There isn’t a poker room you could win at ?

Betwrong

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Quote from: mak013 on December 03, 2021, 06:02:06 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on December 03, 2021, 04:59:49 AM

~

Thx That`s what i wanted to understand.

Looks like that this is a world trend - people become more practical, strategies becomes more defensive. In such a way bluff percentage decreases and pocket cards becomes the one of most important thing in the game. Bluff ceases to be the decisive tool, it just helps sometimes.

Well, it's still poker, so you can't win without bluffing occasionally, but you are right, good players are doing it less often these days.

Quote from: AicecreaME on December 04, 2021, 07:07:49 AM

~ Poker is like chess, it's a mind game and the smart one will always win.

I don't think poker is like chess. They are very different games, actually. Just read our discussion with @mak013 above, and then come back here.

But if you don't have time for that, I'll tell you this: chess is a game of complete information, meaning that luck plays zero part in it. It is determined how to play in this or that situation, you just have to know it. Memorize all the games played during the past 100 years by the best chess players, and you are guaranteed to win most of the time. But you can't do that trick with poker.

mak013

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Quote from: AicecreaME on December 04, 2021, 07:07:49 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on November 30, 2021, 08:08:03 AM

Yes, anything can happen, because luck is a factor in the game of poker. An absolute newbie can beat the best poker player in the world in one game or even more. But the more games played, the more obvious the importance of experience and skill, so a weak player, or someone using an outdated strategy, doesn't stand a chance in the long run.

For sure newbies will always lose in bluffing, because newbies does have a weak resolve to fight for their cards, so the only option they have is to fold. But in the long run, as they are making experience, they will also start to make profits using their own strategy against other professional players. Poker is like chess, it's a mind game and the smart one will always win.

The professional players reading the same books, so they play one of the strategies that another professional players know. And noone no how will play newbie. This is his only weapon, except luck. And when newbie get skill he ceases to be a newbie, but becomes play one of the known strategies with more skilled players.

AicecreaME

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Quote from: Betwrong on November 30, 2021, 08:08:03 AM

Quote from: mak013 on November 30, 2021, 06:05:27 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on November 27, 2021, 04:33:11 AM

Regarding online poker schools, I just have an opinion that is different to yours. I think most of them are harmful, because they are teaching the old style that no longer works. Poker is a living thing, and it is evolving, it is not static. For example, look at how Daniel Negreanu was playing 10 years ago, and what he was teaching at the time, and how he plays today. Indeed he's a genius, because he has found the strength to abandon his old style and adapt to the new reality. ... Well, that's just my opinion, of course, but if it means something to you, I am a 2 times winner of the Bitcointalk Poker Series. (I know bragging is wrong, but I hope it's relevant, just this once.

)

Just interesting for me. I`m playing soccer for more then 15 years and i see how it changes. I see how change boots, ball, training ground. It is the one side. On the other side - team work between players in different situations. And the rules changes too.
But when you playing poker - you playing with the same rules and same cards. Can it be so, that the old strategy will be better then new? Even because the new player don`t know about it?

Yes, anything can happen, because luck is a factor in the game of poker. An absolute newbie can beat the best poker player in the world in one game or even more. But the more games played, the more obvious the importance of experience and skill, so a weak player, or someone using an outdated strategy, doesn't stand a chance in the long run.

For sure newbies will always lose in bluffing, because newbies does have a weak resolve to fight for their cards, so the only option they have is to fold. But in the long run, as they are making experience, they will also start to make profits using their own strategy against other professional players. Poker is like chess, it's a mind game and the smart one will always win.

mak013

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Quote from: Betwrong on December 03, 2021, 04:59:49 AM

It's not constant, that's what I'm trying to say.

In the old days, like 5-6 years ago and more, the best players were much more bluff oriented than they are today. It was considered that a good player could play(and win) with any pocket cards. First you wait for a miracle, so that your 67s makes you holding a straight flush, or quads, or full house. Then if it doesn't happen, you bluff the hell out of it and grab the pot.

^^^This was their motto. And they were right at the time. Some people won millions of dollars following this amazing strategy. But the thing is that it's not working anymore.

Thx That`s what i wanted to understand.

Looks like that this is a world trend - people become more practical, strategies becomes more defensive. In such a way bluff percentage decreases and pocket cards becomes the one of most important thing in the game. Bluff ceases to be the decisive tool, it just helps sometimes.

Betwrong

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I stand with Ukraine.

Quote from: mak013 on December 02, 2021, 01:04:17 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on November 30, 2021, 08:08:03 AM

Quote from: mak013 on November 30, 2021, 06:05:27 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on November 27, 2021, 04:33:11 AM

Regarding online poker schools, I just have an opinion that is different to yours. I think most of them are harmful, because they are teaching the old style that no longer works. Poker is a living thing, and it is evolving, it is not static. For example, look at how Daniel Negreanu was playing 10 years ago, and what he was teaching at the time, and how he plays today. Indeed he's a genius, because he has found the strength to abandon his old style and adapt to the new reality. ... Well, that's just my opinion, of course, but if it means something to you, I am a 2 times winner of the Bitcointalk Poker Series. (I know bragging is wrong, but I hope it's relevant, just this once.

)

Just interesting for me. I`m playing soccer for more then 15 years and i see how it changes. I see how change boots, ball, training ground. It is the one side. On the other side - team work between players in different situations. And the rules changes too.
But when you playing poker - you playing with the same rules and same cards. Can it be so, that the old strategy will be better then new? Even because the new player don`t know about it?

Yes, anything can happen, because luck is a factor in the game of poker. An absolute newbie can beat the best poker player in the world in one game or even more. But the more games played, the more obvious the importance of experience and skill, so a weak player, or someone using an outdated strategy, doesn't stand a chance in the long run.

Surely, we spoke about random

And what about tournament? Old school player have a strategy, he knows the game, he can bluff. As for me - if he catch some luck, his chances to win are enough high.
But i meant another thing. What changes in the strategy if nothing changes technically? For example: I`ve read a book about 10 years ago. There was a base strategy from the start of the game: depending on the seat at the table and starting cards the player have a decision to raise, to check, or to drop his cards. Is it constant or element of changing strategy?

It's not constant, that's what I'm trying to say.

In the old days, like 5-6 years ago and more, the best players were much more bluff oriented than they are today. It was considered that a good player could play(and win) with any pocket cards. First you wait for a miracle, so that your 67s makes you holding a straight flush, or quads, or full house. Then if it doesn't happen, you bluff the hell out of it and grab the pot.

^^^This was their motto. And they were right at the time. Some people won millions of dollars following this amazing strategy. But the thing is that it's not working anymore.

AicecreaME

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Quote from: Fortify on October 18, 2021, 02:39:39 AM

Quote from: i_am_viral on October 12, 2021, 04:00:20 AM

I mean I do win against players, I can do it for a week, a month and even a year but I always lose to the house.

The rake and house wins, it’s like impossible to beat the house...

You are probably already aware that poker is a super intense game online, you really are playing against the best in the world and the type of players who would seek out a poker game in Bitcoin are going to generally be very high level players. If you do win against other players like you suggest, simply stick with the sites that you're already winning at - take those earnings and convert them into Bitcoin if your ultimate goal is to acquire more. If you're unable to beat the house as you say, then you simply are not an effective player and should probably seek out a different way to make money. Your earnings will never go up unless you can beat that cut of commission they take from each hand.

Exactly.

That's the very simplest way to make profits, I don't know why OP is doing something wrong and won't stop complaining about it even though he knows the solution for his problem, unless he is just all talk. Poker is very complicated game, if you're good at it doesn't mean no one can beat you, actually there's a lot of professional poker players around the globe that also play in online gambling that could never be known since we are talking about cryptocurrency.

mak013

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Quote from: Betwrong on November 30, 2021, 08:08:03 AM

Quote from: mak013 on November 30, 2021, 06:05:27 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on November 27, 2021, 04:33:11 AM

Regarding online poker schools, I just have an opinion that is different to yours. I think most of them are harmful, because they are teaching the old style that no longer works. Poker is a living thing, and it is evolving, it is not static. For example, look at how Daniel Negreanu was playing 10 years ago, and what he was teaching at the time, and how he plays today. Indeed he's a genius, because he has found the strength to abandon his old style and adapt to the new reality. ... Well, that's just my opinion, of course, but if it means something to you, I am a 2 times winner of the Bitcointalk Poker Series. (I know bragging is wrong, but I hope it's relevant, just this once.

)

Just interesting for me. I`m playing soccer for more then 15 years and i see how it changes. I see how change boots, ball, training ground. It is the one side. On the other side - team work between players in different situations. And the rules changes too.
But when you playing poker - you playing with the same rules and same cards. Can it be so, that the old strategy will be better then new? Even because the new player don`t know about it?

Yes, anything can happen, because luck is a factor in the game of poker. An absolute newbie can beat the best poker player in the world in one game or even more. But the more games played, the more obvious the importance of experience and skill, so a weak player, or someone using an outdated strategy, doesn't stand a chance in the long run.

Surely, we spoke about random

And what about tournament? Old school player have a strategy, he knows the game, he can bluff. As for me - if he catch some luck, his chances to win are enough high.
But i meant another thing. What changes in the strategy if nothing changes technically? For example: I`ve read a book about 10 years ago. There was a base strategy from the start of the game: depending on the seat at the table and starting cards the player have a decision to raise, to check, or to drop his cards. Is it constant or element of changing strategy?

Betwrong

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Activity: 3374

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I stand with Ukraine.

Quote from: mak013 on November 30, 2021, 06:05:27 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on November 27, 2021, 04:33:11 AM

Regarding online poker schools, I just have an opinion that is different to yours. I think most of them are harmful, because they are teaching the old style that no longer works. Poker is a living thing, and it is evolving, it is not static. For example, look at how Daniel Negreanu was playing 10 years ago, and what he was teaching at the time, and how he plays today. Indeed he's a genius, because he has found the strength to abandon his old style and adapt to the new reality. ... Well, that's just my opinion, of course, but if it means something to you, I am a 2 times winner of the Bitcointalk Poker Series. (I know bragging is wrong, but I hope it's relevant, just this once.

)

Just interesting for me. I`m playing soccer for more then 15 years and i see how it changes. I see how change boots, ball, training ground. It is the one side. On the other side - team work between players in different situations. And the rules changes too.
But when you playing poker - you playing with the same rules and same cards. Can it be so, that the old strategy will be better then new? Even because the new player don`t know about it?

Yes, anything can happen, because luck is a factor in the game of poker. An absolute newbie can beat the best poker player in the world in one game or even more. But the more games played, the more obvious the importance of experience and skill, so a weak player, or someone using an outdated strategy, doesn't stand a chance in the long run.

mak013

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Quote from: Betwrong on November 27, 2021, 04:33:11 AM

Regarding online poker schools, I just have an opinion that is different to yours. I think most of them are harmful, because they are teaching the old style that no longer works. Poker is a living thing, and it is evolving, it is not static. For example, look at how Daniel Negreanu was playing 10 years ago, and what he was teaching at the time, and how he plays today. Indeed he's a genius, because he has found the strength to abandon his old style and adapt to the new reality. ... Well, that's just my opinion, of course, but if it means something to you, I am a 2 times winner of the Bitcointalk Poker Series. (I know bragging is wrong, but I hope it's relevant, just this once.

)

Just interesting for me. I`m playing soccer for more then 15 years and i see how it changes. I see how change boots, ball, training ground. It is the one side. On the other side - team work between players in different situations. And the rules changes too.
But when you playing poker - you playing with the same rules and same cards. Can it be so, that the old strategy will be better then new? Even because the new player don`t know about it?

Betwrong

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Activity: 3374

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I stand with Ukraine.

Quote from: Poker Player on November 24, 2021, 07:16:26 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on November 24, 2021, 07:05:28 AM

~

Well, what you say is more incorrect today than ever in history. On the one hand you are right that most players are losers. They lose money in poker in the long run just like those who lose money in casino games. They don't bother to study and improve or they do very little.

However, about a decade ago, with the proliferation of online poker schools and all the material that can be found on the net, the percentage of players who study and improve has gone up a lot, and that has led to a tightening of the levels.

You are also right that most of those players can be found in online tournaments, because the luck factor is more important than, say, at 9 cash limit tables.

So, am I right or wrong? Because after reading your reply, 2 times, I am still not sure about your opinion on that post of mine.

Why does your opinion matter to me is because I see that you are a quality poster, and also that nick of yours, Poker Player, is delightful to my eyes because I love playing poker.

Regarding online poker schools, I just have an opinion that is different to yours. I think most of them are harmful, because they are teaching the old style that no longer works. Poker is a living thing, and it is evolving, it is not static. For example, look at how Daniel Negreanu was playing 10 years ago, and what he was teaching at the time, and how he plays today. Indeed he's a genius, because he has found the strength to abandon his old style and adapt to the new reality. ... Well, that's just my opinion, of course, but if it means something to you, I am a 2 times winner of the Bitcointalk Poker Series. (I know bragging is wrong, but I hope it's relevant, just this once.

)

fiulpro

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I do not understand why you would put your post so short, then continue to make statements like these. First of all the house always wins, this is simple. Players can loose ofcourse, they can win as well, but I don't think that there is any player who can always win at the end of the day. Poker is a game of luck and of course skills. Even if a person has amazing skills, he can still have the worst luck.

You might have days where you would loose as well, it not always a win win situation. But there appears to be players with a nice consistent strategy who can win most of their games.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Its a bit awkward statement that you always win ,because the poker like other types of gambling are not made for a person to be winning but its moreover invented to accumulate other peoples' money.Especially in poker if you wanna win more often (always is impossible) its good that you have additional information and knowledge and certain preparation. Of course theres the big "IF" which is luck.Dont forget that too.

Exactly no one always wins. If that's the case with you idk you might be blessed with luck and you need to use it as much as you can for the moment because it might live short, as short as your statement explaining your whole topic.

mak013

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Quote from: Betwrong on November 24, 2021, 07:05:28 AM

Quote from: mak013 on November 23, 2021, 12:26:35 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on November 22, 2021, 10:09:29 AM

~What about tournaments? There's a buy-in which you have to pay whether you want it or not. I agree with you regarding cash games though.

Yes, tournaments mostly brings more money, and you can choose your level with choosing buy-in size. But the same time leveling-up profit level, your opponents skills growing up too. Not always, but mostly.

With this I disagree because there are tens of millions people in the world playing poker online, and most of them do not develop new strategies, or learn them from the contemporary best poker players. It's not that they are lazy or something, they just don't have time for that, having other more important things to do. And you can always find such people in online tournaments, and outplay them. At least that's my theory. "Don't Try This at Home!", as they say.

I agree that most of these players losing their money, but the same time these players don`t ready to lose much money and you can choose your skill by choosing tournaments by buy-in size. Of course it don`t give you any guarantee but the chance to find skilled players are higher the bigger the buy-in.

Poker Player

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Quote from: Betwrong on November 24, 2021, 07:05:28 AM

Quote from: mak013 on November 23, 2021, 12:26:35 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on November 22, 2021, 10:09:29 AM

~What about tournaments? There's a buy-in which you have to pay whether you want it or not. I agree with you regarding cash games though.

Yes, tournaments mostly brings more money, and you can choose your level with choosing buy-in size. But the same time leveling-up profit level, your opponents skills growing up too. Not always, but mostly.

With this I disagree because there are tens of millions people in the world playing poker online, and most of them do not develop new strategies, or learn them from the contemporary best poker players. It's not that they are lazy or something, they just don't have time for that, having other more important things to do. And you can always find such people in online tournaments, and outplay them. At least that's my theory. "Don't Try This at Home!", as they say.

Well, what you say is more incorrect today than ever in history. On the one hand you are right that most players are losers. They lose money in poker in the long run just like those who lose money in casino games. They don't bother to study and improve or they do very little.

However, about a decade ago, with the proliferation of online poker schools and all the material that can be found on the net, the percentage of players who study and improve has gone up a lot, and that has led to a tightening of the levels.

You are also right that most of those players can be found in online tournaments, because the luck factor is more important than, say, at 9 cash limit tables.

Maslate

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Quote from: Betwrong on November 24, 2021, 07:05:28 AM

Quote from: mak013 on November 23, 2021, 12:26:35 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on November 22, 2021, 10:09:29 AM

~What about tournaments? There's a buy-in which you have to pay whether you want it or not. I agree with you regarding cash games though.

Yes, tournaments mostly brings more money, and you can choose your level with choosing buy-in size. But the same time leveling-up profit level, your opponents skills growing up too. Not always, but mostly.

With this I disagree because there are tens of millions people in the world playing poker online, and most of them do not develop new strategies, or learn them from the contemporary best poker players. It's not that they are lazy or something, they just don't have time for that, having other more important things to do. And you can always find such people in online tournaments, and outplay them. At least that's my theory. "Don't Try This at Home!", as they say.

Those who really put effort to develop their skills will likely succeed as a poker player, however, you gotta risk something in doing that as focus requires time and effort and you might have to sacrifice other things just to be focus in poker games, and the worst part is if you lose in the end as although you are so focus, it doesn't automatically mean you'll succeed.

Betwrong

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Quote from: mak013 on November 23, 2021, 12:26:35 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on November 22, 2021, 10:09:29 AM

~What about tournaments? There's a buy-in which you have to pay whether you want it or not. I agree with you regarding cash games though.

Yes, tournaments mostly brings more money, and you can choose your level with choosing buy-in size. But the same time leveling-up profit level, your opponents skills growing up too. Not always, but mostly.

With this I disagree because there are tens of millions people in the world playing poker online, and most of them do not develop new strategies, or learn them from the contemporary best poker players. It's not that they are lazy or something, they just don't have time for that, having other more important things to do. And you can always find such people in online tournaments, and outplay them. At least that's my theory. "Don't Try This at Home!", as they say.

btc78

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Quote from: MrcMrc on November 17, 2021, 04:17:54 AM

I don't think luck have any place in poker most especially when playing against the house because the system is set to favor the house that is why we have the house edge. But again once you can discipline your self and take the rich stance you may win to some extent before the house have it ways.

This is why most of experienced gamblers is always looking for how Probably fair the casino is and this is also mostly the reason why newly opened gamblers are being questioned .
because in any way it is the probably fair that is important for all gambler and so your issue will never be experienced .

mak013

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Quote from: Betwrong on November 22, 2021, 10:09:29 AM

Quote from: mak013 on November 19, 2021, 07:42:29 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on November 19, 2021, 03:57:50 AM

~

There is one more problem i think - money. If a "good player" playing for guaranteed win - he plays with low skilled players that mostly play with little bets and don`t want to loose big money.

What about tournaments? There's a buy-in which you have to pay whether you want it or not. I agree with you regarding cash games though.

Yes, tournaments mostly brings more money, and you can choose your level with choosing buy-in size. But the same time leveling-up profit level, your opponents skills growing up too. Not always, but mostly.

Quote from: Betwrong on November 22, 2021, 10:09:29 AM

Quote from: mak013 on November 19, 2021, 07:42:29 AM

In this situation a "good player" spent too much time for wining too small money. And playing in the tournament with good money he is playing against the same "good players" without guarantee to win.

Your win is never guaranteed, ever, you know this, right? Wink

As of what poker player can be called a "good player" there's no consensus on this matter, but imo a good player is someone who can outplay most of the great players from the past, because they were not evolving during the past years, and thus have got their strategies outdated.

Of course you have no guarantee playing poker. But when skill level really differs - more skilled player have the great chance to win.
Outdated strategy may be interesting if the new player don`t know it. But i can`t say how true is it. I have to google some such games/tournaments firstly.

Betwrong

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Quote from: mak013 on November 19, 2021, 07:42:29 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on November 19, 2021, 03:57:50 AM

~

There is one more problem i think - money. If a "good player" playing for guaranteed win - he plays with low skilled players that mostly play with little bets and don`t want to loose big money.

What about tournaments? There's a buy-in which you have to pay whether you want it or not. I agree with you regarding cash games though.

Quote from: mak013 on November 19, 2021, 07:42:29 AM

In this situation a "good player" spent too much time for wining too small money. And playing in the tournament with good money he is playing against the same "good players" without guarantee to win.

Your win is never guaranteed, ever, you know this, right? Wink

As of what poker player can be called a "good player" there's no consensus on this matter, but imo a good player is someone who can outplay most of the great players from the past, because they were not evolving during the past years, and thus have got their strategies outdated.

Lakai01

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Quote from: ?? on ??

The op have not updated the thread since it creation over a week ago, but looking for a poker room is quit unusual to me because no play win all the time. The house will sometimes win the player.

Small correction:
In the long run, the casino always wins through the House Edge. If this did not exist, the casino would be bankrupt in no time. Some games, of course, are less dependent on luck. Especially in slot and dice games, you can see the effects of the house edge relatively quickly.

mak013

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Quote from: Betwrong on November 19, 2021, 03:57:50 AM

Quote from: mak013 on November 18, 2021, 02:18:16 AM

That`s why they are called "good players"

They can loose sometimes if the opponent skill low, they can loose if their skill are about equal but mostly they win.

Agreed. So, no exceptions then. Good players always win in the long run. The only problem here for pro poker players is that they can encounter equally good players in high level tournaments. And they do, actually, all the time. And when great players meet each other at the table, it's not their skill, but rather it's luck what affects the outcome the most. Knowing this fact, an amazing poker player Liv Boeree quit professional poker in 2019, after winning around $4 million in live tournaments.

There is one more problem i think - money. If a "good player" playing for guaranteed win - he plays with low skilled players that mostly play with little bets and don`t want to loose big money. In this situation a "good player" spent too much time for wining too small money. And playing in the tournament with good money he is playing against the same "good players" without guarantee to win.

Topic: There isn’t a poker room you could win at ? (Read 903 times)