Topic: These new EFFICIENT x11 algos everyone is talking about ?? BULLSHIT or real? - page 7. (Read 16302 times)

Each of the 11 hashes adds overhead to the calculation which will cause a higher orphan rate.

the Hiro dev bought his own coins from me, I dont know why a dev would do that if he massively instamined it.

Where is the dark coin dev?? i am awating his arrival? i don't want to sully his thread with pointed questions about x11. I'm sure he would prefer to come here and discuss right?

I mean it makes no sense for me to go there and invite a huge discussion about x11, what about all the noobs that never leave that drk coin thread?? why cast doubt into their minds regarding the substance of x11, and now this thread has turned against my will into and exposing of the instamine with drk coin that i was unaware of and now the helpful hint regarding it's lack of a windows qt at the start of the instamine??

He really wants all of that in his thread? really i think he would prefer to come here and clear these things up in person?

Are you dening HIRO SCAM COIN WAS AN PLANNED INSTAMINED SCAM COIN???  if so please post evidence that it was not a planned and perfect excuted scam. Also the 2 largest supporters of this coin we the 2 largest supporters of the biggest scam coin from the last wave.

I'm sorry but just because you can not take down to the ground a coin single handedly does not mean it was not a scam.  I can only try and highlight deliberate scams.

Of course we are to expect a lot of bluster and hatred from the supporters of these coins. However sadly for them they can not escape the facts.

This thread was initially about x11 no mention of hiro scam until others brought it up and then i only put the positive comment about drkcoin there because i didn't want the drkcoin fans crying in here either.

However you shills from hiro and drk keep forcing it to be a thread about the scammy instamined starts of your coins? are you proud of these facts or something?

Wow the spokesman here for everybody, that's nice to meet such an important person. We this we that... must be nice to have the backing of the full board.

Hehe i like you, you're a spirited one. You just need to channel your energy into something more worth while.

Here i tell you what.... just for fun answer some of my bullshit questions and show me to be the crazy damaged mad man i am.


1. is it more efficient than qrk?
2. is it more secure than qrk?
3. is it more efficient than scrypt? or is the miner just crippled and can't use the full potential of the card?
4. are there more efficient miners already out for x11 that are more optimised?
5. is it more asic resistant that qrk?
6. is it more asic resistant that scyptN , scrypt jane
7. is it x12, x13, x99 going to be better? will we need to fork all of the coins over and over again?


 


Now since i see you're a dark coin fan.... i will rely on your expert opinion....as this thread seems to be taking an unwanted drk coin direction which was not at all my intention as i clearly stated in the OP.

1. was dark coin by design originally open to a massive instamine?
2. Was dark coin released without a windows QT?
3. Was dark coin instamined?


sorry about spouting boring bullshit over and over again... but you can clear this up rather quickly right now..... YES YOU EIGHTSPACES  you can answer all of these bullshit boring questions right now and save the board whom you speak for any more focus on these bullshit meaningless questions.

we're saying to take the fight straight to the dev in the Dark ann, you can expose the scam like you did to Hiro. Remember how you made the price of Hiro go to the floor?

Sorry but you have to be more clear expressing what it is you want.... i can't even understand your capslock spasm you just experienced. WTF are you talking about?

We are inviting people here to talk about the merits of x11 above and beyond what we had before it. As yet there seem to be none.

Now along the way people have popped into to mention some additional facts.


1. dark coin was designed in a great way to enable instamining.

2. dark coin was launched without a windows qt  to stop competition from others so the instamine went more smoothly and was guaranteed success.

3. that the instamine seemingly went as planned..

a figure of 14% was mentioned .... i encourage others to look into that figure since i have not had time to do so....you know i've almost completed Streetfigher 4 on the hardest setting today and not taken more than 10% damage in any round. It's a fantastic game i would full recommend it to anyone. Yeah so once i finish this round i'll get cracking on the re-post you want....

Just to be clear before i get started....

Are you asking me to repost these facts in a new thread with a more appropriate title?  is that what you are asking me?...Ok sure i'll get right on it for you. Sorry to keep you waiting you seem to be getting impatient there my friend.

Hey eightspaces thanks for showing up and adding weight to this thread. It's nice to see people using size 70 font when they get desperate




Hehe we are getting to these people ..... the game is almost up scammers.

You can't argue with facts that is the scary part for you guys...

Anyone else confirm this? 14% instamine.... what time frame did that take from announcement? so now both coins currently using x11 look like instamine scams? If this is actually true then why are people not screaming this all over the forums? we can't let stuff like that just be brushed under the carpet. I tried to blast earthcoin down a few times for their huge premine .... these coin get a ton of noobs behind them by dishing out some crumbs and become very hard to stop.


Still we're on page 10 and really there is no hard evidence it would seem to suggest x11 provides us with anything beneficial above qrk.  Therefore the frenzy over it is largely based upon marketing hype..

However it has turned up a few new things i didn't know about.... possible scryptN asic ( although not confirmed and i have not heard of that company before) and that drk coin had a 14% instamine?...although again i have not checked the block explorer to see what time frame of instamine we are talking about.  I really call instamine the first few mins if announced ahead of time and has kgw with harsh retarget from the start, or if unannounced the first hour or two again depending on retarget. If it is unannounced and launched at at time when both the US and europe are mostly offline then you can be sure that was a planned deliberate instamine scam like hirocoin.  

Not looking great for x11 then... offers nothing new in terms of real world benefits , and both coins using it thus far were instamined scams?  is this a fair assessment? wow ....if that is true it's time for some additional threads here. However only if it is the truth....sure there will be a lot of haters but really you can't allow scams to go unpunished can you?

Anyone else care to do some solid detective work on this before we unleash some bombs?  The developer seems to be hardworking and even fessed up his real name and introduced some new things to crytpo even if they are marketed above their true capability. However 14% instamine? that is gross if it is true. Hiro scam did the same except worse.. i can't remember how dark coin even launched... was it announced ahead of time ....surely it was not another ninja release planned at 7am euro time so max miners were sleeping?

We won't derail this thread into one on scam coins but really that is terrible. Most people kick up a fuss over 1% premine ...14% to devs and pals let in early on it can't be allowed to happen.

Really thought by now one would have thought with everyone screaming x11 is the one you would have had some techno boffins in here explaining exactly why it is so much better than the algos we have previous to it. A bit shocked it has had no real technical support here at all.

THIS THREAD IS FULL OF IT!!!

X11 is da bomb mate, cards are running 1/3th cooler then scrypt, half the electricity is used...
And for the abuse were suddenly extreme high hashrates pooped up, this is hust because of a stratum abuse where fake shares are being submitted, nothing to do with X11

I understand. I myself am not aware of the full ins and outs of the anonymity level behind CoinJoin, so it seems we're on the same level with that respect . . in that we're both repeating what we've heard or read for the most part.

On the other hand, I am very willing to keep myself very open to the possibility that even intelligent people are suspect to some form of bias, misunderstanding or lack of immersion.

Actually it was that same openness that led me toward reading up on CoinJoin so that I might find differences in how it was applied in DarkSend.

My initial wording was designed to see if you think anonymity in general is a wasted effort, or if you think the attempt at it in DarkSend was flawed.

Anyways, the label "CoinJoin", to me, just refers to any process that relies on mixing transactions through a trusted 3rd party in order to obscure the blockchain . . which I think severely limits most of the claims DarkSend makes due to pre-existing consensus . . but the developers want to give credit to them so it's mentioned anyways. It's their choice to give credit for original ideas.

The general consensus I've seen so far about DarkSend is that it's not 100% anonymous . . and the developers have been very transparent about that fact. Does this mean that it's useless to me? Absolutely not . . and I will try to provide details.

The major part where DarkSend differs is that it offers anonymity based on the cost that someone is willing to pay to remove it.

Every step in the original CoinJoin process now has a potential penalty that will be imposed for improper behavior by the anonymous, trustless third party doing the mixing. The third party is elected pseudo-randomly based on previous block data (We can assume this to be completely random pending someone being able to predict the outcome of the x11 algorithm).

What this means is that by electing a mixing node based on previous block data . . the chance that you are aware you are a mixing node is drastically reduced with every additional node on the network. In this sense, you are acquiring anonymity and removing the requirement to trust based on chance. This, along with penalties, serves very well in that you are effectively minimizing loss by theft of the master node. There are many more details and you are welcome to dig through them when the white paper is updated (unless you want to dig through the thread), or I can try to find them for you.

Now onto the anonymity part . . which still has some issues but is a damn good attempt and only getting better. By increasing the number of stages of mixing to ten, coupled with ip obfuscation granted by TOR . . higher and higher levels of anonymity are being achieved. What this means is that if I, being a business in this example, were to start conducting transactions with DarkSend . . then none of my competitors will be able to discover my wallet address, or my suppliers, or customers.

I can agree that the refinement is far off from business money entering the picture . . but it's a sure start in the right direction.

I guess what I'm getting at is that right now . . this is one of the best visible attempts at anonymity and taking all of this to the next level that I see. To not offer privacy limits the market caps to a small consumer base, one man shops and investors. The former two are not particularly concentrated sources of value to play on for investors.

This isn't an all or nothing attempt . . and it just can't be as simple as that. Privacy and anonymity can only be provided in stages until (or if at all) something better comes along. What I can say for certain is that if it can be achieved to an acceptable point . . then the other details will hardly matter.

Sorry but i am not competent to answer that. But I am confident enough to make that statement because I have read a lot of responses from and discussions between very competent members on this forum, and the concensus is that coinjoin is not, and will not be anonymous enough no matter what changes darksend might have.

Just to make it clear, I don't have any self interest when it comes to darkcoin, and if people want to invest they should do that based on their own judgment and not mine. I have previously warned about numerous scams and this is just one in the line. I dont hold any alt coins now. If i am wrong that would be very good for the community and specially the people buying in now.

Can you tell me why and how it won't happen? Please try to limit the discussion to just that, and lets remove ourselves from other things like the hashing function, amount of coins in circulation, distribution of coins in circulation, difficulty retargeting and mining capability.

I mention earthcoin because everyone can see that earthcoin are a scam now, and the same will be true for darkcoin in a few months. Erthcoin is similar to darkcoin, not technically, but from a community perspective. Both coins rallied the sheeps with a grand plan and fancy words.

Darkcoin claimes to be the first anonymous coin. That is not true and it will not happen. Darkcoin promote itself as a zero premined coin. That is true, but it is designed to be extremly instamined and if you look at the block explorer you will see that the instamine is around 14% of the total coins. More then 75% of the exicting coins is instamined by devs/early adopters. There have also been alot of posts about the x11 and "cool cards" that adds to the hype. Darksend, x11, dgw, zero premine, everything the community preach and believe to be facts are actually not as good as they seem or completely true.

you should tell your roaring gpu's to google search what "FPGA" means

edit:
@rumlazy i have been saying that too for a while and trying to see what people say.
and one guy on another site insisted it's not as simple as that actually.
i can't remember the tech details he posted but he explained that it would not be enough to tack on more memory to asics
because of how the asics work AND how they access and use memory i think.
I had originally said well memory is cheap so seems like an easy issue right ? add more memory then scrypt-n is now asic minable.
but he was rather convincing and sure as hell knew in remarkable detail how asics work under the hood specifically in ways i barely understand.
And the guy said no.. that won't be enough, simply adding more ram.
Either way i don't know but that guy was very convincing with his knowledge of how asics work.

i also am not sure tacking on memory still make it possible to jump from mining scrypt-n to normal scrypt either.
someone from the scrypt-n dev team(s) should address this stuff not me lol
i had thought the same but now i am not so convinced..

I agree this could be very true... however if all coins start to switch to x11... i think they may be motivated to start with x11 asics. What about the 1.8GH and 1.2GH miners on the x11 pools?  do you think it was just a giant gpu farm? let's hope there is not already x11 asics since now someone posted a link to scryptN asics coming out... it seems there would be nowhere left for gpu miners if all these collapse to asic pressure.

X11 is not asic resistance, it's pure marketing hype, but the economic incentive to build ASICs for X11 or other algos (except sha256 & scrypt) doesn't exist, so if the price and the market stay low, there will be never asic.

Ok sure i hear you, but of course not everyone can code a miner that is more efficient than the standard one. Let me ask you this... is it very unlikely or near impossible that someone has coded a more efficient miner? are you ruling out the possibility?

Also what do you say to the summary so far that seems to indicate QRK is as good if not superior to x11 ?  do you disagree with this? do you feel they are too similar to say which is better at this time?

 do you agree their could be weaknesses with having too many algos? is there advantage to QRK's being random over x11 sequential. What are you opinions on this?

I personally though scryptN was more asic resistant than both, however if there really is an asic for scryptN already that is kind of causing me to rethink on that.

Nobody said ASIC proof but resistant, hardware implementation of X11 is possible but more difficult.
The source of the GPU miner is available, those who argue that it is not optimized enough must have (I hope) some programming notions, therefore they are welcome to point out the flaws and correct them.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-sph-sgminer-multi-coin-multi-algorithm-gpu-miner-added-marucoin-475795

Well the title can be altered if it offends you so much.... however be honest for a moment... from what we have come up with so far on this thread do you really think the x11 hype is a bit over cooked??

I mean come on every community is screaming for x11 as if it is a saviour to all of our problems... i hear it is super efficient way more so than anything out there, i hear it is asic PROOF, i hear that it is far more secure against attacks.... these things are looking like bullshit or at the very least blown out of proportion. That is without the fact there could be away to optimise the x11 miner beyond what most people are using.

x11 maybe a better in some ways than some other algos but i do not think it is as good as people are pumping it up to be.

If it really is then i would have gone all out for it to be implemented in on the coins that i contribute hash or time too. In fact i was the first to suggest moving to x11 in some communities. Only when talking to developers have i heard some dislike of it which shocked me since i thought it was apparently the best thing since sliced bread.  Now after hearing a few rumours i simply came here to ask is it all bullshit or is it worth forking a coin over to and having all of that hassle, because if we are doing all this for nothing and we have to fork again to ScryptN or QRK in a few weeks that will be a major waste of money for small communities and a lot of time wasted.