[...] I'm not subject to the full extend of the laws in the US [...]
That's great for you, but not really fair to the people who look at your methodology and think they can do the same with immunity.
Topic: Things getting interesting once we past $100 - page 6. (Read 17593 times)
That's great for you, but not really fair to the people who look at your methodology and think they can do the same with immunity.
Since they are the ones that have to prove I committed fraud and not me the one that has to prove that I'm innocent, then I win 
If that's how you think they work, you're in for a shock.
That's how the justice system in the US works... (The litigator has to prove you did something wrong) Not sure where you live but I experienced it first hand and I was actually surprised!
I don't know what you did that you got off lightly, but if they so much as suspect that you tried to evade taxation, they're gonna throw the book at you. They have all the wiggle in interpreting their laws however they see fit.
and thats why lawyers exist to make sure they don't "wiggle" the laws in their favor.
You have a lot of faith in the fairness of the system.
Since they are the ones that have to prove I committed fraud and not me the one that has to prove that I'm innocent, then I win
If that's how you think they work, you're in for a shock.
That's how the justice system in the US works... (The litigator has to prove you did something wrong) Not sure where you live but I experienced it first hand and I was actually surprised!
I don't know what you did that you got off lightly, but if they so much as suspect that you tried to evade taxation, they're gonna throw the book at you. They have all the wiggle in interpreting their laws however they see fit.
How do I avoid uncle sam to stick its hand in my cookie jar and takes the tax share?
What if I don't report it?
What if I don't report it?
Face to face trades.
Of course, not paying your share into a system that you benefit from makes you a freeloader (or at the very least a leech).
I'm paying my share to the system I benefitted from, BTC that is. I didn't benefit from USD.
/devilsadvocate
This. What your trying to do is one of the main reasons government is against Bitcoin. Pay your shit like the rest of us and be thankful your in a country like the United States.
I pay my taxes every year, bitcoin however is outside the government control. Worst case scenario I will withdraw in a tax haven account.
Yeah, one used to be able to do that... now not so much. Heard of FATCA?
I have, and I can go around that.
I talked to my accountant yesterday, and he'd already heard of Bitcoin. If you intend to sell for USD you should take note of what price you initially bought for so you can call it a capital gain/loss.
I should take note? So the IRS is going to take my word for it?
I can easily say I bought at 72 and sold at 73.5
FIne by me.. Since they won't be able to prove that I bought/sold at any point and even if they trace where bitcoins are going using the blockchain, they don't know what address is mine or not, therefore, irrelevant. So I can't prove when and at what price I bought/sold and they can't prove it either.
Since they are the ones that have to prove I committed fraud and not me the one that has to prove that I'm innocent, then I win
Obviously I wouldn't want to be in that legal hassle, but it's nice to know bitcoin offers that level of anonymity
IRS audits on individuals aren't usually about fraud - they're more about making sure you're paying all the taxes you actually owe. Sometimes they can reveal true fraud, but most of the time, they just find a bunch of accidentally unreported income and fine you for it.
I understand that process, however, we are talking specifically related to bitcoin. Yes they will see a withdrawal in my account from fiat and if I chose to deposit money back, they will see a deposit back and they can extrapolate the difference from there. Beyond that, it's a big black hole called bitcoin..
I would expect to see changes to this in the future, where they'll want you to report gains/losses on digital currencies through some sort of mark-to-market scheme, but that'll probably be a long time in the future yet, and from what I know, this would absolutely not be required with today's tax code.
I talked to my accountant yesterday, and he'd already heard of Bitcoin. If you intend to sell for USD you should take note of what price you initially bought for so you can call it a capital gain/loss.
I should take note? So the IRS is going to take my word for it?
I can easily say I bought at 72 and sold at 73.5
FIne by me.. Since they won't be able to prove that I bought/sold at any point and even if they trace where bitcoins are going using the blockchain, they don't know what address is mine or not, therefore, irrelevant. So I can't prove when and at what price I bought/sold and they can't prove it either.
Since they are the ones that have to prove I committed fraud and not me the one that has to prove that I'm innocent, then I win
Obviously I wouldn't want to be in that legal hassle, but it's nice to know bitcoin offers that level of anonymity
IRS audits on individuals aren't usually about fraud - they're more about making sure you're paying all the taxes you actually owe. Sometimes they can reveal true fraud, but most of the time, they just find a bunch of accidentally unreported income and fine you for it.
Since they are the ones that have to prove I committed fraud and not me the one that has to prove that I'm innocent, then I win
If that's how you think they work, you're in for a shock.
I talked to my accountant yesterday, and he'd already heard of Bitcoin. If you intend to sell for USD you should take note of what price you initially bought for so you can call it a capital gain/loss.
I should take note? So the IRS is going to take my word for it?
I can easily say I bought at 72 and sold at 73.5
The way I see it, the only way to avoid an additional layer of tax on your BTC earnings would be simply by buying products and services with it. Surely, that may be a bit difficult at the moment, but I'm sure more and more business will start to accept Bitcoins soon.
I talked to my accountant yesterday, and he'd already heard of Bitcoin. If you intend to sell for USD you should take note of what price you initially bought for so you can call it a capital gain/loss.
I should take note? So the IRS is going to take my word for it?
I can easily say I bought at 72 and sold at 73.5
I talked to my accountant yesterday, and he'd already heard of Bitcoin. If you intend to sell for USD you should take note of what price you initially bought for so you can call it a capital gain/loss.
See the FinCEN statement? If you use bitcoin to directly buy things, you don't need to pay anything 
The FinCEN statement does not say that or anything else about taxes. The statement has to do with registration as a Money Services Business.
While the word "taxes" is not used in the FinCEN guidance, the following is stated:
"A user of virtual currency is not an MSB under FinCEN’s regulations and therefore is not subject to MSB registration, reporting, and recordkeeping regulations. However, an administrator or exchanger is an MSB under FinCEN’s regulations, specifically, a money transmitter, unless a limitation to or exemption from the definition applies to the person."
Now, reading further down you see the following:
"A person that creates units of this convertible virtual currency and uses it to purchase real or virtual goods and services is a user of the convertible virtual currency and not subject to regulation as a money transmitter. By contrast, a person that creates units of convertible virtual currency and sells those units to another person for real currency or its equivalent is engaged in transmission to another location and is a money transmitter."
So, my understanding is this:
As long as I stay in BTC world, I'm ok. As soon as I convert my money to USD, and use a US bank, I'm in the system and I am subject to the Bank Secrecy Act.
Oh and you can buy silver and gold direct from a couple websites using bitcoin already - that'd be a good thing to help hedge some of your upcoming wealth.
So now that there's another "bubble" at full speed, I'm reaching a point where crossing $100 will mean that me as well as others are making some serious money (I'll leave up to you to define what serious money is)
My concern now is, what if i want to sell and withdraw the money to my US Bank Account.
How do I avoid uncle sam to stick its hand in my cookie jar and takes the tax share?
What if I don't report it?
What if I transfer small amounts ($1000 at a time ever week or so..)
Any accountants in the forum to help me do the laundry?
My concern now is, what if i want to sell and withdraw the money to my US Bank Account.
How do I avoid uncle sam to stick its hand in my cookie jar and takes the tax share?
What if I don't report it?
What if I transfer small amounts ($1000 at a time ever week or so..)
Any accountants in the forum to help me do the laundry?
Try things like buying amazon gift codes and using that to purchase crap that you would normally buy, thereby freeing up your existing money. Like kleenexes, for instance.. who doesn't need kleenexes? Stock up on crap like that.
Yeah, one used to be able to do that... now not so much. Heard of FATCA?
FATCA would be rendered irrelevant by widespread bitcoin adoption. If the US government tries to crack down on bitcoin with capital controls they won't be able to stop people with significant bitcoin holdings from spending them in other countries. 
@deathcode
Alright dude...for the last time. Coinabul. Check 'em out. You should be able to easily figure it out. Or you aren't as clever as some of your comments suggest.
Alright dude...for the last time. Coinabul. Check 'em out. You should be able to easily figure it out. Or you aren't as clever as some of your comments suggest.
Coinabul has a shitload of scam complaints against them right now. I wouldn't trust them.
So if everyone uses Bitcoin, then how will all the services that are paid for with taxes be completed?
And don't get me wrong - I think the government could easily be 1/10th the size it is now, but I do believe that SOME form of government is essential for maintaining services like fire dept, police dept, roadways, utilities, national defense, etc.
And don't get me wrong - I think the government could easily be 1/10th the size it is now, but I do believe that SOME form of government is essential for maintaining services like fire dept, police dept, roadways, utilities, national defense, etc.
Natural resource taxes, particularly land. You can hide your bitcoins but you can't hide a plot of land. Land taxes also feature negligible deadweight losses and limited maximum revenue, so the government will do less damage and "starve the beast" would actually start working.
Even farther in the future, there are private alternatives for those public goods:
* roads would be paid by tolls
* fire/police would be paid by insurance
* utilities are already privatized in some places
* national defense could be paid by crowdfunding
Those are just off the top of my head - I'd be willing to bet that the market will think of better solutions than us armchair economists can.
Theorizing about the future of the govenrment is permitted but ultimately a fallacy.
That's why I love bitcoin.
I was an early adopter of MP3 technology and I saw how it changed the way we buy/download and listen to music and I knew it was going to be revolutionary from the day I opened WinAmp for the first time in my 486 and it would barely play a 128mbps mp3 file without skipping.
I had the same feeling when NetFlix started shipping movies to your house and ultimately streaming.
I know bitcoin will put a lot of stress in the economy of governments in the future and will force the government to adapt.
MP3 forced the record companies to adapt because there was no way to stop the proliferation of MP3s (I still remember when they were talking about making MP3 illegal)
No government will be able to stop bitcoin. They might be able to stop the exchange markets and ultimately people will rely on bitcoin alone with parallel economies and a black market for exchanges. If a government like the USG tries to stop the exchanges, then all they will do is show the world that they are threatened by bitcoin and the USD will lose a lot of trust, so they will shot themselves on the foot.
How do I avoid uncle sam to stick its hand in my cookie jar and takes the tax share?
What if I don't report it?
What if I don't report it?
Face to face trades.
Of course, not paying your share into a system that you benefit from makes you a freeloader (or at the very least a leech).
I'm paying my share to the system I benefitted from, BTC that is. I didn't benefit from USD.
/devilsadvocate
This. What your trying to do is one of the main reasons government is against Bitcoin. Pay your shit like the rest of us and be thankful your in a country like the United States.
I pay my taxes every year, bitcoin however is outside the government control. Worst case scenario I will withdraw in a tax haven account.
Yeah, one used to be able to do that... now not so much. Heard of FATCA?
Your title is wasting my time,
Why 100$ and not 47$, should simply be "avoiding Tax on USD withdrawal" or something UNinteresting.
Why 100$ and not 47$, should simply be "avoiding Tax on USD withdrawal" or something UNinteresting.
If we hit $100 my btc capital will hit 6 figures. So please do stop reading if I'm wasting your time. Better yet, do not post anything else on this thread. Thank you
Mr just-about-to-make-it-Bitcoin-millionaire, +1 to CleverMiner's post, and you can bullshit yourself as much as you want, but this still does not change the fact that you are concerned about paying tax on your USD withdrawals.
I'm afraid the only legal way to do it is to avoid widrawals in USD alltogether.
One way of doing that is to open OKPay wallet, get their reloadable-MC (make sure it is not US but Euro), deposit your Bitcoin milions directry with them for a small fee, then use your shiny new card to spend your rishes anywhere you see MC logo
Now, can you say "Thank you, gopher"?
How do I avoid uncle sam to stick its hand in my cookie jar and takes the tax share?
What if I don't report it?
What if I don't report it?
Face to face trades.
Of course, not paying your share into a system that you benefit from makes you a freeloader (or at the very least a leech).
I'm paying my share to the system I benefitted from, BTC that is. I didn't benefit from USD.
/devilsadvocate
This. What your trying to do is one of the main reasons government is against Bitcoin. Pay your shit like the rest of us and be thankful your in a country like the United States.
Yeah, shut up slave! You're in 'merica. The government owns all of your profits but graciously allows you to keep some of them. You should be grateful. I mean you could end up in a country where they don't respect your right to own property.
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