Topic: These new EFFICIENT x11 algos everyone is talking about ?? BULLSHIT or real? - page 9. (Read 16291 times)

This person has a great understanding of these things, his skills in this area are unquestioned. So i personally would listed to what he is saying on this particular part.  

If he tells me x11 asic implementation is easier that QRK i will take that as the case. Until greater arguement is heard.

So it would seem x11 is less asic resistant that perhaps scryptN and qrk.... the question is were the 11 algos in x11 blindly chained and could they theoretically lead to increased collisions?

ASIC implementation of X11 would be a bit simpler and a bit less effective (in terms of performance gain over GPU per mm^2 of die space) than implementation of Quark algorithm.
X11 is rather straightforward, there are some caveats inside hash functions, but for well known hashes it would be just concatenation of published implementations.
For Quark algorithm one can implement 9 hashing stages, 3 of them will be paired - e.g. calculate Keccak and JH in parallel, then discard one of results. Or, to save die space, it's possible to implement 6 hashing cores and some dispatching and routing logic around them.
Anyway, the best ASIC protection is small capitalization of altcoins

Blindly chaining hash functions could theoretically lead to increased collision rate.

EDIT:
Exactly. I expect SHA3 GPU miners to be optimized to the same level very soon.

So far i have this with the current miners we have...


scrypt N   - very asic proof due to cost of hardware required...

qrk -  very efficient in terms of heat and electricity - asic proof for now. - is the efficiency due to miner being poor?

x11 - very efficient in terms of heat and electricity  - asic proof for now. - is the efficiency due to miner being poor?


that seems about the summary so far... that is all we have been able to establish.


security of each i guess can also depend on other factors ie block times....etc. I really don't know much regarding how to attack coins and possible attack vectors. There have been simple yes and no answers but as yet nothing to deep so most of us don't really know.

tell me how darkcoin is a scam and how they are good at promoting?

What does Earthcoin matter here now, please enlighten me.
Just a fuck of a crap coin.

Darkcoin is the bleeding edge of crypto currencies though.
Tell me what you mean with your statement.

This is absolutely not true. Most of the people posting here are without any tecnical or economical insight. They are attracted by fancy words and follows the herd bleating what they have read (but not understood) around the forum. Spending their money on obvious scams like earthcoin and darkcoin, coins in general that do extremly well at promoting and branding. 

blah blah blah.... are you a politician getting a straight answer from you seems almost impossible .... you're a slippery type.

I don't view it as a fight i'm afraid ... i view it as seeking the truth. If you need to fight that then sadly you will always lose in the end.

are you connected to the hiro coin team yes or no?

For me it's a personal obligation to fight people like you,
who try to dumb down the general public with disinformation and cheap propaganda phrases.

You are at a disadvantage, because the average poster here is already quite informed and has a good perception of being Mickey Moused by agents like you.

Get lost.

In summay, cryptohunter will not get the answer due to a someone who said he will be quit in this thread still yell out with BS thing in order to disturb people who want to find out the real answer.

Thank you for X11 people, you help a lot with your BS thing. Instead of providing solid evidence to help other people believe in your supporting coin, right now, you make your coin looks skeptical whether is really useful or useless.  

You are involved with HIROCOIN YES OR NO?

No, I'm the head of the flipme dev team.
And I'm involved into software you never ever knew existed at all.

WAIT - - You're part of the hiro dev team??? WTF that scamming piece of crap coin? Instamined dog shit. Launched at 7am euro time ...tactical so most of europe and US were sleeping? People have checked the block explorer for that coin and it was totally instamined by a few people whilst most had no idea it was even launched. Other devs go to the effort of announcing, password zips.... Hiro scam ninja launches and planned it so most people were sleeping. By the time anyone noticed it a huge amount of blocks raped straight to the devs and friends pocket.

This coin is a shining example of scam.  I bet that other fucking turd slapper or whatever is a Hiro Shill too. I though you were from DRK so was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

HIRO COIN IS A TOTAL SCAM COIN....The only reason i welcome more x11 right now this second without looking further into it is just so hiro coin can burn in hell. It's only selling point is it has x11. It sucks from DRK coin and since it was only the 2nd coin copy DRK it gained some noob traction. Bolstered by 2 of the main team behind THE BIGGEST SCAM OF THE LAST WAVE OF COINS. As soon as the others all go x11 hiro will die instantly... there is no need to support such a scam. Most noobs mining it have no idea how they were pre-raped before they even found out about it.

Now i see why you are so hostile in this thread. I'm seeing this coin has all the ingredients of a SUPER SCAM.... it has the perfect scam team.

If you are connected with that coin you are obviously a total scammer. GTFO this thread. If i'd known you were a HIRO Scam shill i would have freaked out on you earlier scum bag.

Let's not derail this thread with coin pumping and certainly keep that HIRO SCAM coin away from here. FFS anyone crazy enough to mine that now has no clue who is behind it ... look at the main pumpers for that coin and check their history. I will out that entire bunch of assholes soon if they keep infesting this board with their hiro spam. Keep you scam to your own scam thread don't spam the main section with it constantly. Most people here have no idea the scams some of those have been involved with before and talked their way out of it .... now you would think they would learn about getting involved with scams...but there they both are again pushing a blatant scam coin.

Ya man, but I'm not running for it at the current diff.
No way. HIRO - the logo alone does it for me.

Ask yourself why people are mining DRK at a diff of 500+
And why people keep buying it.
Because it's all crap, of course.

These modern coins with some variety in their software are about the only coins with a steady value now.
Just look at it, there is no discussion necessary, at least not for me.
It's so pretty how this is going. On some days I made more money trading DRK and HIRO than mining them.
It was so easy, reminded me of no-brain trades I did when AOL was the next best thing to buy.

The general condition is a total fuckup of anything based on Scrypt.
The sooner you realize it, the better for your wallets.

Maybe that might help a bit:

Algos extracted from SPH-SGMiner sources

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-sph-sgminer-multi-coin-multi-algorithm-gpu-miner-added-marucoin-475795


- FC FuguCoin (1 time 256) R9 290 145MH/s  
    1 fugue256


- Ink INKcoin (2 times 512) R9 290 45MH/s  
    1 shavite
    2 shavite

- MYR MyriadCoin (2 (512+256))  R9 290  10MH/s
    1 groestl
    2 sha256

- GRS GroestlCoin (2 times 512)  R9 290  5.5MH/s
    1 groestl
    2 groestl

- Q2C Qubit (5 times 512) R9 290 5MH/s
    1 luffa
    2 cubehash
    3 shavite
    4 simd
    5 echo

- SIC Sifcoin( 6 times 512) R9 290 4.5MH/s
    1 blake
    2 bmw
    3 groestl
    4 jh
    5 keccak
    6 skein

- DRK DarkCoin X11 (11 times 512)  R9 290 2.5MH/s
    1 blake          
    2 bmw
    3 groestl
    4 skein
    5 jh
    6 keccak
    7 luffa      
    8 cubehash  
    9 shavite
   10 simd
   11 echo

- QRK Quark (9 times 512) R9 290  2.1MH/s
    1 blake
    2 bmw
    3 groestl  OR  skein
    4 groestl
    5 jh
    6 blake    OR  bmw
    7 keccak
    8 skein
    9 keccak   OR  jh


- ANI AnimeCoin (9 times 512) R9 290 1.8MH/s
    1 sph_bmw
    2 sph_blake
    3 groestl    OR  skein
    4 groestl
    5 jh
    6 blake      OR  bmw
    7 keccak
    8 skein
    9 keccak     OR  jh

----------------------------------------------------


Sorted for Hash/s

   (Workload per Hash[1/H] : Speed[MH/s] -> worklaod*speed -> rel. Performance)
- FC FuguCoin       (  256 : 145   -> 37120 M/s)
- Ink INKcoin       ( 1024 :  45   -> 46080 M/s)
- MYR MyriadCoin    (  768 :  10   ->  7680 M/s)
- GRS GroestlCoin   ( 1024 :   5.5 ->  5632 M/s)
- Q2C Qubit         ( 2560 :   5   -> 12800 M/s)
- SIC Sifcoin       ( 3072 :   4.5 -> 13824 M/s)
- DRK DarkCoin X11  ( 5632 :   2.5 -> 14080 M/s)
- QRK Quark         ( 4608 :   2.1 ->  9677 M/s)
- ANI AnimeCoin     ( 4608 :   1.8 ->  8294 M/s)



Sorted for relative Performance:

- Ink INKcoin       ( 1024 *  45   -> 46080 M/s)
- FC FuguCoin       (  256 * 145   -> 37120 M/s)
- DRK DarkCoin X11  ( 5632 *   2.5 -> 14080 M/s)
- SIC Sifcoin       ( 3072 *   4.5 -> 13824 M/s)
- Q2C Qubit         ( 2560 *   5   -> 12800 M/s)
- QRK Quark         ( 4608 *   2.1 ->  9677 M/s)
- ANI AnimeCoin     ( 4608 *   1.8 ->  8294 M/s)
- MYR MyriadCoin    (  768 *  10   ->  7680 M/s)
- GRS GroestlCoin   ( 1024 *   5.5 ->  5632 M/s)

-----

Acording to this raw comperation X11's performance is on the better half compared to the other algos in tose miner.
Of course this doesn't really takes the differences between each Hash algo into account and the size it takes on the GPU

So it is a raw comperation but an interesting one since all those Algos are build out of the very same Hash Moduls in the miner and used the very same way.

Now it can be that all the Hash Moduls are not very efficient and a comperation with other miners that have the same has moduls but implemented in a different way would be very interesting!!

Specially interesting is that the sph miner has the keccak hash but no MaxCoin implementation !?

The CudaMiner has a good and fast keccak so it had been very interesting to compare this! I wonder if it's maybe because the
single keccack modul isn't that good implemented in sph-miner?

I don't have much experiences with SPH-miner nore all this Algos with exception of X11. So maybe others can sheed more light on this.

---

Personel I don't really bother the efficiency or non efficiency of X11.

For me the point of X11 is simple (I discovered it a week ago):

I finnaly can get home and don't have to endure 50 degree celsius in my house and a noise that you can't enjoy anything anymore!!
And it uses less power. It's like a dream for one that simple wants to mine a bit. The standard joe if you want so.
And the summer is comming fast.

As long as the majority has the same ..maybe inefficient miner... we all have a big advantage from it!

If one figures out that you can optimize this to get it hot and noisy as scrypt..if thats even possible..I think it's not or not to that degree..which would mean that the standard GPU isn't optimal for those algos..then I guess some like me simple will search for the next cooler "inefficient" algo.

Security and such is secondary since ..well you know... how long do you hold a coin as miner?

Hi, glad you putting myriad in this thread.

Myriad is for sure not asic resistant. It has SHA256 and scrypt in his algos. BUT it has that nobody has and that markets havent valued yet, ie a very secure network. 51% attacks are theorically impossible as you must have 51% of the total hashrate, so you must be well prepared. So the main concern about ASICs is less or not important.

What the market need is a coin like myriad but with the possibility to switch one of ten algos if something smells. I mean the share of hash power for an algo could progressive. A new algo would have 0% at the beginning ang with each block winning 0.01% until it reaches his target share. The old algo would have the opposit until it reaches 0%.

Let alone the threat of dismissing an algo, there would be no Asics for it as you can change it very easily.

I really like X11 just because my GPUs run cooler. I don t think that it s garbage like everyone but sure as some margin for optimisation. I will not go back to scrypt for sure.

Im waiting for a coin which have 10 different algos, everyone of each doesnt have asics, and with the capacity of switching one if necessary with very little downside.
This is the best to be ASCI PROOF.  

And don't start telling me crap about NIST.
It's the same institution responsible for the mandatory implementation of indecent light bulbs,
Ah sorry, it's incandescent, not indecent, but it is just that.

It actually is an organization on the declining part of industrialization.
We are teaching them how things are rolling.
They are among the stupidest motherfuckers you could have mentioned here.

Ah really, give me an address of suppliers for each of those.
And if it makes 11 we gonna change to 12. Tomorrow.
You wouldn't even recognize the change, because we wouldn't even have to tell you.
Our software would just update what you generally are not interested in, anyway.

Darkcoin (which first used x11) didn't do any form of self-promotion or self-marketing. It's one of the most under-promoted coins out there. Darkcoin didn't even use x11 as it's main selling point but rather DarkSend. How can x11 be a marketing ploy when there was no marketing for x11?