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Topic: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism - page 53. (Read 33901 times)

kokjo
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
You are WRONG!
Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism
April 16, 2013, 01:16:29 PM
#182
Quote from: JimmiesForBitcoins on April 16, 2013, 01:15:41 PM
Quote from: kokjo on April 16, 2013, 12:40:42 PM
Quote
However, there exists in our minds an imaginary entity called “God,” and this entity is considered perfectly moral. Unfortunately, this entity continually and grossly violates the edict that “violence is wrong” by drowning the world, consigning souls to hell despite a perfect foreknowledge of their
“decisions,” sanctioning rape, murder, theft, assault and other actions that we would condemn as utterly evil in any individual.
christian god? okay... i read on...
Where the heck did you just pull that from?
tha libertard book, that myrkul linked!
JimmiesForBitcoins
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism
April 16, 2013, 01:15:41 PM
#181
Quote from: kokjo on April 16, 2013, 12:40:42 PM
Quote
However, there exists in our minds an imaginary entity called “God,” and this entity is considered perfectly moral. Unfortunately, this entity continually and grossly violates the edict that “violence is wrong” by drowning the world, consigning souls to hell despite a perfect foreknowledge of their
“decisions,” sanctioning rape, murder, theft, assault and other actions that we would condemn as utterly evil in any individual.
christian god? okay... i read on...
Where the heck did you just pull that from?
kokjo
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
You are WRONG!
Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism
April 16, 2013, 01:14:49 PM
#180
ah ha! he needed 3 pages to explain the law of the excluded middle. and now he is explaining(not defining) reality, the differences between subjectivity  and objectivity, and what metematical reasoning is...

the author also seems way too libertarian biased to be having a sane and intellectual discussion with.

so far, this is not a proof, its propaganda(and he knew i would say that, babbling about round vs. flat earth).
freedomno1
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1090
Learning the troll avoidance button :)
Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism
April 16, 2013, 01:04:46 PM
#179
Quote from: myrkul on April 16, 2013, 12:26:35 PM
Quote from: freedomno1 on April 16, 2013, 12:20:23 PM
Wondering if we are the same as the olden days
Then perhaps the liberals now will be the conservatives later with bitcoins
^_^
Meaning that as bitcoin becomes more accepted the conservatives will become more liberal at accepting bitcoin and we will become more conservative on the preservation of bitcoin Smiley
More confusion. I'm going to ban the use of "liberal" and "conservative" in my house for anything other than their literal meanings.

"Apply that butter liberally to the toast."
"Be conservative with that toothpaste, we're almost out."

Well then
Buy those bitcoins said the liberal I will not said the conservative
But slowly as the word of mouth spread those conservatives started to buy bitcoins
While the liberals wanted to save bitcoins Cheesy
kokjo
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
You are WRONG!
Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism
April 16, 2013, 12:40:42 PM
#178
Quote
However, there exists in our minds an imaginary entity called “God,” and this entity is considered perfectly moral. Unfortunately, this entity continually and grossly violates the edict that “violence is wrong” by drowning the world, consigning souls to hell despite a perfect foreknowledge of their
“decisions,” sanctioning rape, murder, theft, assault and other actions that we would condemn as utterly evil in any individual.
christian god? okay... i read on...
myrkul
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism
April 16, 2013, 12:37:53 PM
#177
Quote from: kokjo on April 16, 2013, 12:33:56 PM
Quote from: myrkul on April 16, 2013, 12:29:04 PM
Quote from: kokjo on April 16, 2013, 12:23:47 PM
Ground rule #8
I respect your intelligence enough to refrain from defining words like “reality,” “reason,” “integrity” and so on. We have enough work to do without having to reinvent the wheel.

for a correct proof you should have very clear definitions, this is not. and the author is even telling me that im stupid...

this is gonna be fun.
If you are so bad at English that you think "I respect your intelligence" is telling you that you're stupid, then perhaps we need to break off conversation until you're actually conversant in English.
ground rule #8 is a coward's of saying everything i say from now on will only be vaguely defined. "I respect your intelligence" means that im stupid, when i want clear definitions, its just a more nice way to say it. I want him to piss on my intelligence and give me clear definitions.
If you want clear definitions of the words he uses, consult a dictionary. As he said, "We have enough work to do without having to reinvent the wheel."
yolo2222
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism
April 16, 2013, 12:35:51 PM
#176
Americans?  Huh Roll Eyes Grin
kokjo
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
You are WRONG!
Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism
April 16, 2013, 12:33:56 PM
#175
Quote from: myrkul on April 16, 2013, 12:29:04 PM
Quote from: kokjo on April 16, 2013, 12:23:47 PM
Ground rule #8
I respect your intelligence enough to refrain from defining words like “reality,” “reason,” “integrity” and so on. We have enough work to do without having to reinvent the wheel.

for a correct proof you should have very clear definitions, this is not. and the author is even telling me that im stupid...

this is gonna be fun.
If you are so bad at English that you think "I respect your intelligence" is telling you that you're stupid, then perhaps we need to break off conversation until you're actually conversant in English.
ground rule #8 is a coward's of saying everything i say from now on will only be vaguely defined. "I respect your intelligence" means that im stupid, when i want clear definitions, its just a more nice way to say it. I want him to piss on my intelligence and give me clear definitions.
JimmiesForBitcoins
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism
April 16, 2013, 12:30:10 PM
#174
Quote from: kokjo on April 16, 2013, 12:03:53 PM
Quote from: Walter Rothbard on April 16, 2013, 12:03:05 PM
Quote from: kokjo on April 16, 2013, 10:03:04 AM
if the state considers it an aggression, you have violated your own NAP. your own subjective opinion does not matter here, according to the NAP.

You are contradicting yourself with this sentence.  It doesn't matter if the state (or anyone) considers defense "aggression."  It isn't.
define aggression!
Defense is the maintenance of freedom, either on one's own behalf or on behalf of another. Aggression is initiating the use of one's freedom to suppress the freedom of another.

Defense is not aggression.

And we can say empirically that when everyone's freedom is equally maintained that optimal freedom across the board is reached, thereby making the NAP the most efficient method of ensuring perpetually superior conditions for society.

If you don't want superior conditions or freedom, then there is nothing stopping you from volunteering your conditions/freedom to someone else to maintain your desired state. No one is going to come and take you away against your will and put you inside a million dollar mansion.

Now if you come and try to take me out of my million dollar mansion, then in accordance with the NAP, I will defend my freedom against yours. That is completely consistent.
myrkul
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism
April 16, 2013, 12:29:04 PM
#173
Quote from: kokjo on April 16, 2013, 12:23:47 PM
Ground rule #8
I respect your intelligence enough to refrain from defining words like “reality,” “reason,” “integrity” and so on. We have enough work to do without having to reinvent the wheel.

for a correct proof you should have very clear definitions, this is not. and the author is even telling me that im stupid...

this is gonna be fun.
If you are so bad at English that you think "I respect your intelligence" is telling you that you're stupid, then perhaps we need to break off conversation until you're actually conversant in English.

He's saying the definitions do not need to be restated, because you're smart enough to know them already.
myrkul
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism
April 16, 2013, 12:26:35 PM
#172
Quote from: freedomno1 on April 16, 2013, 12:20:23 PM
Wondering if we are the same as the olden days
Then perhaps the liberals now will be the conservatives later with bitcoins
^_^
Meaning that as bitcoin becomes more accepted the conservatives will become more liberal at accepting bitcoin and we will become more conservative on the preservation of bitcoin Smiley
More confusion. I'm going to ban the use of "liberal" and "conservative" in my house for anything other than their literal meanings.

"Apply that butter liberally to the toast."
"Be conservative with that toothpaste, we're almost out."
kokjo
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
You are WRONG!
Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism
April 16, 2013, 12:23:47 PM
#171
Quote from: myrkul on April 16, 2013, 12:18:25 PM
Quote from: kokjo on April 16, 2013, 12:13:41 PM
Quote from: myrkul on April 16, 2013, 12:10:55 PM
Quote from: kokjo on April 16, 2013, 12:05:00 PM
Quote from: kokjo on April 16, 2013, 11:53:58 AM
Consistency is very very tricky and very very hard to ensure. See gödel's incompleteness theorems.
If I show you a consistent, rational proof of ethics, will you accept it?
yes, but you can't come up with one.
Big words, from someone so intentionally small-minded.

http://www.freedomainradio.com/FreeBooks.aspx#upb
book assumes secularism.
Well, you did want rational, did you not? A big bearded sky-man telling you to be nice is not very rational.
but could be true. the world in it self is inconsistent.

Ground rule #8
I respect your intelligence enough to refrain from defining words like “reality,” “reason,” “integrity” and so on. We have enough work to do without having to reinvent the wheel.

for a correct proof you should have very clear definitions, this is not. and the author is even telling me that im stupid...

this is gonna be fun.
freedomno1
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1090
Learning the troll avoidance button :)
Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism
April 16, 2013, 12:20:23 PM
#170
Wondering if we are the same as the olden days
Then perhaps the liberals now will be the conservatives later with bitcoins
^_^
Meaning that as bitcoin becomes more accepted the conservatives will become more liberal at accepting bitcoin and we will become more conservative on the preservation of bitcoin Smiley
myrkul
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism
April 16, 2013, 12:18:25 PM
#169
Quote from: kokjo on April 16, 2013, 12:13:41 PM
Quote from: myrkul on April 16, 2013, 12:10:55 PM
Quote from: kokjo on April 16, 2013, 12:05:00 PM
Quote from: kokjo on April 16, 2013, 11:53:58 AM
Consistency is very very tricky and very very hard to ensure. See gödel's incompleteness theorems.
If I show you a consistent, rational proof of ethics, will you accept it?
yes, but you can't come up with one.
Big words, from someone so intentionally small-minded.

http://www.freedomainradio.com/FreeBooks.aspx#upb
book assumes secularism.
Well, you did want rational, did you not? A big bearded sky-man telling you to be nice is not very rational.
kokjo
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
You are WRONG!
Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism
April 16, 2013, 12:13:41 PM
#168
Quote from: myrkul on April 16, 2013, 12:10:55 PM
Quote from: kokjo on April 16, 2013, 12:05:00 PM
Quote from: kokjo on April 16, 2013, 11:53:58 AM
Consistency is very very tricky and very very hard to ensure. See gödel's incompleteness theorems.
If I show you a consistent, rational proof of ethics, will you accept it?
yes, but you can't come up with one.
Big words, from someone so intentionally small-minded.

http://www.freedomainradio.com/FreeBooks.aspx#upb
book assumes secularism.
myrkul
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism
April 16, 2013, 12:10:55 PM
#167
Quote from: kokjo on April 16, 2013, 12:05:00 PM
Quote from: kokjo on April 16, 2013, 11:53:58 AM
Consistency is very very tricky and very very hard to ensure. See gödel's incompleteness theorems.
If I show you a consistent, rational proof of ethics, will you accept it?
yes, but you can't come up with one.
Big words, from someone so intentionally small-minded.

http://www.freedomainradio.com/FreeBooks.aspx#upb
Quote from: kokjo on April 16, 2013, 12:05:00 PM
Quote from: kokjo on April 16, 2013, 12:00:51 PM
Quote from: myrkul on April 16, 2013, 11:58:21 AM
Quote from: kokjo on April 16, 2013, 11:55:14 AM
Not all slaves wants to be free.
You are a fine example of this fact. You're fighting very hard not to be free.
oh. i want to.
 im fighting for all them who does not want to, but you are trying to force freedom upon.
Nobody is forcing freedom on anyone.
you are.
Nope, I'm not.

And for that matter, if you're fighting for the oppressed, why have all your arguments been from the perspective of the oppressors?
Walter Rothbard
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
Bytecoin: 8VofSsbQvTd8YwAcxiCcxrqZ9MnGPjaAQm
Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism
April 16, 2013, 12:05:54 PM
#166
Quote from: kokjo on April 16, 2013, 12:03:53 PM
Quote from: Walter Rothbard on April 16, 2013, 12:03:05 PM
Quote from: kokjo on April 16, 2013, 10:03:04 AM
if the state considers it an aggression, you have violated your own NAP. your own subjective opinion does not matter here, according to the NAP.

You are contradicting yourself with this sentence.  It doesn't matter if the state (or anyone) considers defense "aggression."  It isn't.
[/quote
define aggression!

I did. Smiley
Walter Rothbard
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
Bytecoin: 8VofSsbQvTd8YwAcxiCcxrqZ9MnGPjaAQm
Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism
April 16, 2013, 12:05:28 PM
#165
Quote from: JimmiesForBitcoins on April 16, 2013, 11:56:29 AM
Quote from: Walter Rothbard on April 16, 2013, 11:44:32 AM
A true pacifist would have to support the non-aggression principle; pacifism is a superset of NAP.

Consistent pacifists certainly couldn't support the use of force to do any of the things that government does.

There have actually been many great pacifist thinkers who have made great contributions to libertarian thought, such as Leo Tolstoy.
I hear what you're saying, but obviously we'd part ways with pacifists when it comes to self-defense. Therefore I can't say I'd categorize NAP as a subset of pacifism, but rather as a competing philosophy.

To clarify:

Pacifism, as a set of restrictions on one's behavior, is a superset of NAP.  The Pacifism set of restrictions contains all the restrictions of NAP, and more.

Contrast that with the set of Pacifists (people) and the set of people subscribing to NAP.  In this case, it's the other way around.
kokjo
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
You are WRONG!
Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism
April 16, 2013, 12:05:00 PM
#164
Quote from: kokjo on April 16, 2013, 11:53:58 AM
Consistency is very very tricky and very very hard to ensure. See gödel's incompleteness theorems.
If I show you a consistent, rational proof of ethics, will you accept it?
yes, but you can't come up with one.

Quote from: kokjo on April 16, 2013, 12:00:51 PM
Quote from: myrkul on April 16, 2013, 11:58:21 AM
Quote from: kokjo on April 16, 2013, 11:55:14 AM
Not all slaves wants to be free.
You are a fine example of this fact. You're fighting very hard not to be free.
oh. i want to.
 im fighting for all them who does not want to, but you are trying to force freedom upon.
Nobody is forcing freedom on anyone.
you are.
kokjo
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
You are WRONG!
Re: This is the thread where you discuss free market, americans and libertarianism
April 16, 2013, 12:03:53 PM
#163
Quote from: Walter Rothbard on April 16, 2013, 12:03:05 PM
Quote from: kokjo on April 16, 2013, 10:03:04 AM
if the state considers it an aggression, you have violated your own NAP. your own subjective opinion does not matter here, according to the NAP.

You are contradicting yourself with this sentence.  It doesn't matter if the state (or anyone) considers defense "aggression."  It isn't.
define aggression!
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