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Topic: The NEXT generation of Physical Bitcoins... - page 10. (Read 19104 times)

sr. member
Activity: 366
Merit: 258
From the website:  "In fact, you can report a theft to our security team and the coins in question will be deactivated, leaving the crook with goods that are flagged as stolen.  For a nominal fee, we’ll even transfer the value of your stolen coin to a replacement coin and send it out to you."

Woah, hold up.  So you're saying that you can control the usage/activation of the bitcoin from your homebase there, Titan?  

Pardon me, but that's a little frightening that at any time you could change your mind and simply deactivate all the Titan coins out there and buy yourself an island somewhere.

I thought the 2FA requirement would queue everyone in to the centralization of this system.

@OP Good idea, bad implementation?  Seems that way a little, you're basically selling bitcoin IOUs instead of actual bitcoins.

I totally see your point.  We didn't decide on this particular implementation lightly.  With any product, saying yes to one benefit often means saying no to another.  

For new bitcoin owners, the ease of use is the biggest hurdle.  Email registration is something that is familiar and easy to understand.  We ARE working on a more advanced, decentralized solution, but innovation takes time Smiley  Fortunately for us, the benefits of these coins seem to outweigh the drawbacks for many.

hero member
Activity: 761
Merit: 500
Mine Silent, Mine Deep
The design is absolutely stunning. Well done!

The premium is pretty steep, making them more like collector items. As such they will probably be stored in a safe long-term. This also means I would not be comfortable being dependent on titanbtc.com/ still being around by the time the coin might be redeemed.
sr. member
Activity: 366
Merit: 258
From the website:  "In fact, you can report a theft to our security team and the coins in question will be deactivated, leaving the crook with goods that are flagged as stolen.  For a nominal fee, we’ll even transfer the value of your stolen coin to a replacement coin and send it out to you."

Woah, hold up.  So you're saying that you can control the usage/activation of the bitcoin from your homebase there, Titan? 

Pardon me, but that's a little frightening that at any time you could change your mind and simply deactivate all the Titan coins out there and buy yourself an island somewhere.






For security, we used a closed system that tracks coin ownership, with 2-factor authentication built in.  The big benefit for this comes into play when you're buying from a third party.  Because of the ease of hacking or counterfeiting other phsyical bitcoins out there, we're providing a solution that limits redemption of the coin to the person who currently owns it.  You need access to the email address registered to the coin in order to redeem.  New owners can change that registration as soon as they buy, protecting themselves from buying a coin with a compromised private key.

I totally understand that this isn't for everyone and for people that don't want that extra protection, we'll be offering coins that include the private key underneath the hologram. 

For new bitcoin owners, we're finding that the 2 factor authentication provides a peace of mind regarding the safety of their investment.  For existing members of the community, we're happy to be flexible.

legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1004
Keep it real
From the website:  "In fact, you can report a theft to our security team and the coins in question will be deactivated, leaving the crook with goods that are flagged as stolen.  For a nominal fee, we’ll even transfer the value of your stolen coin to a replacement coin and send it out to you."

Woah, hold up.  So you're saying that you can control the usage/activation of the bitcoin from your homebase there, Titan?  

Pardon me, but that's a little frightening that at any time you could change your mind and simply deactivate all the Titan coins out there and buy yourself an island somewhere.

I thought the 2FA requirement would queue everyone in to the centralization of this system.

@OP Good idea, bad implementation?  Seems that way a little, you're basically selling bitcoin IOUs instead of actual bitcoins.
full member
Activity: 304
Merit: 102
From the website:  "In fact, you can report a theft to our security team and the coins in question will be deactivated, leaving the crook with goods that are flagged as stolen.  For a nominal fee, we’ll even transfer the value of your stolen coin to a replacement coin and send it out to you."

Woah, hold up.  So you're saying that you can control the usage/activation of the bitcoin from your homebase there, Titan? 

Pardon me, but that's a little frightening that at any time you could change your mind and simply deactivate all the Titan coins out there and buy yourself an island somewhere.




hero member
Activity: 906
Merit: 1034
BTC: the beginning of stake-based public resources
I've not completed checkout using your website yet but wanted to as: can one pay in bitcoin?
sr. member
Activity: 366
Merit: 258
Honestly the best physical BitCoin I've seen yet. I really really want one of these.. just beautiful.
Well done Titan!

Thanks Fat Magic!  There's no artist I know who doesn't like a good ego stroking, so I'm forwarding these comment on to our sculptor and designer.
sr. member
Activity: 366
Merit: 258
Tim,

when do you anticipate the gold and silver coins to be available?  hopefully some with this same design pattern which is beautiful.

We're working on the silver version of this coin now.  As you can imagine, its expensive to get production started but I expect we'll at least have the silver one ready to sell sometime in November.

Thanks for the compliment, Cypherdoc. Smiley  That means a lot coming from you.

We actually started out the project by consulting with one of the current engravers for the U.S. mint who is producing the latest line of quarters.  Interestingly, The legal team at the U.S. Mint told him he could no longer be involved with our project because they felt that bitcoin was a foreign currency.  Since engravers at the U.S. mint can't work for foreign countries, his working with us was deemed to be a violation of his non-compete clause. 

The U.S. Mint legal team called bitcoins "foreign currency".  If that isn't evidence that bitcoin is real money, I don't know what is.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
Tim,

when do you anticipate the gold and silver coins to be available?  hopefully some with this same design pattern which is beautiful.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
Honestly the best physical BitCoin I've seen yet. I really really want one of these.. just beautiful.
Well done Titan!
sr. member
Activity: 366
Merit: 258
Hi Tim,

    Really glad to see you have posted on bitcointalk about your coins!

    Trust issues with centralisation aside this is a different approach to Casascius and I think it could have a place in the market.

    Can one buy via your website now?

Yes.  Our coins are available for sale now.  Feel free to PM with questions.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
Have you devised a defense against the solvent attack, demonstrated at this summer's DefCon?
http://codinginmysleep.com/casascius-physical-bitcoins-cracked-at-defcon/

2-factor authentication is built in.  You can't redeem a coin without also having access to an email address that the coin is registered to.  A new owner can immediately change that registration info and protect the coin's value from being swept by someone that previously owned the coin.

You might seriously consider discussing this model with legal so that it can be cleared of money transmission issues.  If you are holding the value and it is transferred from person to person, there could be some questions raised, being that you are in the US.
I am not saying that it is illegal or wrong.  It is pretty cool actually, but just a word to the wise... cya with your legal counsel.  Even if it is perfectly legal, it is good to have a legal defense fund ready and a lawyer that knows the facts and the law ahead of issues being raised.  If nothing else, set aside a portion of profit in a custodial fund for when you get around to this.

BTW, this is a nice looking piece, we should talk.  Smiley

I've dug pretty deep and we're definitely a MSB as long as we accept dollars.  It's a fine point of distinction but, We can't really say that we make it easy for people to get started with bitcoins without letting them pay in their currency of choice.  We're already planning through the process of registration and compliance.  I appreciate your concern and its right on, but that's part of the project.

Thanks very much for the compliment.  We have 3 more designs on the way soon for the half, quarter and 0.1 bitcoin denominations.  Stay tuned. 

This is great, Very happy to hear it.  The selling of the pieces may be less of an issue (even if it turns out that US want those to be MSB) than the custodial relationship during transmission/reregistration and the MTB risks (which have much higher AML requirements).  This is a great innovation, and looks to be first of its kind, and I want you guys to be around for decades to come. 
hero member
Activity: 906
Merit: 1034
BTC: the beginning of stake-based public resources
Hi Tim,

    Really glad to see you have posted on bitcointalk about your coins!

    Trust issues with centralisation aside this is a different approach to Casascius and I think it could have a place in the market.

    Can one buy via your website now?
legendary
Activity: 1014
Merit: 1003
VIS ET LIBERTAS
Quote
I'm not sure I understand how this one works.  Could you explain a bit more?
I think these coins can't be "unloaded". They have a fixed 10 mbtc denomination and a (much higher) collectors value which is of course fluctuating.
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

It appears these just say 10mBTC and do not give any access to any cold storage of actual bitcoins. The post says "key-free". Meaning no key?

It's a bit misleading in my view the way it is posted.
sr. member
Activity: 366
Merit: 258

I'm not sure I understand how this one works.  Could you explain a bit more?
legendary
Activity: 1014
Merit: 1003
VIS ET LIBERTAS
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1014
In Satoshi I Trust
I would prefer an original bitcoin look of the coins...
sr. member
Activity: 366
Merit: 258
Have you devised a defense against the solvent attack, demonstrated at this summer's DefCon?
http://codinginmysleep.com/casascius-physical-bitcoins-cracked-at-defcon/

2-factor authentication is built in.  You can't redeem a coin without also having access to an email address that the coin is registered to.  A new owner can immediately change that registration info and protect the coin's value from being swept by someone that previously owned the coin.

You might seriously consider discussing this model with legal so that it can be cleared of money transmission issues.  If you are holding the value and it is transferred from person to person, there could be some questions raised, being that you are in the US.
I am not saying that it is illegal or wrong.  It is pretty cool actually, but just a word to the wise... cya with your legal counsel.  Even if it is perfectly legal, it is good to have a legal defense fund ready and a lawyer that knows the facts and the law ahead of issues being raised.  If nothing else, set aside a portion of profit in a custodial fund for when you get around to this.

BTW, this is a nice looking piece, we should talk.  Smiley

I've dug pretty deep and we're definitely a MSB as long as we accept dollars.  It's a fine point of distinction but, We can't really say that we make it easy for people to get started with bitcoins without letting them pay in their currency of choice.  We're already planning through the process of registration and compliance.  I appreciate your concern and its right on, but that's part of the project.

Thanks very much for the compliment.  We have 3 more designs on the way soon for the half, quarter and 0.1 bitcoin denominations.  Stay tuned. 
sr. member
Activity: 366
Merit: 258
Have you devised a defense against the solvent attack, demonstrated at this summer's DefCon?
http://codinginmysleep.com/casascius-physical-bitcoins-cracked-at-defcon/

2-factor authentication is built in.  You can't redeem a coin without also having access to an email address that the coin is registered to.  A new owner can immediately change that registration info and protect the coin's value from being swept by someone that previously owned the coin.

Sounds like a lot of work for a physical coin  Undecided

I don't mean to come off as critical but preferentially I dislike centralized systems. What happens in the case where your business gets shutdown and all information on your servers are inaccessible?

At that time no coins could change ownership given that the associated password and email associated with the coins being sold would be static. Is this right?

Is there a window of time that the original owner of the coin could change the information of the coin on your servers after the sale of the coin(s) and thus screwing the buyer?

Please correct me if I am wrong on any of my comments above as I will not pretend to completely understand your business and security models.


I agree with you that decentralized systems are better.  This is a closed system so that we can offer cold-storage for people that want it.  For people just getting started with bitcoins, the barrier to entry is a knowledge gap as opposed to a lack of trust.  We want these coins to attract new members to the bitcoin community and so far it's working GREAT.  For those that don't want it, we'll be including the private key with the coin, just like other physical bitcoins.

As far as people scamming each other when doing third-party sales, there's not too much we can do to stop that.  People will still sell things and then never deliver.  For these coins, you can scan the back and immediately see that the coin was redeemed.  Nothing can be foolproof,  but it does give you an immediate way to say, "wait a minute, you sold me a funded coin and this one says it's already redeemed."   

Wouldn't that just be the same as looking up the address on the block chain? I get it you are trying to get new users.

Preferentially I guess that is why I am against centralized systems because then it allows manipulation to possibly occur in terms of the validity of the data.

Right now checking two or more block explorers ensures that the coins are still at the address as opposed to a single site.

I forgot to compliment you on the superb artwork. I'm impressed.

You're right on the money about decentralized being better.  In fact, I've already got guys working on a system that addresses these issues...but its a few months out at least.  As ridiculous as it sounds, the difference between sending someone to blockchain.info, vs. having a "friendly" interface deliver the info to them is literally a make or break issue for lots of newbies.

Thank you sincerely for the compliment.  I was super excited when Lealana coins came out, as I had more litecoins than bitcoins at the time.  You did a great job with those, all around.

 
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