These new EFFICIENT x11 algos everyone is talking about ?? BULLSHIT or real? - page 13.

cryptohunter

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Quote from: precrime3 on April 04, 2014, 08:16:30 AM

ASIC resistance, not asic proof. Its been a surprise there haven't been ASICs yet. Litecoin dev team has had there official response, I doubt that they were bribed not to change algo's.

asic resistance - - so more asic resistant than scrypt N? more asic resistant that QRK, more asic resistant than scrypt jane with high n? what about this myriad coin idea? is that pretty asic resistant or not?

is it true or not? come on really i want to know the answer? i am asking not telling?

precrime3

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ASIC resistance, not asic proof. Its been a surprise there haven't been ASICs yet. Litecoin dev team has had there official response, I doubt that they were bribed not to change algo's.

cryptohunter

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Quote from: flipme on April 04, 2014, 08:10:03 AM

The ASIC MOB is out in full force these days ...

Another point is, that many of the main coin core teams probably have huge orders for ASICs too.
They probably have been bribed and been promised a lot of money will be thrown at these coins.

Its so obvious, a blunt takeover attempt, same as with Bitcoin.

And what is with Litecoin?
It's obviously a SCAM. It was sold as ASIC resistent.
Now the same people come out and say we need more ASICs, to make it secure.

It smells.

Stick to telling us the selling points of x11 over the algos we already have...

There is no interest in hearing your speculation regarding asic mafia here.

I've noted some simple points for you to look over above. Stick to the facts or GTFO we don't need the thread cluttered with your fantasy theories.

I have no asics ordered and have said before they look to be a waste of money, how much clearer can i be on asics. I don't have a scrypt asic, i don't have sha256 asic

Asics are going to be a waste of money... or a big risk with regards ROI same as sha256 asics are, if you are not first to get delivery you are taking a big risk.

Now we've established scrypt asics are not going to be worth it for most people.... let's get back to x11 and it's brand new advantages it does/does not bring over existing algos.

So far i have seen nobody explain why x11 was needed when we already had scryptN, QRK, and scrypt jane.

Start showing me why is it so amazing so i can start organising for the coins i am interest in to get swapped over to x11. Else i will just go scrypt N or scrypt Jane or stick with good old tested QRK.

Then again it may be best to switch it to merge mined scrypt for security if that is the most important part.

flipme

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The ASIC MOB is out in full force these days ...

Another point is, that many of the main coin core teams probably have huge orders for ASICs too.
They probably have been bribed and been promised a lot of money will be thrown at these coins.

Its so obvious, a blunt takeover attempt, same as with Bitcoin.

And what is with Litecoin?
It's obviously a SCAM. It was sold as ASIC resistent.
Now the same people come out and say we need more ASICs, to make it secure.

It smells.

cryptohunter

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To all those on here crying the OP has an agenda behind it.... Let's not worry about that let's get to work with the facts...even someone with an agenda has no effect if the facts are not in his favour. Besides i have no agenda other than to find out if x11 is worth all the hassle of switching over to, or is it a waste of time and a pure marketing gimmick??

1. is it more efficient than qrk?
2. is it more secure than qrk?
3. is it more efficient than scrypt? or is the miner just crippled and can't use the full potential of the card?
4. are there more efficient miners already out for x11 that are more optimised?
5. is it more asic resistant that qrk?
6. is it more asic resistant that scyptN , scrypt jane
7. is it x12, x13, x99 going to be better? will we need to fork all of the coins over and over again?

just tell me some definite benefits of x11 that are real benefits not maybe beneficial but then again if the miner can be improved shown to not be beneficial at all.

come on how hard is it to sell the best solution out there right now???

flipme

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Network security is the overall challenge. No matter what algo and what axiom.
It should be secure independent of the momentary bandwidth.

It's more important to develop methods regarding the control of the coin itself, than to try to solve the problem with bigger networks.
Thats putting the cart before the horse, in favor of the ASIC MOB.

Coins should be developed according to the latest state of the art software. Any coin of value should keep it up to date.
And if it includes changing the algo or whatever, why not? Wheres the problem?

precrime3

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Quote from Rofo. That's not me.... Please quote correctly if you plan on doing stuff like this.

Spoetnik

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Quote from: Rofo on April 03, 2014, 08:35:41 PM

What he's asking is while you are mining x11 on your 'deliberately inefficient' software and GPUs, are there already those out there with optimized/tweaked hardware and software mining much more than the rest of you right now?

I'm not sure of the answer, but it's an uncomfortable question and I wouldn't be surprised if there are.

VERY perceptive. You sir are smart !

i have no answer for that but it's a very real consideration we HAVE to factor in.
especially considering what some other coins have done in the past (they look for any possible angle or advantage as a substitute for premining)

jeez i almost fell out of my chair when i seen a smart comment LOL
so many kids around here mumble non stop with dick in there mouth Sad

precrime3

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What are you talking about?

Spoetnik

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Quote from: precrime3 on April 03, 2014, 08:24:50 PM

I will post gpuz/cgminer screenshots if you would like of my gpu (7750) running script and x11 algos. I don't have a watt meter so I can't measure power consumption but one can assume lower temps, lower watt usage.

i said CPU MINER

gpu miners are not even listed on the ANN page lol
when was the coin released ? and they are STILL have not added them to the ANN page yet everything else conceivable is ?
and yet its still paraded around as a cpu only coin and listed on the "cpu only coins" topic
and... they completely avoid how its being raped by botnets like ALL other Quark mods.. and yet brag about asic resitance loudly
speaking of which i love how they give Quark no credit (the attention it deserves)
should i go on ?

oh and you avoided my comment where i said i have proven endlessly that scrypt-n is far more profitable Wink

Pro Tip:
All quark mods / clones are Asic resistant not just Dark coin or X11 garbage..

reRaise

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Quote from: AlexGR on April 04, 2014, 06:41:23 AM

Quote from: reRaise on April 04, 2014, 06:35:58 AM

Another security aspect might be, since its block generation is 30 seconds, which means that qrk's algorithm with an element of randomness (unpredictability) will have to be cracked in 30 seconds to create a double-spend fork, so it's not only about the number of hashing functions.

If we are contemplating chances of cracking a certain hash, then shouldn't we be worried more about single-hash coins rather than 6 or 11 hash coins - which would require the cracking of multiple hashes in a given timeframe?

Thats right, but network security is also important.

flipme

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Quote from: AlexGR on April 04, 2014, 06:20:24 AM

Quote from: flipme on April 04, 2014, 05:51:42 AM

Quote from: cryptowho on April 03, 2014, 08:53:15 PM

There is a rumor that there are primed mining x11 miner that seclusive people are mining away right now . yes

Thats a rumor spread by the ASIC MAFIA.

If you'd bother to have a look at what your GPU is doing with the ATI utility, you'd see that its running at 100% with X11.
The fact that it doesn't get so warm is due to the lower memory footprint and the overall lower cache utilization.

It's possible to have 100% GPU load and 1000kh in one instance, and 100% GPU load and 2000kh in another, more optimized one. The difference is that the code will be executed in less GPU cycles not that the GPU will be less loaded with work.

For example the first incarnation of the darkcoin miner gave me ~600-700kh. The second (sph-sgminer 4.1) gave me 900+. It was always 100% load, it's just that the optimized version did it better with the available GPU cycles.

I'd say thats about it then. Maybe another 10%. The instruction set for GPUs and the according libraries don't leave a lot of choices for optimization.
There is no wonder software running 10 times the pace.

AlexGR

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Quote from: reRaise on April 04, 2014, 06:35:58 AM

Another security aspect might be, since its block generation is 30 seconds, which means that qrk's algorithm with an element of randomness (unpredictability) will have to be cracked in 30 seconds to create a double-spend fork, so it's not only about the number of hashing functions.

If we are contemplating chances of cracking a certain hash, then shouldn't we be worried more about single-hash coins rather than 6 or 11 hash coins - which would require the cracking of multiple hashes in a given timeframe?

reRaise

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Quote from: dboylc on April 04, 2014, 12:24:29 AM

Quote from: digitalindustry on April 04, 2014, 12:06:16 AM

Quote from: cryptohunter on April 03, 2014, 08:05:55 PM

Quote from: slapper on April 03, 2014, 07:54:51 PM

Looking at your post history, it looks like you may already know the answer.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/cryptohunter-92110

But it is fun to spread shit on a forum all day.

I am asking a genuine question.... the answers given so far are not conclusive.

Fucking noob trolls butting in with their bullshit answers. If you have nothing to add GFTO

If x11 has something to add here let's here about it.......or else let's get rid of the x11 myth now.

They are all cPoW Complex Proof of work, and yes its probably the closest to " fair" as you can get.

When LTC was released it was common knowledge that a GPU miner was out a lot earlier than people knew, this time around we have a GPU miner with a more optimization that has to be done.

The Power usage will probably still be good at "full" optimization.

Making cPoW the likely next contender for the largest part of the market , the Quark algo acts in exactly the same way as X11 as they are both " cPoW" .

im sure there will be more as well , and thats the idea.

QRK is better than X11?are you sure?just for 3 random algo round?
however, "X11" is a fashion name, and more and more people accept it, that's the truth.but IMO, it's not very hard to make X11 ASIC,but will it worth doing?Need 11 diff asic to a single algo? and I think It's easy to change by a hard fork, X12 X13 X14 etc?
X11 may be the new beginning of GPU mining.
and , i am a miner , I like X11 cuz it's very cool on my card!

I think it's more secure so its up to you if you want to add that to being "better"

qrk adds 3 more rounds of hashing randomly: so the computer doesn't know whether it will be lets say Keccak or Grøstl or Blake, but with x11 the computer remains certain about which hashing function will be used.

Another security aspect might be, since its block generation is 30 seconds, which means that qrk's algorithm with an element of randomness (unpredictability) will have to be cracked in 30 seconds to create a double-spend fork, so it's not only about the number of hashing functions.

MaGNeT

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SHA mining is running cooler than Scrypt on a GPU.

So Cryptohunter is saying it's not "optimized"?

Lol... No... Cryptohunter is seeing X11 as a threat... He probably has a few scrypt ASIC pre-orders...

whaSasd

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Quote from: MinerP on April 04, 2014, 03:20:50 AM

good read but still no answers...

i have read that forking a scrypt coin other to another algo (eg. n-scrpyt, x11) is a very risky procedure and
could cause mass confusion and easily cripple a coin. devs of scrypt coins know this and probably would not
fork over to another algo. if this is true could they be spreading rumors themselves? knowing that there
are other algos much better than scrypt they could be purposely down playing x11 or whatever other algo out
there. just a thought.

'Conspiracy Theory with Jesse Ventura' will continue after these messages.

SPAcoin is crypt N now. Some devs do care about their coins. And yes it is a risky move, I'm not sure litecoin could pool this off. Maybe if they do it secretly and having some GPU farms ready to mine the coin on the new algo.

Is there mining software better than sgminer for X11? Even of there is they get like 10% edge.

Also saying that that scrypt N is more efficient that X11 because of a coin is pointless.

Who is against scrypt N and X11? ASIC miners...

Just like when a noob asks if it is late to get into mining. You'll see some douchebags saying it's way too late like that is going to deter the OP and other people to get into mining so they will make more money. Human nature man...hard to bypass that.

AlexGR

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Quote from: ibfragalot on April 04, 2014, 06:18:53 AM

Best answer to the X11 question so far is from n00bnoxius in another thread:

Quote from: n00bnoxious on April 04, 2014, 05:50:07 AM

Also anybody saying that the reason X11 is cooler and uses less power because the miner is inefficient are for the most part simply wrong. Chained algorithms by default will run cooler - there's a gap between each round of hashing that allows the GPU some breathing space. No doubt there is room for the miner to be improved as it's such a recent development, but it will simply NEVER hit the unbelievable power consumption of a single algo coin.

I like the answer too but the question I have is what is this gap? Why shouldn't the output of one cycle go straight to the next cycle of hashing as input with zero waiting? Does it go to main RAM first, and hence the bottleneck between cpu ram / gpu ram? If so could it all be done on the GPU instead of cpu-gpu-cpu-gpu (just speculating).

AlexGR

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Quote from: flipme on April 04, 2014, 05:51:42 AM

Quote from: cryptowho on April 03, 2014, 08:53:15 PM

There is a rumor that there are primed mining x11 miner that seclusive people are mining away right now . yes

Thats a rumor spread by the ASIC MAFIA.

If you'd bother to have a look at what your GPU is doing with the ATI utility, you'd see that its running at 100% with X11.
The fact that it doesn't get so warm is due to the lower memory footprint and the overall lower cache utilization.

It's possible to have 100% GPU load and 1000kh in one instance, and 100% GPU load and 2000kh in another, more optimized one. The difference is that the code will be executed in less GPU cycles not that the GPU will be less loaded with work.

For example the first incarnation of the darkcoin miner gave me ~600-700kh. The second (sph-sgminer 4.1) gave me 900+. It was always 100% load, it's just that the optimized version did it better with the available GPU cycles.

ibfragalot

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Best answer to the X11 question so far is from n00bnoxius in another thread:

Quote from: n00bnoxious on April 04, 2014, 05:50:07 AM

Also anybody saying that the reason X11 is cooler and uses less power because the miner is inefficient are for the most part simply wrong. Chained algorithms by default will run cooler - there's a gap between each round of hashing that allows the GPU some breathing space. No doubt there is room for the miner to be improved as it's such a recent development, but it will simply NEVER hit the unbelievable power consumption of a single algo coin.

vrm86

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As OP likes car examples I'd give another one: do you think that engine that consumes 50% more petrol and makes 50% more noise is obviously more efficient?

Also this:

Quote from: Wipeout2097 on April 03, 2014, 09:08:26 PM

I don't see where's a serious bottleneck or some conspiracy. Since X11 (and hefty, keccak and those others from sph-sgminer) is not memory hard, you're not stressing the memory controller, L2 caches and the ram chips.

You're used to scrypt, see it as a "reference" and say that others must not be optimized due to low power use and thermals. However, scrypt is the odd one out in the first place, a complete card fuck like Furmark or some videocard stress test.

Open your mind a bit guys, scrypt is not a final achievement of mining technology, even if you would like to.

Topic: These new EFFICIENT x11 algos everyone is talking about ?? BULLSHIT or real? - page 13. (Read 16241 times)