have ordered from batch #2.

Reading this forum, can I expect to see my ASIC delivered even if you do not sell batch #3 ?
I understand that it is like sell batch #2 to ship batch #1, sell batch #3 to ship batch #2, etc...

I put my trust and money on Avalon team, waiting for product, every day of delay is pure lost in real world.

At this price, I believe they could sell them right away, there will be customers.
I also feel for those who did not put order in #1 or #2 batch.
Price is risky, yes... and dont know how to approve it, but after batch#3 there could be batch #4 with price of 10k$ and so on, you will again feel sorry for not ordered #3 batch units.

Do not really know, this is all a betting situation with high stakes.

I've seen a lot of people recently posing the question, why would ASIC vendors sell a machine for $1500 that make 6-8k a month? I think this answers the question pretty clearly, They wouldn't! What makes you guys think Avalon wants to sell you a device that will return it's value in 1-2 weeks when they could easily build the machines for themselves and make much more? On top of that, there's no competition right now.

OK, so "doubly prosperous" number comes up again. Couple of months ago we used to speculate that the Avalon will have 88 chips.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1402667

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_in_Chinese_culture#Eight

This is probably going to be a very firm price then.

Which reminded me of Telly Savalas in Capricorn One:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8jJxKTFXPc

It is only 1'44", well worth watching.

EG: Mr Albaine, how much do you charge to dust a field?
TS: $25.
EG: I'd like to hire your plane.
TS: That'll be a $100.
EG: You said you charged $25?
TS: $25 to dust a field, but you ain't got no field because you ain't no farmer, which means you ain't poor and I think you're a pervert!
EG: Okay, $100.
TS: $125.
EG: What?
TS: Because you said yes to a $100 too quick, which means you can afford a $125.

Even if they did, you'd still probably receive it sooner than you'd receive a $5,000 BFL order made today.  ASICMiner may or may not make their boards available to the public between now and then and if helveticoin pans out, its partners may or may not deliver units before August.  

No-one's putting a gun to people's head and making them buy an Avalon - no-one needs an ASIC ASAP, those who want them ASAP are driven by self-interest, not altruism.  If people don't like Avalon's terms, they can wait for someone else to offer terms they find more acceptable (just as people can choose whether or not to seek a refund from BFL).

You keep missing your shipping deadlines.  You say you're going to ship in May, but how do we know you won't ship in say August because you decide you need another vacation?

No risk no reward, bruh. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

I'm ready to buy at least one as soon as the orders open, i'm going to try to get a loan to buy as many as i can, should be a lot less competiton on the order page with weak chumps being too afraid to pull the trigger.

they aren't trust you, in business nothing called trust it's concept about taking risk they can afford
these mined when difficult was low and they have a lot coin

one easy to earn hundred of coin if they invest about three thousand in 2011, $3000 just a gaming machine  =))

6000USD i'm gonna buy 10 7970 for 7GH than take this risk =))

GL with that Dr, people who dare to take risk may have high return, or lose them all, game always like that in thousand year

Dear Bitsyncom,
I am completely taken aback on this.  I can not see how this investment now makes any sense whatsoever.
The only way I would see this being worthwhile is if you were shipping the units right now but you are not.  You have now taken the risk factor of your product to a whole new unprecedented level.  Let me make some points.
1. No confirmed shipping time
2. Not even all of batch 1 has been received
3. 0 guarantee that the unit will work upon arrival.
4. As stated on the website no tech support.
5. No refunds.
6. No returns of non working units.
7. Good chance difficulty is going to be above 10mill(batch 2 alone will add over 40 TH/s)
8. BFL may one day actually ship
9. BTC could crash after unit is paid for now costing buying a ton more and Roi becomes non existent.
10. If BTC continues  to go up before product orders it is costing even more.
11. There is absolutely no guarantee I would even receive my unit(s)

So *if* a unit was received  and *if* difficulty is less than 10 mill and *if* BFL does not ship...... ( could go on with the *if*s but will not)
You are now asking customers to take on a substantially larger risk than before at a much lower Roi.
I thought  I read somewhere  a few months ago that the idea behind avalon was not about making money but an attempt get get more people into bitcoin and helping secure the network.  This move served to the exact opposite effect.  You are putting the units in to the hands of a select few allowing them more hashing power and turning your back on people like me who are new to bitcoin. I had a genuine interest in running these machines with the hope I would  at least my initial investment back and any money on top was a bonus but not expected.  Some friends and I were going to buy up to 4 units expecting them to cost between  2000-2500 but now we are all backing out.  I did attempt to purchase back in batch 2 but was unable to secure enough BTC in time to make even a 1 unit purchase.  You talk about people not trusting you and saying you are going to fail but why would they trust you?  You had no delivered product until recently, and provided no guarantee to any customer of working units or refund. I had faith in your product and was willing to go all in with what I can afford being a father of 4 kids under 6 years of age but now you have shattered my faith by asking this much money per unit.  Being of sound mind I cannot logically justify buying a unit under these insanely  risky conditions.  You talk as though the people here are greedy for wanting a reasonable  price on one of these units but fail to see how much it makes you look greedy for asking such a price. It almost seems you expect everyone to be ok with the fact that they may never see an ROI  and to solely  do this for the good of the network,  forgetting  that monetary gain is a primary factor  that will  allow this network to become strong.  As I said earlier  I would be absolutely content running 1 or multiple machines and only getting my invested amount and power costs back because I have found bitcoin fascinating.
Unless another company  comes out with a reasonable product and price I am out if bitcoin for good.

No offense  but I can't help feeling   you have turned around completely and are now driven solely  by monetary  gain.

I do respect what you have been able to accomplish  with avalon  and hope the best for your future  endeavors.

(p's sorry about the formatting ad I typed this on my phone)

I am asic less. So i am watching from the outside. But what i want to say is i will be really happy when this asic craze is behind us as it causes so much angst, greed, unhappiness, etc... It felt so diff when gpu was the mad crazy thing as ppl were all on a pretty even field. Plenty gpu for all in many cases. Sure sites sold out but a week later there was more. Ppl made cool spreadsherts showing best options, sharing info to assist others, fun in building your kit to mine.

Now it is gimme your money peeps and you will get ur shit when i feel like getting to it. Ppl who have make bank, those who do not are left out yet wish to participate and a meaningful level hashing speed wise. Scum company folding, another with constant excuses, and a private project with much success. So much for the mining community of bitcoin. It is broken at the moment from the majorities perspective. The minority tho... Best of times.

Jealous? Sure a bit. But at this point and after watching all of this.. It just appears sad. It was more fun before. Everyone was pretty darn happy. Cest la vie.

Thats the goal at this point yea.

From the very start, Yifu has been clear about the fact that Avalon never really wanted to retail complete units to end users.  They'd probably be thrilled if they could find an integrator who wanted to produce their own units using Avalon's chips and/or boards and they could just deal B2B rather than with end users.

It's pretty much the failure of other ASIC vendors to deliver a working retail unit yet which has created this situation.  When you're making something to order, you can charge whatever the market will bear.  If they've misjudged the market, then they won't be able to sell out Batch 3.

Ah folks, do the math - they don't want to sell, they will mine themselfs.

+1 Quoted for posterity.   

That was the point of my piss take, he says we don't trust Avalon so have to pay more, but to buy with Bitcoin you have to trust your supplier!

Now if you gave trust discount for paying in BTC, but higher price for card/paypal payment, that would make sense.  

Well played Avalon.

Ok iľl believe you and your company.. i also want to implement bitcoins to my eshop, cause i believe to this curency. Also i wanted to order avalon in batch 3, but your price of $5000 is not reachable for me right now.. I was expecting price about $2000 so i wanted to borrow from my mother in law.. but +$5000 i dont have and neither she.
I understand that roi should be about a month.. if someone decides to support this bnitcoin network with mining(like i did) and gets some cash/bitcoins for that it is nice.. but now i just can afford to spend +5k USD
right now i'm sad of this.. so my only way to support this network is to mine with gpu, without any reward.. or to gamble with BFL

i'm thinking they should have had batch 2 price as the price their asking for batch 3...maybe their just trying to get some $$ they lost because they didn't charge so much for batch 1 & 2...

yes, batch #2 delivery as soon as possible, please ;-)


Then perhaps there are other ways of contributing like buying BTC and holding on to them


You have seen the light...

If this is treated as a pure BTC play it actually makes a lot of sense. One invests 88 BTC and one expects a return of capital in BTC terms over a 1 - 3 month period. I purchased a batch #2 unit and at the time looked at it as a strict BTC play. Delivery times are of course crucial in this analysis not only for Avalon but also for the competition since a significant part of the return will occur shortly after delivery.

Now is it really a strict BTC play since there is also an implied fixed rate to CNY of 1 BTC = 360 CNY while the current rate is more like 1 BTC = 400 CNY. http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/btcnCNY.html This is significant because a significant increase of this rate will also influence the domestic market in China and consequently impact the overall difficulty. So it would make more sense if the BTC/CNY rate changes to either allow those outside of China to pay by wire transfer in CNY or set the domestic price in CNY based on the market price of BTC/CNY at the time of the sale.