Topic: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism - page 18. (Read 33901 times)

Are you seriously saying that you should be able to commit violence on anyone you want without repercussions?

i did not say that. i expect repercussions and thats why i don't do violence(im forced not to do violence, by thread of violence).

I see, if the cops didn't stop you, you would commit violence on your fellow human beings. Only the state cops can prevent you, and if it ain't state cops, you'll go out and commit unprovoked attacks. You suck.

i would not. but i would have a choice(FREEDOM!!!).

Really?

Quote from: kokjo on May 05, 2013, 04:36:51 PM

i expect repercussions and thats why i don't do violence

You just said you would, if there were no repercussions.

FreedomEqualsRiches

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Quote from: FreedomEqualsRiches on May 05, 2013, 04:34:21 PM

Quote from: FreedomEqualsRiches on May 05, 2013, 04:34:21 PM

Are you seriously saying that you should be able to commit violence on anyone you want without repercussions?

i did not say that. i expect repercussions and thats why i don't do violence(im forced not to do violence, by thread of violence).

I see, if the cops didn't stop you, you would commit violence on your fellow human beings. Only the state cops can prevent you, and if it ain't state cops, you'll go out and commit unprovoked attacks. You suck.

i would not. but i would have a choice(FREEDOM!!!).

I will quote you: " i expect repercussions and thats why i don't do violence(im forced not to do violence, by thread of violence)."

what you said is that if it were not for repercussions, you would commit violent acts. No that we know why you don't commit violence, it is evident that there is no place for you in any civilized society.

kokjo

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You are WRONG!

Are you seriously saying that you should be able to commit violence on anyone you want without repercussions?

i did not say that. i expect repercussions and thats why i don't do violence(im forced not to do violence, by thread of violence).

I see, if the cops didn't stop you, you would commit violence on your fellow human beings. Only the state cops can prevent you, and if it ain't state cops, you'll go out and commit unprovoked attacks. You suck.

i would not. but i would have a choice(FREEDOM!!!).

myrkul

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Are you seriously saying that you should be able to commit violence on anyone you want without repercussions?

i did not say that. i expect repercussions and thats why i don't do violence(im forced not to do violence, by thread of violence).

Actually, yes, you did.

pay taxes or be put in jail, not really a choice...
respect the NAP or die, again not really a choice...

they are at least equally bad, and NAP might be worse.

Rassah

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pay taxes or be put in jail, not really a choice...
respect the NAP or die, again not really a choice...

they are at least equally bad, and NAP might be worse.

False comparison. More correct would be

respect government laws against murder, or die, not really a choice...
respect the NAP or die, again not really a choice...

In that case, yes, they would be the same, except that the second doesn't require a government.

i expect repercussions and thats why i don't do violence(im forced not to do violence, by thread of violence).

Which is all that the NAP says and expects of you. So if you are following it already, why are you so against it?

FreedomEqualsRiches

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Are you seriously saying that you should be able to commit violence on anyone you want without repercussions?

i did not say that. i expect repercussions and thats why i don't do violence(im forced not to do violence, by thread of violence).

I see, if the cops didn't stop you, you would commit violence on your fellow human beings. Only the state cops can prevent you, and if it ain't state cops, you'll go out and commit unprovoked attacks. You suck.

FreedomEqualsRiches

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 10

pay taxes or be put in jail, not really a choice...
respect the NAP or die, again not really a choice...

they are at least equally bad, and NAP might be worse.

Not directing ad-hominems at you is becoming difficult.
What you are saying is that someone who prevents you from unprovoked attasks on others (see definition of aggression above) is just as bad as someone who takes your wealth at gunpont (a form of aggression) to feed the poor.

Screw not using ad-hominems. You are both an idiot and a troll, and a deranged freak who wants to make unprovoked attacks on others, as demonstrated by your animosity towards NAP.

kokjo

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You are WRONG!

Quote from: Anon136 on May 05, 2013, 03:44:01 PM

Are you seriously saying that you should be able to commit violence on anyone you want without repercussions?

i did not say that. i expect repercussions and thats why i don't do violence(im forced not to do violence, by thread of violence).

Rassah

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Activity: 1680

Merit: 1035

Quote from: myrkul on May 05, 2013, 12:17:15 PM

It is a moral imperative for me, but there are times when I would, for pragmatic reasons, violate someone's rights so as to prevent greater harm. Stealing a boat to save a drowning victim, for instance. The difference is, I would then attempt to compensate the boat owner for my theft, acknowledging that I have wronged him.

Lots of people would compare taxation to stealing the boat to save the drowning person. I.E. we need taxes to steal from a rich person to pay for food for people who are at risk of starving is sort of the same argument.

This forgets the rather important difference myrkul stated (bolded). It would be comparative if the government then acknowledged that it wronged those rich people and tried to compensate them, but for the most part the government just blames them for what happened, saying they brought it on themselves for being rich, or they could afford it anyway, so it wasn't wrong.

myrkul

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Quote from: FreedomEqualsRiches on May 05, 2013, 04:19:53 PM

pay taxes or be put in jail, not really a choice...
respect the NAP or die, again not really a choice...

they are at least equally bad, and NAP might be worse.

Are you seriously saying that you should be able to commit violence on anyone you want without repercussions?

kokjo

legendary

Activity: 1050

Merit: 1000

You are WRONG!

pay taxes or be put in jail, not really a choice...
respect the NAP or die, again not really a choice...

they are at least equally bad, and NAP might be worse.

myrkul

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

Quote from: myrkul on May 05, 2013, 04:14:14 PM

Quote from: myrkul on May 05, 2013, 04:14:14 PM

Quote from: Penn Jillette

There is great joy in helping people, but no joy in doing it at gunpoint.

but its not at gunpoint.

if you are saying that the state forces me at gunpoint to pay my taxes. i can say that you at gunpoint is forcing me to respect NAP.
and they are therefor both equally bad.

Again, I'm not forcing you to respect the Non-aggression principle. You don't have to respect it. You just have to not aggress against someone. You're equating a mugging with defense against a mugging. You are saying that the man who pulls a gun in defense is just as bad as the man who pulls a gun in anger.

And that is stupid.

He can aggress against someone all he likes, and when he gets killed in self-defense, there will be no penalty on his killer, and some or all of his wealth will go to the poor sap who had to defend himself from the aggressor, up to and including his corpse, which may serve as fertilizer or dog food.

Good point. I just have one complaint:
I don't know about you, but I don't feed my dog trash. Wink

FreedomEqualsRiches

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Quote from: Penn Jillette

There is great joy in helping people, but no joy in doing it at gunpoint.

but its not at gunpoint.

if you are saying that the state forces me at gunpoint to pay my taxes. i can say that you at gunpoint is forcing me to respect NAP.
and they are therefor both equally bad.

Again, I'm not forcing you to respect the Non-aggression principle. You don't have to respect it. You just have to not aggress against someone. You're equating a mugging with defense against a mugging. You are saying that the man who pulls a gun in defense is just as bad as the man who pulls a gun in anger.

And that is stupid.

He can aggress against someone all he likes, and when he gets killed in self-defense, there will be no penalty on his killer, and some or all of his wealth will go to the poor sap who had to defend himself from the aggressor, up to and including his corpse, which may serve as fertilizer or dog food.

myrkul

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

Quote from: Penn Jillette

There is great joy in helping people, but no joy in doing it at gunpoint.

but its not at gunpoint.

if you are saying that the state forces me at gunpoint to pay my taxes. i can say that you at gunpoint is forcing me to respect NAP.
and they are therefor both equally bad.

Again, I'm not forcing you to respect the Non-aggression principle. You don't have to respect it. You just have to not aggress against someone. You're equating a mugging with defense against a mugging. You are saying that the man who pulls a gun in defense is just as bad as the man who pulls a gun in anger.

And that is stupid.

wdmw

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Quote from: myrkul on May 05, 2013, 04:00:34 PM

There is great joy in helping people, but no joy in doing it at gunpoint.

Quote

but its not at gunpoint.

if you are saying that the state forces me at gunpoint to pay my taxes. i can say that you at gunpoint is forcing me to respect NAP.
and they are therefor both equally bad.

You are now arguing that defending myself from your violence is bad.

FreedomEqualsRiches

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Activity: 70

Merit: 10