The Lightning Network FAQ - page 18.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: Rath_ on February 24, 2022, 01:28:51 PM

Nothing is really revealed at that moment.

I mean when one tries to cheat by broadcasting an outdated commitment transaction. As far as I've understood, the cheater needs both signatures to spend from the force-closed multi-sig address.

I'm typing this example to ensure that I get it.

1. Alice opens a 0.1 BTC channel with Bob.
2. Alice wants to send him 0.02 BTC, so she signs a transaction with two outputs: A) to_local (that can be spent by her after x blocks) and B) to_remote that can be spent by Bob instantly.
3. Alice sends him the commitment_signed message, which contains her signature.
4. Bob responds with revoke_and_ack, where he's inserted his new commitment point (for the next revocation public key) and the secret for the previous commitment so that Alice can punish him in case he cheats. (Which wouldn't make sense in our case as he'd earn 0 sats)
5. Bob sends her the commitment_signed message, which contains his signature.
6. Alice responds with revoke_and_ack where she's inserted her new commitment point and her secret for the previous commitment.

Is it correct? I confess that the terminology is hard to grasp.

dkbit98

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Quote from: DaveF on February 24, 2022, 07:05:09 AM

Interesting, but it's an esim so unless you can get one of the listed phones anonymously it can still be tied back to you.

You can just buy any used smartphone that supports eSIM, for example Google Pixel 2, or newer models, some Huawei, Samsung, Oppo or other models.
Even some computers are supporting eSIM, like Microsoft Surface, Acer Swift, HP Elitebook, some Lenovo Yoga models, etc.
I never used it myself but I think it's great for privacy and good use case for Lightning.

Rath_

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Merit: 3139

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on February 21, 2022, 04:49:23 PM

They lack knowledge of revocationbase_priv, right? So how can they calculate it?

revocationbase_priv = revocation_basepoint_secret

Commitment transactions are asymmetrical. Here's what happens when A wants to update.

A constructs B's commitment transaction. Let's assume that it has only 2 outputs ("to_local" and "to_remote"). "to_local" output is delayed. "to_remote" output can be spent immediately.

In B's commitment transaction, "to_local" can be spent by B after a delay and "to_remote" refunds A their coins. In this case, A uses their "revocation_basepoint" and B's "per_commitment_point" to calculate the revocation public key.

A sends "commitment_signed", which includes the signatures for that transaction, to B. Once B verifies if the signature is valid, they can send "revoke_and_ack" which includes "per_commitment_secret" used to generate "per_commitment_point" for the previous commitment transaction, and "next_per_commitment_point" which A will need in the future to construct the next B's commitment transaction.

Code: (https://github.com/lightning/bolts/blob/master/02-peer-protocol.md#completing-the-transition-to-the-updated-state-revoke_and_ack)

    type: 133 (revoke_and_ack)
    data:
        [channel_id:channel_id]
        [32*byte:per_commitment_secret]
        [point:next_per_commitment_point]

A is now able to generate revocation private key for B's previous commitment transaction as they know B's "per_commitment_secret". B repeats the same process for A's commitment transaction. They use B's "revocation_basepoint" and A's "per_commitment_point" for the revocation public key to lock the "to_local" output.

If A broadcasts their previous commitment transaction, B can spend A's "to_local" output immediately using their revocation private key, which includes A's "per_commitment_secret" and B's "revocation_basepoint_secret".

Note that A and B don't send (un)signed transactions between each other. They only need to exchange signatures as they can construct each other's commitment transaction at any time.

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on February 21, 2022, 04:49:23 PM

The committer is safe as long as they don't publish that old signed transaction. What I don't understand is what will they reveal if they do broadcast it. According to my understanding, the other party needs to somehow work out the private key of revocation_pubkey, which is revocation_priv.

Nothing is really revealed at that moment. Both parties can reconstruct both commitment transaction at any time. However, they can't publish the other party's commitment as they don't have all signatures. Once the commitment transaction is broadcast, it can't be replaced*. Both parties have everything they need to broadcast a penalty transaction before the outdated commitment transaction is broadcast.

* - it doesn't make sense to replace the current commitment transaction using RBF with some old one paying a higher fee as its "to_local" output can be spent immediately by one of the parties anyway.

DaveF

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Crypto Swap Exchange

Quote from: dkbit98 on February 23, 2022, 01:15:02 PM

Anyone used this silent.link website for purchasing anonymous eSIM and getting burner phone number?
It looks interesting, pricing is reasonable and most important thing is they accept payments in Bitcoin and Lightning Network, without using any kyc or email address registration.
This could be a good option for privacy if your smartphone is supporting eSIM option, or just for testing and using LN payments Wink

https://silent.link/

I see they are using BTCPay Server for accepting paments.

Interesting, but it's an esim so unless you can get one of the listed phones anonymously it can still be tied back to you.

I would thing that it's probably more anonymous to just walk into a local store and pick up a cheap phone with for cash and then use Bitrefill or similar service to keep it topped up if needed.

Nice find. If I had one of those phones I would give it a try, but since they are all more expensive units I'll stick to my old OnePlus

-Dave

dkbit98

legendary

Activity: 2212

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Anyone used this silent.link website for purchasing anonymous eSIM and getting burner phone number?
It looks interesting, pricing is reasonable and most important thing is they accept payments in Bitcoin and Lightning Network, without using any kyc or email address registration.
This could be a good option for privacy if your smartphone is supporting eSIM option, or just for testing and using LN payments Wink

https://silent.link/

I see they are using BTCPay Server for accepting paments.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Each time there's a commitment transaction, the "committer" (self) sends a per_commitment_secret so that the other party (remote) can punish them in the future, in case they cheat. Once the other party receives it, from the committer's revoke_and_ack, they can use it to construct the revocation signing key for the old commitment, which will allow them to spend both theirs and the committer's funds.

The committer is safe as long as they don't publish that old signed transaction. What I don't understand is what will they reveal if they do broadcast it. According to my understanding, the other party needs to somehow work out the private key of revocation_pubkey, which is revocation_priv.

Code:

revocation_priv = (revocationbase_priv * sha256(revocation_basepoint || per_commitment_point)) + (per_commitment_secret * sha256(per_commitment_point || revocation_basepoint)) mod N

They lack knowledge of revocationbase_priv, right? So how can they calculate it?

n0nce

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not your keys, not your coins!

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on February 13, 2022, 05:52:27 AM

Quote from: n0nce on February 12, 2022, 10:32:46 PM

Without enough, gossip doesn't really work well.

But, there's no use of the gossip protocol. When you're connecting with me, I'm handing you over my URI which contains the onion address. (Unless that's not what you're talking about)

Oh right, gossip would only be a potential issue if the URI was not available and I'd try connecting with node ID alone.

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on February 13, 2022, 05:52:27 AM

So, apparently, I now have two onion addresses and the second one definitely not works. According to dark, the cj5sy...onion works on main net, but not on test net. Any clues?

I will look into this again in the next few days (busy times Roll Eyes

); one random idea would be to maybe recreate the onion services (since then you get new addresses).

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: n0nce on February 12, 2022, 10:32:46 PM

Without enough, gossip doesn't really work well.

But, there's no use of the gossip protocol. When you're connecting with me, I'm handing you over my URI which contains the onion address. (Unless that's not what you're talking about)

Anyway, I've forgotten to mention about @darkv0rt3x. They voluntarily assisted me through Telegram and I hadn't even asked for it. We were searching of what was causing this problem for an hour, trying different commands, retrying them, exchanging screenshots etc. They even invited me in a c-lightning Telegram channel to discuss it with others. Thank you dark! This is the kind of people the crypto space needs. Willing to spent a spare of their time to encourage others continue.

Back to my issue. This is my getinfo:

Code:

admin@raspibolt:~ $ lightning-cli --testnet getinfo
{
   "id": "0261f00131d87b1bb2b02e6d96ad31d72e33c1c9e8a87583f734c000e9a0155144",
   "alias": "LightningVortex",
   "color": "0261f0",
   "num_peers": 1,
   "num_pending_channels": 0,
   "num_active_channels": 1,
   "num_inactive_channels": 0,
   "address": [
      {
         "type": "torv3",
         "address": "cj5syu6qa6s2oft4vmh3wlyyvmr4naa7b34ah5f75moibt3i3awkz5ad.onion",
         "port": 9735
      },
      {
         "type": "torv3",
         "address": "xixzo67fevmab7wytj5qp7mowvbildpbr7xgaj4hp5dbqgr36termcyd.onion",
         "port": 9735
      }
   ],
   "binding": [
      {
         "type": "ipv4",
         "address": "127.0.0.1",
         "port": 19735
      }
   ],
   "version": "v0.10.2",
   "blockheight": 2140851,
   "network": "testnet",
   "msatoshi_fees_collected": 0,
   "fees_collected_msat": "0msat",
   "lightning-dir": "/home/admin/.lightning/testnet"
}

So, apparently, I now have two onion addresses and the second one definitely not works. According to dark, the cj5sy...onion works on main net, but not on test net. Any clues?

n0nce

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not your keys, not your coins!

Quote from: darkv0rt3x on February 06, 2022, 06:17:33 AM

After that we can try to keep searching for the problem/solution!

I have a new theory: maybe simply too small amount of Tor nodes on Testnet? Without enough, gossip doesn't really work well.
Back when I ran a testnet node, it ran through normal IP and even there, it was hard to find routes and stuff due to low amount of nodes, bad liquidity and unbalanced channels (because there is no financial incentive).

darkv0rt3x

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on February 05, 2022, 02:48:31 AM

Quote from: darkv0rt3x on February 04, 2022, 05:46:17 PM

Show again your lightning-cli getinfo

Code:

admin@raspibolt:~ $ lightning-cli --testnet getinfo
{
   "id": "0261f00131d87b1bb2b02e6d96ad31d72e33c1c9e8a87583f734c000e9a0155144",
   "alias": "LightningVortex",
   "color": "0261f0",
   "num_peers": 1,
   "num_pending_channels": 0,
   "num_active_channels": 1,
   "num_inactive_channels": 0,
   "address": [
      {
         "type": "torv3",
         "address": "xixzo67fevmab7wytj5qp7mowvbildpbr7xgaj4hp5dbqgr36termcyd.onion",
         "port": 9735
      }
   ],
   "binding": [
      {
         "type": "ipv4",
         "address": "127.0.0.1",
         "port": 9735
      }
   ],
   "version": "v0.10.2",
   "blockheight": 2139359,
   "network": "testnet",
   "msatoshi_fees_collected": 0,
   "fees_collected_msat": "0msat",
   "lightning-dir": "/home/admin/.lightning/testnet"
}

Well, apparently there is some issues when trying to connect to nodes in different networks. So, for the sake of testing, I would suggest either someone on the testnet trying to connect to you or you change to mainnet and try to connect to me (or I connect to you when you're in the mainnet).

After that we can try to keep searching for the problem/solution!

BlackHatCoiner

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 7340

Farewell, Leo

Quote from: darkv0rt3x on February 04, 2022, 05:46:17 PM

Show again your lightning-cli getinfo

Code:

admin@raspibolt:~ $ lightning-cli --testnet getinfo
{
   "id": "0261f00131d87b1bb2b02e6d96ad31d72e33c1c9e8a87583f734c000e9a0155144",
   "alias": "LightningVortex",
   "color": "0261f0",
   "num_peers": 1,
   "num_pending_channels": 0,
   "num_active_channels": 1,
   "num_inactive_channels": 0,
   "address": [
      {
         "type": "torv3",
         "address": "xixzo67fevmab7wytj5qp7mowvbildpbr7xgaj4hp5dbqgr36termcyd.onion",
         "port": 9735
      }
   ],
   "binding": [
      {
         "type": "ipv4",
         "address": "127.0.0.1",
         "port": 9735
      }
   ],
   "version": "v0.10.2",
   "blockheight": 2139359,
   "network": "testnet",
   "msatoshi_fees_collected": 0,
   "fees_collected_msat": "0msat",
   "lightning-dir": "/home/admin/.lightning/testnet"
}

darkv0rt3x

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Activity: 1274

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I rather die on my feet than to live on my knees

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on February 04, 2022, 07:32:58 AM

Quote from: n0nce on February 03, 2022, 05:15:23 PM

@BlackHatCoiner can you check that the onion address is correct?

Sure.

Code:

admin@raspibolt:~ $ sudo cat /var/lib/tor/lightningd_hidden_service/hostname
xixzo67fevmab7wytj5qp7mowvbildpbr7xgaj4hp5dbqgr36termcyd.onion

My configuration file:

Code:

HiddenServiceDir /var/lib/tor/bitcoin-service/
HiddenServicePort 8333 127.0.0.1:8334
# uncomment:

HiddenServiceDir /var/lib/tor/hidden_service_electrs/
HiddenServiceVersion 3
HiddenServicePort 50002 127.0.0.1:50002
HiddenServicePort 60002 127.0.0.1:60002

HiddenServiceDir /var/lib/tor/lightningd_hidden_service/
HiddenServiceVersion 3
HiddenServicePort 9735 127.0.0.1:9735

ControlPort 9051
CookieAuthentication 1
CookieAuthFileGroupReadable 1

Quote from: darkv0rt3x on February 03, 2022, 05:31:06 PM

I used his URI! Not the pub key alone! But I also try the pubkey alone after the URI failed!

Maybe it's not my fate to get involved into Lightning. Tongue

Show again your lightning-cli getinfo

Check your PMs.

BlackHatCoiner

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 7340

Farewell, Leo

Quote from: n0nce on February 03, 2022, 05:15:23 PM

@BlackHatCoiner can you check that the onion address is correct?

Sure.

Code:

admin@raspibolt:~ $ sudo cat /var/lib/tor/lightningd_hidden_service/hostname
xixzo67fevmab7wytj5qp7mowvbildpbr7xgaj4hp5dbqgr36termcyd.onion

My configuration file:

Code:

HiddenServiceDir /var/lib/tor/bitcoin-service/
HiddenServicePort 8333 127.0.0.1:8334
# uncomment:

HiddenServiceDir /var/lib/tor/hidden_service_electrs/
HiddenServiceVersion 3
HiddenServicePort 50002 127.0.0.1:50002
HiddenServicePort 60002 127.0.0.1:60002

HiddenServiceDir /var/lib/tor/lightningd_hidden_service/
HiddenServiceVersion 3
HiddenServicePort 9735 127.0.0.1:9735

ControlPort 9051
CookieAuthentication 1
CookieAuthFileGroupReadable 1

Quote from: darkv0rt3x on February 03, 2022, 05:31:06 PM

I used his URI! Not the pub key alone! But I also try the pubkey alone after the URI failed!

Maybe it's not my fate to get involved into Lightning. Tongue

darkv0rt3x

hero member

Activity: 1274

Merit: 681

I rather die on my feet than to live on my knees

Quote from: n0nce on February 03, 2022, 05:15:23 PM

Quote from: darkv0rt3x on February 03, 2022, 03:54:50 PM

I still couldn't connect to you!

Interesting. What about using ID + IP / onion address? Sometimes it's not propagated correctly (either misconfiguration or gossip protocol shortcomings). If it doesn't work with address, then it has to be firewall rule or something like that.

@BlackHatCoiner can you check that the onion address is correct?

I used his URI! Not the pub key alone! But I also try the pubkey alone after the URI failed!

n0nce

hero member

Activity: 910

Merit: 5935

not your keys, not your coins!

Quote from: darkv0rt3x on February 03, 2022, 03:54:50 PM

I still couldn't connect to you!

Interesting. What about using ID + IP / onion address? Sometimes it's not propagated correctly (either misconfiguration or gossip protocol shortcomings). If it doesn't work with address, then it has to be firewall rule or something like that.

@BlackHatCoiner can you check that the onion address is correct?

darkv0rt3x

hero member

Activity: 1274

Merit: 681

I rather die on my feet than to live on my knees

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on February 03, 2022, 03:40:11 AM

Quote from: darkv0rt3x on February 02, 2022, 06:47:41 PM

Have you managed to make it work?

Hi, thanks for your persistence!

I think that my node should be working fine. This is my getinfo:

Code:

admin@raspibolt:~/.lightning/testnet $ lightning-cli --testnet getinfo
{
   "id": "0261f00131d87b1bb2b02e6d96ad31d72e33c1c9e8a87583f734c000e9a0155144",
   "alias": "LightningVortex",
   "color": "0261f0",
   "num_peers": 1,
   "num_pending_channels": 0,
   "num_active_channels": 1,
   "num_inactive_channels": 0,
   "address": [
      {
         "type": "torv3",
         "address": "xixzo67fevmab7wytj5qp7mowvbildpbr7xgaj4hp5dbqgr36termcyd.onion",
         "port": 9735
      }
   ],
   "binding": [
      {
         "type": "ipv4",
         "address": "127.0.0.1",
         "port": 9735
      }
   ],
   "version": "v0.10.2",
   "blockheight": 2138884,
   "network": "testnet",
   "msatoshi_fees_collected": 0,
   "fees_collected_msat": "0msat",
   "lightning-dir": "/home/admin/.lightning/testnet"
}

Code:

0261f00131d87b1bb2b02e6d96ad31d72e33c1c9e8a87583f734c000e9a0155144@xixzo67fevmab7wytj5qp7mowvbildpbr7xgaj4hp5dbqgr36termcyd.onion:9735

Try to connect with me, we'll most likely connect properly. Electrum doesn't, though:

At least it gives me a message now. Could I have a context of what does that mean?

I still couldn't connect to you!

BlackHatCoiner

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 7340

Farewell, Leo

Quote from: darkv0rt3x on February 02, 2022, 06:47:41 PM

Have you managed to make it work?

Hi, thanks for your persistence!

I think that my node should be working fine. This is my getinfo:

Code:

admin@raspibolt:~/.lightning/testnet $ lightning-cli --testnet getinfo
{
   "id": "0261f00131d87b1bb2b02e6d96ad31d72e33c1c9e8a87583f734c000e9a0155144",
   "alias": "LightningVortex",
   "color": "0261f0",
   "num_peers": 1,
   "num_pending_channels": 0,
   "num_active_channels": 1,
   "num_inactive_channels": 0,
   "address": [
      {
         "type": "torv3",
         "address": "xixzo67fevmab7wytj5qp7mowvbildpbr7xgaj4hp5dbqgr36termcyd.onion",
         "port": 9735
      }
   ],
   "binding": [
      {
         "type": "ipv4",
         "address": "127.0.0.1",
         "port": 9735
      }
   ],
   "version": "v0.10.2",
   "blockheight": 2138884,
   "network": "testnet",
   "msatoshi_fees_collected": 0,
   "fees_collected_msat": "0msat",
   "lightning-dir": "/home/admin/.lightning/testnet"
}

Code:

0261f00131d87b1bb2b02e6d96ad31d72e33c1c9e8a87583f734c000e9a0155144@xixzo67fevmab7wytj5qp7mowvbildpbr7xgaj4hp5dbqgr36termcyd.onion:9735

Try to connect with me, we'll most likely connect properly. Electrum doesn't, though:

At least it gives me a message now. Could I have a context of what does that mean?

darkv0rt3x

hero member

Activity: 1274

Merit: 681

I rather die on my feet than to live on my knees

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on January 28, 2022, 11:54:29 AM

Quote from: Rath_ on January 28, 2022, 11:49:31 AM

You need to remove all '$' signs from the command.

Code:

usermod -a -G debian-tor bitcoin

Done and restarted C-Lightning. The error remains. Something tells me that I have to reinstall C-Lightning for the 4th time. Any tutorials recommended besides n0nce's that I have to also install openSUSE?

Quote from: Rath_ on January 28, 2022, 11:49:31 AM

Do you have any incoming connections in Bitcoin Core? Does it run behind Tor as well?

Yes and yes.

Have you managed to make it work? I also struggled with this. And I did so many things that I can't even say what was wrong!

If you still haven't managed it to work, we can try to go step by step, check config files, check services, check logs, etc!

n0nce

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not your keys, not your coins!

Quote from: Amph on February 02, 2022, 06:03:39 AM

there will be a version of this integrated in the main wallet? and not separated one, which may look kinda of tech savy for many normal people?

A version of what? And which main wallet? You mean whether Lightning will be integrated into Bitcoin Core?
No, Lightning will not be integrated into Bitcoin Core and it wouldn't even necessarily make anything simpler.

If you want something simpler, you can use Lightning through light clients such as:
Electrum
Breez
Wallet of Satoshi

However, if you want to help decentralize the LN network, just as is the case when decentralizing the Bitcoin L1 network, you do need to get into the 'tech savvy' intricacies of running your own full node.

Amph

legendary

Activity: 3248

Merit: 1070

there will be a version of this integrated in the main wallet? and not separated one, which may look kinda of tech savy for many normal people?

Topic: The Lightning Network FAQ - page 18. (Read 33426 times)