Topic: The situation with Ukraine and the accounts that supported the war. - page 2. (Read 2671 times)

Sophisticated shit. There is a big difference: He invaded another country.

In fact, this is typical situation "aggressor-victim". It's good to silence aggressor but not good to silence a victim. And noone fucking care about aggressor problems. If he's not a madman he of course has his own incentives. "oh man, i don't have sex for so long, maybe i can rape this girl on the street".
Does rapist has an incentive and logical reasoning? yes of course. His actions very logical. Still we do not need "to try to understand him". To jail with no excuses.

Aggressor and victim are not the same. We can't treat them in the same way. The fact that one attacking/raping/robbering  and another just protecting himself makes them too different. Sooooo.  There nothing bad to divide this entities. This is not some kind of "hypocrisy", this is just a logical solution, since as i said above this entities are not the same in their motivation and their actions.

Otherwise, to try to treat them the same / apply the same principles and so on it's kind of stupid. This turn potential situation "man tries to rape a woman on the street" into "two drunk buddies beat crap outta each other"

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will answer to all other sophisticated juggling tomorrow in the morning, so this post will be expanded

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A little clarification: I'm not for a ban to those morons on BITCOINTALK forum. Because this is forum about bitcoin. But I'm highly accept such "lists of shame". Some kind of cancel culture. Your loved Lauda created a lot of such lists, for much less valuable reasons.

As you see, I personally created such a long time ago for close reasons - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.19138996

Do you apply the same principle to Putin’s censorship, if he believes he has a duty to Russia to win a war?

(Sure, I myself love censorship—just love it!—when I am the one doing the censoring.  Funny how that works.)

The important question here, and the only one that I am interested in debating on this thread:  Do you advocate that people who express pro-Russian (or even non-anti-Russian) opinions should be banned from the Bitcoin Forum, as demanded by OP here?


Back atcha.  What is your blind spot, when you are going around attacking Greenwald and me with anti-Russian rants—on threads where Russia was not even mentioned?

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No reason to waste my time writing a reply to this garbage, when I can simply quote myself from another thread where johhnyUA made a totally off-topic attack on Greenwald and me.


1miau, I repeat to you the same question as I put to johhnyUA:  Do you advocate that people who express pro-Russian (or even non-anti-Russian) opinions should be banned from the Bitcoin Forum, as demanded by OP here?

I did NOT come here to debate the Russia question.  Are you even aware that this is in the Meta forum, not Politics & Society?  I entered this thread because on free-speech grounds, I am outraged at a Meta thread demanding bans of users for their political opinions.  Do you agree with OP’s demand for an “eternal ban” of his political blacklist?

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@cryptomaxsun, why will you not add me to your censorship target list in OP?  I have said things that are clearly unacceptable to you.  I have gotten myself personally attacked here, in insulting terms, by some people who evidently agree with you.  Please add me to your list.  Please?  I am beginning to fear that you are afraid of showing yourself to be the total lunatic that you are—demanding a ban of a user with a long history of advocating for free speech, who came here to quote Greenwald articles about censorship and wartime misinformation in the West.  Please don’t chicken out on me.

Here is an improved version of my prior suggestion:

Of course there no need for "pro-ukrainian" (I laughed a lot, this is like "pro-victim propaganda", total nonsense) censorship, since Ukraine is great in curing some misinformation by it's own. Unlike russia. So it's obvious we need to help russia with this  

For example: ombudsperson Lyudmyla Denisova was fired because a lot of disinformation she provided to Western society. Fired by ukrainians.

"He also accuses her of having focused too much on media work, and on describing sexually motivated crimes in gratuitous detail as well as the raping of children in occupied territories. However, some of these accounts, he said, had not been verified, which had harmed Ukraine's reputation and distracted media attention from other, proven crimes and problems."

Can you give me an example from russia, eh? Of such "self-curing against misinformation". I'm waiting.

Thanks for pointing out very fast, that your judgment is completely flawed. Couldn't be faster since liar Glenn Greenwald has obviously purchased some real estate in Putin's ass recently. It's hard to get an understanding of how brainwashed by Putin's propaganda Greenwald really is but here you go:
 
Unfortunately (for Putin), there's a thing called INTERNET and we can find out why Putin doesn't like it:
The internet is an uncensored place, where people can go and find out, what's really happening in Ukraine, what's not shown on Russian state TV.
Putin's propaganda doesn't stand any chance there against what's really happening in Ukraine. Everyone can see on the internet, that Putin isn't doing some "special operation" to "liberate Ukraine". No! Everyone can see that Putin is invading Ukraine outright, while Ukraine is a sovereign state and that Putin is deliberately bombing civilian areas.
Not only that, he's bombing whole Ukrainian cities to the ground.

Because Putins final goal is to destroy the Ukrainian culture, destroy democracy, turn Ukraine into Russian territory, erase Ukraine completely (and probably some baltic states, too), and send everyone to gulags (or outright shoot them), whoever resists.
It's embarassing to see people advocating for such insane bullshit in a BITCOIN forum.
People advocating and enabling Russian agression and opression!
Insane!

So, yes, brainwashed people like Glenn Greenwald are resposible when Putin achieves to take more Ukrainian ground and when Putin achieves more terretorial gains, where he can destroy more Ukrainian cities.
Because Greenwald is deliberately throwing Ukrainians under the Russian bus.
People like Greenwald are the best soldiers for Putin in the West to undermine Ukrainian defense against Putin's invasion.  

Putin has no business in Ukraine! Invading another sovereign country is nuts, bombing civilians and whole cities to the ground is nuts and people trying to find justifications for Putin's war are similarly nuts!
In fact, people like Greenwald are a shame!

Can't agree with you man. After few rockets landed near me, I understood that sometimes censorship is for good.

Sorry, but with your blind spot you dissapointed me

Life is complicated thing, and something can be a curse and a cure in the same time. Amount differs  


P.S:
And please, do not try to jungle with "hate speech" and "free speech". As my friend from USA (Marine corp, lol) told me: "Yeah, f'cking snoflake can tell me somethings rasist if the think that this is his right. And my right - to beat up all the crap otta him!"



This is true difference in "freedom". We should obtain american-like freedom (I'm free, noone can punch me!) not russian (I'm free, I can punch anyone! )

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Oh, I've read few your posts. Typical pro-russian conspiracy theories. If USA would really intervene, maybe there would not be that war. And now, as ukrainian, and as a witness of russian actions in my country the only things i could ask is that USA intervene as much as it can. I need american night vision googles, i need american rifle, my country needs HIMARS and M270. Not your sophisticated shit, since your ass is in warm safe place.

Since i respected you (until now) i was really afraid that you will came here and will start to post such horse shit. And it happened, for worse.
I see that nullius went full troll. Suchmoon was right about you.

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A little dive into situation from real ukrainian (me):


Russian take. And of course, russia is "elder brother" so he should determine how ukrainians should live, where should they join and what they should think and believe. Otherways, "elder brother" will launch a lot of missiles and rockets at ukrainians, start ethnic cleansings in Bucha and will threaten other world with nuclear war.

Ukrainians and russian are as much different as danish and germans (different languages, lol). Those who say otherwise or just useful idiots, or bloodthirsty russian morons who wants to rape and still dishwashers. Since you're not a russian "denazificator" I think the first option is about you.


Just a strongly dislike al those true-nazi takes of russians about ukrainians? (The most famous one is - We need to solve ukrainian question, the great allusion to Hitler's speech "Final Solution" about jews)

 

Tell me, dislike more than the fact of imprisoning of Russia Today worker Jullian Assange or not so much? Assange i think much more valuable that those filthy ukrainians, since they dare to fight against russian "liberators" who will free All nations against "usa imperialism" (and Assange too, despite he is not a nation   )


The problem is that after 2014 it was ukrainians who wanted to join NATO, not USA. And I'm very grateful to USA that this country gives us a lot of anti-tank missiles to fry ruskies in their lightly-modernized soviet cans.

As it said in song: Invaders must die!  


Oh, maybe I'm stupid, but I can't remember full scale invasion at Cuba with a lot of dead civilians, childrens and so on. naval blockade is a little bit different thing, isn't it? And after USSR removed it's nuclear missiles out of Cuba, USA was good with the fact that Cuba is Pro-Soviet. At least, during 50 years it never invaded Cuba.

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I see how much you're out of context about what's going on and why this war started. Some "geopolitical shit" about secure concerns and so on. Baltic states are in NATO for a long time, like already 20 years. And their territory much closer to Saint Petersburg and Moscow than Ukrainian. And i didn't see any war till now. Coвпaдeниe? He дyмaю!

The reason is much more terrible for such a silly idealist like you: russia is go full-facist style, and from now it's main goal to exterminate Ukraine, exterminate ukrainian language and culture. Even MY OWN FATHER who is now in russia cried on me through Viber that I'm Bandera-neonazi and disrespect my ancestors. You know what the reason for this? Maybe the fact that I'm in ukrainian army? (I'm not for now) No. Maybe because I'm ideological ukrainian nationalist? No.
Because one reason - I talked to him in ukrainian. So for an average russian - "Ukrainian language - 100 % nazi. Exterminate".

And this was far long until 2014. Even in 2011, I was in St.Petersburg and my father told me not to speak in ukrainian because "people will not understand. I told them that my son is good ukrainian". So, "bad ukrainian" is those who do not want to be russificated.

So, this war is crusade-style, like Nazi against jews situation in 1945. With only difference - ukrainians have a lot of weapons (God bless America and EU) and we will send those "denazificators" directly to Hell to their predecessors from Third Reich

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P.S:
So i have an ask for you: Delete your tags in my trust list. It's like a shit mark on me. Thank you in advance.

AWESOME! 🧨

I think we are getting somewhere.  Now, would you please add me to the list in OP (“Last edit: July 04, 2022, 06:02:35 PM by cryptomaxsun”)?  Don’t make me beg here.

Suggested text for OP’s list of users for which you want an “eternal ban”:


Thanks in advance.

P.S., please don’t forget to give me negative trust feedback as you have been doing to others for their political opinions.  Thanks again.

You are a real moron and Putin's troll!
You do not have your own opinion, you are a slave, you are stupid and do not understand the reasons for the war, nor the difference between propaganda and freedom of speech.
This forum is very one-sided, many of my posts and entire threads in the Russian section have been deleted, but the messages of Putin's trolls, who splatter with hatred and are complete lies, have not been deleted.
So believe that there is freedom of speech and democracy.
You do not understand the terms at all, you are confused, you do not know what freedom of speech, democracy, your own opinion, propaganda are.
I am very worried that the number of stupid propagandist trolls is growing very strongly on this forum.

Censorship is the story behind the story here.  I am glad that the Bitcoin Forum, and especially theymos, have a strong tradition of supporting the freedom of speech.


What do I need to do to get added to your list of censorship targets?

On grounds of “what’s good for the goose is good for the gander,” maybe I should ask theymos the CEO of Bitcoin to ban you for spreading anti-Russian propaganda.  You are a dupe of the American Empire’s proxy-war machine, plus a hypocrite, a shill, and a patsy.

Don’t you care that innocent Russians and Ukrainians are dying because the U.S. professional nation-wreckers decided to blow up that part of the world?  I wish that the war could stop.  I am outraged at the U.S. and NATO for causing it.  And I absolutely will stand up here on the Bitcoin Forum against the U.S. propaganda system’s censorship, misinformation, disinformation, and one-sided demonization of Russia.


All italics are Greenwald’s.  Highlighting is mine.

I linked to both of these articles, and many others, in my first post on this thread.  Alas, most people do not read.

Anyway, I am not interested in debating the war here and now.  I am interested in:

• Getting myself added to the list of censorship targets.  Because I stand for free speech.  Please target me with your censorship campaign.  Pretty please?
• Getting this thread moved from Meta—a forum-governance board where this thread is off-topic, and where its presence has a chilling effect on free speech—to Politics & Society, the proper place for discussing non-forum-governance politics.

I also think that there should be no censorship on this forum.

Personally, I argued a lot with pro-Russian trolls in the Politics section where they keep saying that there was no attack and no war and it's all liberation through a military operation, but I don't try to put comments on their trust pages and I don't ask moderators to delete their posts. You cannot stop idiots from writing books, but it's a double edged sword, like when you put an average fighter against a terrible one, you start seeing how good that average guy is. We need these trolls to write stupid posts so that people can make their own minds and decide who's telling the truth. History will verify.

It's going to be a bit off-topic, but I've read a thing I'd like to mention here thing today. Remember when Putin said there are no Russian recruits fighting in Ukraine? Ukrainians started finding 18 year old POWs and putting their statements on youtube along with all their documents. This week Russia officially admitted that there indeed were about 600 young conscripts fighting in Ukraine, but it was a mistake and those responsible (the officers) will be prosecuted for giving orders to these boys... Try telling a mother that her son was sent to war and died by mistake. Try telling her that the ministry of defense did not know who they're sending across the border. I used to think that North Korea was the most bullshit country in the world with their laws requiring that every citizen comes to a leader's funeral and cries, but Russia is even worse. It's all built on lies and it's all going to be exposed sooner or later.

You are just stupid, since you cannot distinguish the wheat from the chaff and completely trust the fascist false propaganda.
I live in a frontline area where many people speak Russian, no one wants war, but russia regularly shells civilian infrastructure where there are no soldiers. For me, this is an act of terrorism, and those who support it, for me they are also terrorists.
This is an obvious fact!
So follow the russian ship!

Save your propaganda for someone who is as dumb as you are.

What do I need to do to get added to your list of people you want to censor?

Maybe you should try clicking all those links I made to one of my longtime favourite journalists, Glenn Greenwald.

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OP has been reported to the moderators, with a request to move this off-topic thread to Politics & Society.  I would be shocked if I were the first one to report it.  I am shocked that it’s been allowed here in Meta for the past four months.

Following your logic, if Obama regularly relieves himself in your front doors, then Russia has every right to commit a fall on the United States?



This has already been discussed many times - there is propaganda and distortion of facts, people from my list are doing propaganda, distorting facts, this is not their opinion, these are Kremlin narratives.
What do you think distinguishes propaganda from your own opinion?

Please add me to that list.

Partly, this is a protest for free speech:  I would very likely ask to be added to such a list, even if I otherwise agreed with the one making the list.  You want to ban people from the Bitcoin Forum for expressing their political opinions?  No matter what those opinions are, please add me to your list.  Also, please issue me negative trust feedback, as you have been doing to others for their opinions.  Thanks.  I’d be honoured, especially if you call me an information terrorist.

Not to say that I disagree.  Oh, noes!  Putin is an evil man:  I think that he’s the new Saddam Hussein, and Russia is now Iraq.  It is totally unprecedented for any country to make a preemptive military escalation when a strategic threat develops at its borders; anyway, I do not know how to read a map.  I am so glad that the Western media have never lied about atrocities, that the U.S. president has no corrupt connections that may be relevant, and that—totally unlike Russia!—the Western intelligence agencies don’t have a long history of using online brigades of professional shills to manipulate discussions and destroy reputations.

Evil Putin bans all freedom of speech.  Russia’s enemies embrace freedom of speech.  There is no active U.S. program to censor Internet discussions about Russia.  Unlike Russia, the West tolerates dissent.  I can just totally believe that everything Russia says is false, and everything its enemies say is true.

Anyway, this discussion of the war is off-topic in Meta.  The important question is:  Why is this thread still here?

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On a personal note, I am aggrieved at the war—and for my own part, I lay the blame squarely on the corrupt politicians in America who engineered it.  I have had both Russian friends and Ukrainian friends for years.  When things started to blow up in that region in 2013–2014, I tried as delicately as I could to plead that the worst wars are wars between brothers.  I strongly dislike some of the rhetoric that the Russian media tend to apply to Ukrainians (and also, to various people from the Baltics).  Nonetheless, when the U.S. has been seeking via NATO, etc. to gain a strategic proxy like a dagger poised at Russia’s belly, I cannot avoid looking at a map, and remembering how the U.S. reacted in the Cuban Missile Crisis.

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I have recently noticed some non-n00bs who should know better issuing negative trust feedback based on pro-Russian political opinions.  That is reprehensible, and a clear ~.  This forum has a customarily strict taboo against using political opinions as the substantial basis for negative trust feedback.  That is not even something that was ever controversial in DT, like some of the types of tags I issue.  Red tags for political opinions are 100% clear-cut trust system abuse.

The moderators should move this thread to Politics & Society.  It is totally off-topic in Meta.

Permitting this thread in Meta gives the impression that the administration may consider sanctioning people who express unpopular opinions about the war.  The continued existence of this thread in Meta has a chilling effect on the freedom of speech.

OP is perfectly free to express his political opinion in the Politics & Society forum, or in forums where generalized or off-topic discussion is invited or tolerated (WO, Off-Topic, or the generalized Serious Discussion board).  If he wants to advocate that forum users with unpopular opinions should be banned from the forum and/or burnt at the stake, then that discussion is on-topic in Politics & Society.

That the Benderites were killing Jews was Kremlin propaganda?
You're a real prick.

Maybe it's enough for you to post nonsense and Kremlin propaganda?
I want the war to end, Russia to lose and leave the territory of Ukraine forever.
I think that only a mentally ill person would support and approve of Russia's war against Ukraine.
Ukrainians are a free people and they want to live in peace.

Maybe you think the Benderites are heroes, too?


"There is no evidence that the Banderaites murdered hundreds of thousands of Jews."

https://www.dw.com/uk/mzs-ukrainy-dystantsiiuvalosia-vid-sliv-posla-u-nimechchyni-pro-banderu/a-62323192

https://i.imgur.com/Cj888Bd.jpg

Is it ok for you to write in the thread, which was created to notify forum members about the existence of such propaganda-putin-bots like you, and where the OP did even include you in this honor list? I wonder if you need an academic degree to understand what everyone here perceives you as

It doesn't take an academic degree to see a group of Jewish Communists with a guard of Latvian riflemen.


Who did you donate to, directly to "Azov"?

History written by whom, I wonder? By so called russian "academic society", totally doing what the government or tzar or general secretar is telling them to do and to write?



I was living in the country where the real war began, started by russia. Watching injured people and destroyed families. Trying to help them. Donating to save their lives. Continue to do it right now. But of course this is nothing compared to you writing posts about Donbass.

Don't refer to a group of Jewish Communists as "my Bolsheviks". You need to study history, too.

I've been on this forum since about 2014 or earlier, I just forgot the passwords to my accounts.
And I wrote enough about Donbass at that time, but what were you doing then?