Topic: Things getting interesting once we past $100 - page 5. (Read 17623 times)

You do not "pay" your taxes. The taxes are taken from you. It does not matter if you send the wire transfer yourself. You do that because you want to avoid more severe penalty and direct confiscation and arrest.

As long as property is taken from you under threat of murder (if you try to protect yourself against the policeman, you'll be shot down, so every law is basically a threat of murder), it does not matter how many goodies you get back. Because whether you like the goodies or not, you are not in control of that. If you like your fire department, good for you, but it's not a result of your choice, it is done without your input whatsoever. And whatever "voice" or "vote" you have is not what you were using to establish the fire dept, but it is *given* to you in a limited way to serve the interests of those who define how to use the budget.

If this situation does not bother you, then why don't you allow me to unilaterally manage your money and buy you stuff without asking you first? If you don't want to give me such right, then why do you allow such right for gov, even though you never have given it explicitly? This just seems illogical.

In the end, being moderate libertarian is like being a little pregnant. Something is either moral or immoral. If you think the idea of gov is morally okay, then how do you draw the line between gov and non-gov? And why the government cannot be absolute? Why democratic majority cannot kill minority? Why certain actions on part of some people are evil (theft, threat of murder), but on part of others are moral (taxation, arrests)?

Knowing the law if your best defense. Also, I'm due to other information I can't disclose, I'm not subject to the full extend of the laws in the US. So I always have a plan B, not that I will need it anytime soon, or at all...
but ultimately, I have an option.

I don't like taxes either, but as far as I know, most Bitcoin users aren't anarchists, they are Libertarians (I'm a moderate Libertarian), so why not pay the tax? The government may be to large, but you are still getting a service and need to pay what you owe.

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and thats why lawyers exist to make sure they don't "wiggle" the laws in their favor.

theres no AML/ KYC for this?

Buy a shitload of gold.
Sell it.

$$profit

Dude... vvic, I completely agree with you.

I understand that process, however, we are talking specifically related to bitcoin. Yes they will see a withdrawal in my account from fiat and if I chose to deposit money back, they will see a deposit back and they can extrapolate the difference from there. Beyond that, it's a big black hole called bitcoin..

ohoho! Don't even get me started WHY I'm pissed about taxes...  This is going to be long post, but with valid arguments. If not, I'm opened for discussion
I so feel you, bro. I so feel you. Some people here say thing like
So I get benefit from taxation. Well, if I could only pay for those things I wouldn't whine at all. My biggest crying are federal taxes. Why should I pay those bastards?
Fire / police dept are payed by state income tax. Roads payed by gasoline tax. I get state sales tax, I get city sales tax. I get property tax. I get vehicle ownership tax (and no, I can't ditch the car, this wild midwest here, no fancy public transportation like both coasts have)
And then I lose $1000/mo in freaking federal taxes. and then I have to pay more at the end of the year. And I am broke all the time, I have no freely available money (just necessities, plus little extra and tons of taxes). So people say I benefit from military. Or states benefit from FEMA (those lousy bastards, I've seen their work)
Well let's see. Let's start with military.  Shit like this was going on forever http://www.wnd.com/2000/10/4314/   crazy overcharges at tax payer's expense. Why? Because people in charge of those contracts are getting kickbacks. Crap like this still going on today. That's just SUPPLYING the army. Then there was that fucking Iraq war. I didn't need that war. That was wasn't to protect the US.
That war simply allowed bullshit like this to happen http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/01/30/iraq.audit/ Just like that. They lost 9 billion. Who gives the shit, it's just some shitty change. Besides I didn't ask for US to destroy Iraq and then rebuild it with MY and other tax payer's money.
Then there is shit like welfare. Those freaking leeches.  I'm not talking about people who really needed it, I'm talking about freaking leeches, welfare queens. Like this one http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/2012/02/20/woman-complains-about-her-taxpayer-paid-rent-free-apartment/  why should I pay for that crap??
Then there is freaking IRS. the most freaking useless dept in the federal govt.  I would much prefer state sales tax and no income tax at all. These bastards are so useless. Crap like this
http://www.forbes.com/sites/janetnovack/2012/04/24/refund-tax-fraud-iphone-feed-identity-theft-by-employees/ IRS doesn't even give a damn about.
The IRS, these dumb f...ks allow crap like this to happen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eQZoXAU7X0
Why care? Why to do anything to prevent this from happening? Why change anything? We'll milk a lot more!
Obama says spending isn't the problem. Of course not!
Speaking of Obama and whitehouse expenses...

Not too shabby, huh? to keep that dog it cots 102k/year. Amazing. Why don't they send it to Korea? They love dogs there   http://whitehouseexpenses.com/?cat=3  not too bad, huh?
Why should I pay for this crap? They sure don't http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/20/federal-employees-who-dont-pay-taxes-would-be-fired-under-bill-that-passed-committee/
So... remind me again, how am benefiting from losing 1k/mo?  And you wondering WHY I DO NOT WANT TO PAY TAXES
 

Can you link a reliable source, like a .gov website that states that social security is voluntary? I'm genuinely interested.

That's how the justice system in the US works... (The litigator has to prove you did something wrong) Not sure where you live but I experienced it first hand and I was actually surprised!

No, i hate roads my comunity work etc should not be spwalling to keep me paying high transport costs, also playing roullete with your life

The energy grid, i could have had any number of alternative energy supplies by now, without the grid

Us army scratch that

Social,security? You mean the sequestered wealth system by carveing back your oppourtunity to work, yeah wish that would go away to

If you do not sell bitcoins, there is no tax event for capital gains. This means you can use it as collateral for loans, for example. There are ways to profit from having bitcoins without selling them.

Lots of tax heavens out there with no capital gain taxes as well.

There are also various trust based offshore structures that could be used for legal tax avoidance.

Of course a lot depends on specific jurisdiction and professional advise could be highly valuable.

FIne by me.. Since they won't be able to prove that I bought/sold at any point and even if they trace where bitcoins are going using the blockchain, they don't know what address is mine or not, therefore, irrelevant. So I can't prove when and at what price I bought/sold and they can't prove it either.
Since they are the ones that have to prove I committed fraud and not me the one that has to prove that I'm innocent, then I win
Obviously I wouldn't want to be in that legal hassle, but it's nice to know bitcoin offers that level of anonymity

um, you know that almost every country does tax capital gains, right?  I mean, profits from BTC investment are taxed as capital gains, aren't they?

Here is a useful capital gains tax calculator.

I'm not worried about the laws that protect people, I'm concerned about the laws that are in place to punish them for tax evasion, which is illegal for most of the middle and lower class.

If you can convert bitcoins into fiat in a tax haven legally, good for you, and go ahead, but for most people here, it's illegal and the penalties are severe.

No, they can't, that's my point, not with the same immunity to US law that you have.

It's irresponsible to make such suggestions when the rules don't apply to you the way they do for most everyone else.

None of that stuff is news to anyone on here, I was referring to your comments on tax havens.